Ranger DPS (vs Rogue too!)

Well, the thing about that would be- a rogue could be the only one able to craft augs, but anyone could be able to add them to their weapons- like searfires and mages.

That would nullify the reasoning in the implementation of the poison augs though, sadly.

Maybe Rogue/Bard usable only, but then you still have the problem of 2 classes would be meh-ish.

Poison Augs would be an okay idea. But I really think that the PoP method of poisons, ie. a buff slot, would probably be the most feasible and comprehensive solution, sadly.
 
What about no drop, no rent poison augments that are crafted by rogues, while adding a poison augment slot to rogue daggers/weapons?
 
What about making this not so complicated and just upping rogue damage and/or lowering ranger damage a tad?

Tho tbh poisons would be cool.
 
Mythryn said:
What about no drop, no rent poison augments that are crafted by rogues, while adding a poison augment slot to rogue daggers/weapons?
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What you could do is actually just make the augs Rog only and avert specifying which weapons rogues can poison.
But that's what iaeolan was saying in how all that work for one class is sorta eh.
 
rogues could be given tripple attack, this would give an increase in stable, reliable, sustained dps without giving an increase to the spikey unreliable dps from backstabs.


edit1: and if it is possible to impliment, I could see this being muche easier to impliment than other suggestions.

edit2: or the return of double backstab
 
Tryfaen said:
rogues could be given triple attack, this would give an increase in stable, reliable, sustained dps without giving an increase to the spikey unreliable dps from backstabs.
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Wouldn't this result in a ridiculous incease in dps?
 
Slippers1 said:
Wouldn't this result in a ridiculous incease in dps?
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thats what I heard but i dont know how much triple attack adds and the frequency of it happening can be changed(wiz changed ranger tripple attack chance last time he rebalanced them)

my dps from auto attack is like 110 from the front(warriorish) and 220 from behind so a 25% auto atack dps increase from triple attack would bring up my auto attack dps to 275.

a total of 50dps increase at the very high end and i would assume less of an increase for each lower tier


note: Auto attack currently does between 20% and 30% of my total dps per hand
 
Tryfaen said:
rogues could be given tripple attack, this would give an increase in stable, reliable, sustained dps without giving an increase to the spikey unreliable dps from backstabs.
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tbh, speaking as a monk, I'd rather you know, our one class exclusive melee bonus (that is no longer classes exclusive because it already given to rangers) not be handed out to every melee class. Thats just me though, you know. And every other monk on the server.
 
Cinn said:
tbh, speaking as a monk, I'd rather you know, our one class exclusive melee bonus (that is no longer classes exclusive because it already given to rangers) not be handed out to every melee class. Thats just me though, you know. And every other monk on the server.
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Obviously it's not class exclusive, then, so this argument is pointless. It's also a bit hysterical ("rogues" are not "every melee class").
 
rab said:
Obviously it's not class exclusive, then, so this argument is pointless. It's also a bit hysterical ("rogues" are not "every melee class").
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a bit. Whenever a melee class has issues it seems the magic solution is just "throw tripple attack to them". It used to be a monk class only feature. When you start giving it to every other melee, what are monks left with? Flying Kick? lawl.

Anyway, I'm not overly concerned. I would just like for rogues to actually be balanced using their own skills rather then drawing from other classes abilities.
 
Cinn said:
tbh, speaking as a monk, I'd rather you know, our one class exclusive melee bonus (that is no longer classes exclusive because it already given to rangers) not be handed out to every melee class. Thats just me though, you know. And every other monk on the server.
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I thought monks were the only class that did not get a defensive penalty for using aggressive stance?
 
Garluk said:
I thought monks were the only class that did not get a defensive penalty for using aggressive stance?
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mm. Not that im aware of. We do however get an innate avoidance mod as long as we stay under our weight limit. Which I suppose could be looked at as a class defining ability. I was speaking more along the lines of offensive melee dps orriented skills however.

Anyway. I dont want to derail this thread into a monk discussion. I just hope theres a way to balance rogues without having to give them tripple attack.
 
It bothers me that there is a DROPPABLE 17 dmg poker and the best raid dropped poker is ALSO 17 dmg. IMO, the Thaz poker should be 18 dmg and maybe the one from CoD, too. That change alone would pretty much balance rogue DPS.
 
Would it fix the dps problem? I am honestly wondering, as I dont know how the extra 1 dmg would alter the damage output. It seems odd that 1dmg on a dagger would make the difference up, could anyone crunch the numbers?
 
JDJersey said:
Would it fix the dps problem? I am honestly wondering, as I dont know how the extra 1 dmg would alter the damage output. It seems odd that 1dmg on a dagger would make the difference up, could anyone crunch the numbers?
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each point increases max noncrit default style BS by 300 or so*


*I used my roguesense to come up with the number above. i did not consult my logs for it so it could be way off.
 
Another idea could be upping throwing dagger damage to make up where a rogue cant auto attack on mobs, like whirlwind and whatnot. Make better ratio daggers imo, and have poison implemented for them.
 
Garluk said:
It bothers me that there is a DROPPABLE 17 dmg poker and the best raid dropped poker is ALSO 17 dmg. IMO, the Thaz poker should be 18 dmg and maybe the one from CoD, too. That change alone would pretty much balance rogue DPS.
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TM hinted that it was perhaps an itemisation problem causing the disparity at high end. I can't comment on that, but can say that Bloodseeker vs Demonshear (rogue vs ranger CoD weapons of choice) leaves rogues above rangers in the DPS charts at that tier on the majority of encounters.
 
I'd like to see a comparison between Tryfaen and a ranger using Woe, as that's the closest it'd get at the high end currently for DPS comparison purposes. If Tryfaen falls behind the ranger then I may need to tweak the higher end daggers a bit - but as Phlit pointed out - Demonshear is about where it should be compared to the CoD bow, Bloodseeker. The disparity comes from the fact that there's no dagger in IP, whereas there's yet another bow upgrade in Woe.

Like I told Thinkmeats when we discussed this topic, weapon ratio's have to be kept in check, and it's extra tricky for rogues because an extra point of damage on a dagger is quite a bit more backstab damage.
 
Xeldan said:
I'd like to see a comparison between Tryfaen and a ranger using Woe, as that's the closest it'd get at the high end currently for DPS comparison purposes. If Tryfaen falls behind the ranger then I may need to tweak the higher end daggers a bit - but as Phlit pointed out - Demonshear is about where it should be compared to the CoD bow, Bloodseeker. The disparity comes from the fact that there's no dagger in IP, whereas there's yet another bow upgrade in Woe.

Like I told Thinkmeats when we discussed this topic, weapon ratio's have to be kept in check, and it's extra tricky for rogues because an extra point of damage on a dagger is quite a bit more backstab damage.
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so, if giving higher damage pokers in prison isn't an option, and you don't wanna go above 17 damage, then we need other ways to dramatically increase rogue DPS. much much lower delay, poison augs, big proc mod increases?

I don't play a rogue on SoD, but from live, i know how exciting it is to get a new backstab weapon. On SoD, its really really gotta suck to have the same exact damage poker for that long.
 
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