pet 'fix'

luciferblack said:
Well, I guess now mages and other pet classes only solo slightly better than rogues and warriors? :p

Time to go kill light blues guys.

The balance between pet classes and other classes has been a long time coming imo. One player with what is essentially 2 box character was unbalanced.

Nobody likes nerfs, but really all the changes seem to be is bringing them more in line with the soloability of other classes.

Some people complaining about soloing as a 60+ mage should try soloing as a melee post 60. When the best you can hope for against light blues is killing a few an hour, that's not really what I call great soloing ability.
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A tank shouldn't be able to solo as well as a mage or any other pet class; nor should a rogue, or any other melee.

Not unless we can have your hit points and wear plate.

But this is an old debate that goes all the way back to the beginnings of EQ.
 
haxbax said:
A tank shouldn't be able to solo as well as a mage or any other pet class; nor should a rogue, or any other melee.

Not unless we can have your hit points and wear plate.

But this is an old debate that goes all the way back to the beginnings of Game.
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I think you're missing the point. The point is YOUR PET...not YOU is able to play the role of warrior while YOU heal and YOU nuke.

A warrior/rogue/monk can NOT heal.
A warrior/rogue/monk can NOT nuke.
A warrior/rogue/monk can NOT root.

So trying to compare a mage's tanking ability to that of any of those other classes is pretty silly.

Pet classes have essentially had a pocket tank PLUS the ability to heal that tank. That's the issue really. Now I've already said that I think the pet classes should get back some better healing ability for their pets if the tanking ability is reduced. But I don't think pet's should be as good at tanking as they previously had been.
 
Imo I have always felt mages were overpowered, for many reasons but,
With the server being 2.0 and not 1.0, that changes the outcome totally.
2.0 is completely based around raiding really, I think soloing is pretty pointless nowadays,
its alot harder and the exp isnt as good as a group, which now groups seem to me to be
very guild oriented, meaning at least in my case most of my groups come from the guild, not so much due to
the class that i play. I know that is not always the case for everyone, but imo is the tendancy of this game.
so if your unguilded and like to solo, regardless of class its going to be alot harder if even possible than if you do have a guild and group.

A game based around raiding and higher end game needs to be looked at from the purspective of raid role.
A mag has the role or summoning items, which at least in our guild is pretty dang nessesary, but still not
enough to really consider them a complete class.

I dont think it can be denied that mages have been a very powerful class because their pet was a free Warrior basically that it didnt matter if it died like it does to a player char.

I think that for what the game is now mages need to have a strong pet like they had in the past simply because if they dont have a tough pet, a way to lose agro or more damaging spells, pet being the most plausable, they seem to really lack a solid role in the raid setting. I know that looking at classes one on one mags are one of the best(with good pet), but that really doesnt mean much when you can only have a limited amount of them (raids)and they arent really good on raids, cause thier pet doesnt typically take the role of MT on raids and their dps isnt great compared to the other dps classes

Yale
Just my opiniion
 
luciferblack said:
I think you're missing the point. The point is YOUR PET...not YOU is able to play the role of warrior while YOU heal and YOU nuke.

A warrior/rogue/monk can NOT heal.
A warrior/rogue/monk can NOT nuke.
A warrior/rogue/monk can NOT root.

So trying to compare a mage's tanking ability to that of any of those other classes is pretty silly.
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1. I'm using a level 20 pet heal, at level 42.

2. My nukes are so often resisted (even with debuffs) that they're a waste of mana.

3. My earth pet (the one that roots) can't put out enough dps to kill a blue, and my wimpy heal spell can't keep up.
 
haxbax said:
1. I'm using a level 20 pet heal, at level 42.

2. My nukes are so often resisted (even with debuffs) that they're a waste of mana.

3. My earth pet (the one that roots) can't put out enough dps to kill a blue, and my wimpy heal spell can't keep up.
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1. Find a healer to group with, it's what a warrior, monk, or rogue would do.

2. Buy charisma gear

3. You may have to nuke as well as heal then. (See #1 and #2)

As a suggestion for the earth pet's lack of uber tanking now...what about making the earth pet proc a snare instead of a root? That would give mages the ability to pet kite at least.
 
Luciferblack, maybe mages aren't even that superior as what you think they are after all.

You have to time everything, while watching aggro. Mages get only fire and magic nukes, the best ones until archaic being magic, including our minor weak dot and all rains. And yes, mage dps at soloing is usually raining, since the direct nukes draw aggro very fast. You're screwed if the mob is resistant to magic and even more so if it's also resistant to fire. Also, mage root is magic based and usually wears off pretty fast.

The pet does not tank as well as any tanking class and mage pet heals are not enough to keep the pet alive if you are soloing for experience. Mind you, you can't just burn the mob and save the trouble because you'd get aggro pretty fast.
 
1. Find a healer to group with, it's what a warrior, monk, or rogue would do.
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If I wanted to group, I would have played a grouping class.

Besides, I have to go afk too often to group.

Just remove pet classes from SOD, and be done with it.
 
haxbax said:
Just remove pet classes from SOD, and be done with it.
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So because you don't group and don't have what it takes to solo as a mage, they should be removed?
I was pretty crappy as a SK when I made one so they should be removed too
 
Charisma even maxed at around 290ish (though I think I raised ais's to 295 last night. Was tired , dont really remember....still gets resisted. Imagine that. Especially when mobs have high resists. Which alot of high-end xp mobs happen to have. As tinkaa mentioned, and I beleive I mentioned earlier, we only get magic and fire nukes and rains. At a pretty decent level of mage development that I've attained on ais the last fire rain I believe was sirrocco. The last decent firenuke being shock of fiery blades. Leaving you with the following choices on high mr mobs
1) mala, malo and pray for the best
2) leave
3) let pet take care of it mostly

Like I mentioned previously as well, if mobs happen to have both these types of resists high, a mage was fairly useless on them with the exception of pet. Now we are even more useless on these mobs...wheeeeee. But I digress. I highly doubt anyone playing after the healnerf is not nuking btw. Seeing as y'know...you wouldnt be able to actually keep the pet up doing so...and anyone w/a modicum of intelligence would figure that out pretty fast.

On the other hand "As a suggestion for the earth pet's lack of uber tanking now...what about making the earth pet proc a snare instead of a root? That would give mages the ability to pet kite at least." I wholly endorse this product and/or service. Might make him at least semi used now and again. But hardly a balance for the current changes. More of a "man this pet is really fucking annoying" fix.

On timing you really do have to be on your game as a mage. If you are, you can manage it so you hardly ever get aggro, provided you've picked up some handy spells like talok's taunting echoes. Raining totally pwns most of the mage arsenal with respect to soloing, unless you're hitting very tight spots, and/or offrooting adds. Though the max I've seen the mageroot actually last is around 40 seconds.

"
I think you're missing the point. The point is YOUR PET...not YOU is able to play the role of warrior while YOU heal and YOU nuke.

A warrior/rogue/monk can NOT heal.
A warrior/rogue/monk can NOT nuke.
A warrior/rogue/monk can NOT root.
"
Oh and no..I think you're missing the point. A mage

CAN NOT Heal as good as any of the healing classes, mageheals are also far inferior to bl heals in terms of hps healed.
CAN NOT Nuke for as much as a wizard, has no sieve like a chanter, has not int/cha buffs, mez or charm
DOES NOT Do nearly as much sustained dps as a rogue or monk. A mage can run oom...then all the dps they have is pet dps. That generally runs out shortly after the mage runs out of mana as the pet dies.
Does not have nearly the ac, gear, etc as a warrior. Nor might I add are they easily manuevered when tanking to begin with, one of the primary problems with the aforementioned earthpet.

Take a mage without a pet and they're a bit less than half of a class. Thus while a pet unbuffed shouldnt be able to outtank a warrior w/the same hps, it should be able to outtank or at least tank as well as nontanks.


Btw a warr rogue and monk can root iirc w/the clicky earthsplit boots...coincidentally it happens to be a mage root. Also iirc a monk can root through stances. At least i remember something like that.. never played one but remember a monk doing it when I was a lowbie
 
dude, i just want to know, is this going to keep that way? or admins lookin over? cuz as you all said, nobody invites mage for their modrod abilitys and stuff, they rather Rogue/Wiz over us... and there is PLENTY of wizards... and Wizards solo mutch better then mages, Quad Kitting ( 3 in SoD ) , and root/snare and everything else...

i just want to know, to start my Wizard Char, since mage is just too gimped EVEN with a healer.

Mages are picked when there is nothing else avaliable. thats the true.
And for raids, only 1 at raid, tops, for summons.
 
Guys, please try to settle down, I explicitly stated in the MOTD that I had no idea how this would affect balance and that you could expect tweaks on pets.

If they're really that weak now I am of course not going to leave them that way. :psyduck:

Understand that they can't be returned to the state they were at the lower levels, though, because they were simply the best tanks in the game.

Haxbax, get out of this thread with your "SPELLZ NEVER DA LAND RESISTS CRAZY".
 
yerlin said:
Imo I have always felt mages were overpowered, for many reasons but,
With the server being 2.0 and not 1.0, that changes the outcome totally.
2.0 is completely based around raiding really, I think soloing is pretty pointless nowadays,
its alot harder and the exp isnt as good as a group, which now groups seem to me to be
very guild oriented, meaning at least in my case most of my groups come from the guild, not so much due to
the class that i play. I know that is not always the case for everyone, but imo is the tendancy of this game.
so if your unguilded and like to solo, regardless of class its going to be alot harder if even possible than if you do have a guild and group.

A game based around raiding and higher end game needs to be looked at from the purspective of raid role.
A mag has the role or summoning items, which at least in our guild is pretty dang nessesary, but still not
enough to really consider them a complete class.

I dont think it can be denied that mages have been a very powerful class because their pet was a free Warrior basically that it didnt matter if it died like it does to a player char.

I think that for what the game is now mages need to have a strong pet like they had in the past simply because if they dont have a tough pet, a way to lose agro or more damaging spells, pet being the most plausable, they seem to really lack a solid role in the raid setting. I know that looking at classes one on one mags are one of the best(with good pet), but that really doesnt mean much when you can only have a limited amount of them (raids)and they arent really good on raids, cause thier pet doesnt typically take the role of MT on raids and their dps isnt great compared to the other dps classes

Yale
Just my opiniion
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How exactly is 2.0 harder on groups than 1.0 considering the group game was basically not changed at all.
 
I'd absolutely love to have more than 1 mage on our raids. 400+ DPS and rarely going OOM? Yes, please.
 
Well wiz,
for one, The mobs hit harder and in a group at least the ones ive been in, cause we have lacked aux tanks.
I used to be able to easily tank xp group, but as of lately Things I used to kill are killing me in melee, for instance
a light blue rat in DN can outmelee me, when before that was not the case.

I guess simply put the mobs are doing alot more damage.

Yale
 
Aux tanking is a good point - it's probably a big contributing factor to the difficulcy of soloing, particularily since pets are such lousy aux tanks.

I'm gonna go ahead and tweak the formula so it softens the impact on mobs lower than level 59.
 
Wiz said:
Aux tanking is a good point - it's probably a big contributing factor to the difficulcy of soloing, particularily since pets are such lousy aux tanks.

I'm gonna go ahead and tweak the formula so it softens the impact on mobs lower than level 59.
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Well thats nice and all...

I don't think its going in the right direction. Its a bandaid fix... and doesn't actually adress the problem. The problem is the previous pet nerfs that now need to be removed (since the bug fix has lowered pet power considerably).

Again, I say, remove the pet delay (fixed attacks) and anything else that was put in to tone down pets.
 
Set attacks was not a "fix" in any way, pets have been that way from day 1 on SOD.

All the other stuff like haste caps, accuracy penalties and shit has been revoked along with the patch that fixed the half damage bug.
 
Wiz said:
Set attacks was not a "fix" in any way, pets have been that way from day 1 on SOD.

All the other stuff like haste caps, accuracy penalties and shit has been revoked along with the patch that fixed the half damage bug.
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Well, I haven't been here that long... I was only thinking of the differences between SoD and live, guess I just assumed it was a fix... since its different.


Good news on the rest of it... I'll post back on the other threads with new observations after more testing.
 
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