Patch Notes - August 10th, 2021

HEADLINES
  • Shadowknight and Paladin Discipline system rework.
  • Top end dungeon tweaks.
QUALITY OF LIFE - BUFFS
Now that a lot of the foundational systems have been implemented, we have been discussing ways to re-add the quality of life benefits that players enjoy, but within these new systems.

Players have expressed concerns with how variables to raid recovery times clash with the new buff system, the following change is designed to smooth this out.

Currently, buffs do not expire when a player is safe inside a city (eg. Athica while not in combat or PVP); this was a past quality of life addition. We have extended the "safe in city" rule to include areas that allow binding. An iconic example would be the bind location known as "tables" (or table if you're a purist).

DISCIPLINES
A six second lockout timer has been added to disciplines after a player swaps weapons.

TANK REBALANCE
As we move forward, we would like to explain where we see each tank ranked in different categories:

MITIGATION
Warriors would continue to be the best at physical mitigation with Paladins the worst. The caveat being, Paladins will now specialize further in spell mitigation to differentiate them.​
  • Physical Mitigation: Warrior (13%+) Shadow Knight (7%) Paladin (5%)
  • Spell Mitigation: Paladin (7%+)
AGGRO
Currently, the tank single target aggro order is not correct. Warriors are too low due to our weapon balance and Paladins are too high due to Zealous Might aggro multipliers.​
  • Single Target Aggro:
    • Shadow Knight: Single target aggro should be easy and efficient. Other raid members should be jolting rarely.
    • Paladin: Single target aggro should be the lowest of the three tanks. Other raid members should be jolting often.
    • Warrior: Warriors should be between Paladin and Shadowknight aggro, being closer to Paladins. Other raid members should be jolting sometimes.
  • Area of Effect Aggro:
    • Paladin: High aggro on 6+ targets. Easy and efficient to generate.
    • Warrior: Moderate aggro on current target and decent aggro on 2 to 3 other targets. Targets beyond this should produce noticeable aggro loss.
    • Shadowknight: Unbreakable aggro on a single target. Aggro on a second target should be moderate but need to be worked for. Targets beyond this should produce noticeable aggro loss.
SINGLE TARGET DPS WHILE TANKING
Warriors should always provide the largest DPS while tanking. Shadowknights should be second, closely followed by Paladins. Currently Paladins are doing too much single target tanking DPS due to Zealous Might multipliers.​

KNIGHT SHIELDING MASTERY
  • This AA has not been working, it was not adding its bonus to shields for knights (for at least 10 years). It now properly applies its bonus.
BASH
  • The bash damage formula now applies diminishing returns to bonus damage from shoulder and shield armor class as it increases.
  • Using bash currently applies a bonus aggro value that is equal to shield AC; knights receive a multiplier to this bonus value. For this patch, we have increased this multiplier. We feel that bash is an appropriate source for aggro for knights; it scales with level, gear and accuracy. By buffing this source we can spread out aggro generated by more absurd sources. This is one adjustment that will assist with the low level paladin aggro issues we have received from feedback.
WARRIOR
The aggro multiplier of bloodlust has been increased to put warriors in a more appropriate spot for aggro generation. This is an interim fix until warriors receive a full discipline rework.

PALADIN
All Paladin stances have been removed (including aggressive and defensive), and reworked or replaced with Disciplines. We see the Paladin as a hybrid between Warriors and Clerics. Clerics tend to be a bit more melee oriented in design, so Disciplines were also designed to accentuate this. Paladin will be the top healer of the three tanks both while tanking and as a raid utility. To differentiate the Paladin from the Shadowknight when it comes to mitigation, we have further advanced their Spell Mitigation theme. Paladin single target aggro was nerfed, while also increasing their area aggro generation. We have given the Paladin three tools to help with emergencies that arise from aggro:
  • A single target aggro information skill, similar to Jayla's Insight.
  • Fast casting target of target healing spells.
  • A unique taunt skill.
PALADIN DISCIPLINE ABILITIES
Paladins may purchase the following disciplines from the Paladin Guild. Be sure to explore for additional ranks!​
  • Pious Strike - Ranks I to VI. Strike an undead target, banishing their existence from this plane. Has a chance to weaken your target. Has a very rare chance to deal massive damage to your target.
  • Lady's Strike- Ranks I to VI. Bash your target with your shield, dealing physical damage and generating aggro to those around you. Deals additional damage to stunned targets. Requires a shield. This ability should bring low level paladin aggro to values that feel better while leveling. Because this ability is bash damage, it inherits the properties of bash.
    • It interrupts spells.
    • The damage can never crit.
    • Bonus aggro is generated against your primary target using the above BASH rule.
  • Cleansing Strike - Ranks I to VII. Channel a purifying flame into your weapon, striking your target with fire damage. Additional chance to deal a critical strike against Undead. Requires a two handed weapon. Consumes both stamina and mana.
  • Holy Inspiration - Read the tide of battle, gauging how close another player is to pulling aggression off you. Only works if you are the primary aggro to an enemy.
  • Moment of Truth - Ranks I to II. Force your enemy to focus its rage toward you. Only usable in combat. Must be in melee range.
PALADIN DISCIPLINE BUFFS
  • Bastion of Faith - Ranks I to III. The defense of the faithful, granting 3/4/5% melee mitigation and 3/5/7% spell mitigation.
  • Althuna's Fury - Ranks I to III. Faith exudes might! Your zeal carries you into battle, increasing melee damage but decreasing mitigation and aggro. Increases melee damage by 10/15/20%, increases melee damage taken by 5/7/10%, and reduces aggro generated by 5/10/15%.
ZEALOUS/RIGHTEOUS MIGHT REWORK
Due to Zealous and Righteous Might's impact on single target DPS and tanking aggro, these spells have been reworked. Althuna's Fury is intended to provide measured Paladin melee damage, while dissuading from use while tanking. Aggro loss has been distributed to Bash, healing, and Lady's Strike. These new healing spells accentuate the Paladin's healing and spell mitigation strengths.​
Inspire your target's target with the power of faith, healing them and mitigating spell damage for a duration. This buff will also heal them again on their next successful block.
  • Inspire Belief- Target's Target, 287 Base Heal, 1.5s cast, zero recast time, 3.5s recovery, 12s duration, 2% spell mitigation. (Reworked from Righteous Might)
    • Bestow Light - Fade on block, 95 Base Heal.
  • Runic: Inspire Faith- Target's Target, 691 Base Heal, 1.5s cast, zero recast time, 3.5s recovery, 12s duration, 3% spell mitigation. (Reworked from Zealous Might)
    • Bestow Faith - Fade on block, 399 Base Heal.
BLINDS
Blind spells can no longer be overwritten; freeing up a spell slot for some who used two. Paladin blind spells now lower dexterity instead of attack. The dexterity debuff value increases with spell rank. Additional lower level blinds have been added to assist the leveling paladin. Searing light gets a balance nerf as it was out of bounds numerically.​
  • Flash of Light - Decreases dexterity by 5.
  • Glint of Light - A new magic-resist blind purchasable at level 18. Decreases dexterity by 8. Has a magic-resist adjust.
  • Gleam of Light - Decreases targets dexterity by 5.
  • Fervid Light - A new fire-resist blind purchasable at level 45. Decreases dexterity by 12.
  • Blinding Light - Decreases targets dexterity by 16.
  • Wave of Light - Decreases targets dexterity by 10.
  • Searing Light - Decreases targets dexterity by 20. Mana cost increased to 120. Resist adjust lowered to 75. Direct Damage component removed.
STUNS
  • Words of the Righteous is a new single target stun available to Paladins to purchase in late game areas.
  • Descending Judgement has been reworked into Word of the Templar, an upgrade to Word of the Crusader. Descending Judgement provided a lot of a Paladin's aggro while also being predominantly hated by a large portion of developers and players.
HAND OF PIETY
The cooldown of Hand of Piety has been reduced to 20 minutes.​
HEALING AGGRO
Healing aggro generated by a Paladin using single target, self, or target's target healing spells has been slightly increased, outpacing other healer classes.​
DIVINE REFUSAL
The base healing has been increased to 17% (from 13%). Ranks of Divine Radiance further increase this amount. 20, 25, 33, 50%, (from 14, 17, 20, 25%). The AA description has been updated.​
Focuses your fighting spirit, increasing the chance to flurry against undead. Paladins will refuse to die from undead once every 24 hours. Ranks of this AA reduce the cooldown and increase the heal amount of this innate skill.
DIVINE STUN
The AA description has been updated to inform players that this spell generates aggro:​
Training in this ability gives you a new, fast-casting low-resist stun that work even on creatures immune to stun spells. Always generates a medium amount of aggro.
UNDEAD NUKE
Paladins may now learn Banish Undead at level 64. Literally the best buff, so I saved it for last. Nuke on.​
SHADOWKNIGHT
All Shadowknight stances have been removed (including aggressive and defensive), and reworked or replaced with Disciplines. We see Shadowknights as a hybrid between the Warrior and Necromancer classes. Because Necromancers are more spell oriented, Shadowknight Disciplines are not themed around weapon use. Damage Over Time spells were adjusted to play a core role in Shadowknight gameplay. Leech stance has been converted to a short cooldown ability, setting self-healing below Paladins, and above Warriors. A few tools were given to a Shadowknight to address mana sustain, being the cousin of a Necromancer. The mechanics of pet sacrificing should feel better:
  • Instant triggering
  • Failure messages describing when the ability requirements are not met
  • Introduced at lower levels
  • Pet clickies no longer allow for pet sacrificing, being replaced with a class skill
Lastly, a Shadowknight is the undisputed champion of Single Target aggro. Veil spells have been replaced, shifting aggro to new single target aggro tools.

INNATE DOT AGGRO
Shadowknights now have an innate bonus to aggro generated from damage over time sources. Spell casting subtlety for Shadowknights will now also apply to DoT aggro.​
VEXATION OF BLIGHTS
Each rank of this new AA further increases the aggro generated from damage over time sources. This AA also applies a multiplier to the Shadowknight's contribution to DoT Weakening. Excerpt from our forums detailing this mechanic:​
DOT WEAKENING
Weakening effect works by adding up all the damage done to a mob by DoTs in a single tick. For the remainder of that tick, the mob directly deals less damage in melee based on how much DoT damage it is taking in proportion to its HP.
LOW LEVEL DOTS
Low level DoT levels have been lowered to increase usability. New low level DoTs have been added to their repertoire. Adjacent spells shuffled to maintain 1 spell per level.​
  • Disease Cloud - Level 3 (from 5)
    • Locate Corpse - Level 5 (from 3)
  • Clinging Darkness - Level 9 (from 11)
    • Fear - Level 11 (from 12)
  • Fever - New, Level 12
  • Engulfing Darkness - Level 18 (from 20)
  • Heart Flutter - Level 21 (from 36)
  • Virulence - New, Level 30
  • Dooming Darkness - Level 33 (from 44)
  • Searing Blood - New, Level 42
  • Scourge - New, Level 45
  • Boil Blood - Level 48 (from 53)
  • Inflame Blood - New, Level 53
  • Asystole - Level 56 (from 60)
  • Cascading Darkness - Level 58 (from 59)
DISEASE DOT/DEBUFF REWORK
The following spell line has been adjusted and added to. Three of these spells replace the Shadowknight veil line.​
  • Heart Flutter - Duration lowered to 30s, mana cost reduced.
  • Arrhythmia - New, Level 34, 2.0s cast time, 30s duration. (Reworked from Veil of Dis)
  • Heart Panic - New, Level 44, 2.0s cast time, 30s duration. (Reworked from Veil of Marlow)
  • Asystole - Cast time reduced to 4.1s, duration lowered to 30s, mana cost reduced.
  • Cardiac Arrest - New, Level 65, 2.0s cast time, 30s duration.
  • Runic: Heart Possession - New, Runic Two, 2.0s cast time, 30s duration. (Reworked from Veil of Kaezul)
SCORCH BLOOD
A new fire DoT available to Shadowknights to purchase in late game areas.​

TERRORS
The cooldown has been removed from all terrors; freeing up a spell slot for some who used two.​
  • Terror of Gradalsh is a new terror available to Shadowknights to purchase in late game areas.
SHADOWKNIGHT DISCIPLINE ABILITIES
Shadowknights may purchase the following disciplines from the Shadowknight Guild. Be sure to explore for additional ranks!​
  • Meld Bone - Reap undeath from the fading of life, summoning your highest level pet from your spell book. If used on a target that is close to death, the cooldown of this ability will be lowered. Requires melee range.
  • Touch of Hatred - Ranks I to VII. Instill deep hatred upon your enemy, greatly increasing their aggro towards you. Requires melee range.
  • Festering Harvest - Ranks I to VII. Harvest the life of another through a festering touch. The life healed increases with the number of your afflictions on the target. Requires melee range.
  • Deceitful Doubt - Instill powerful doubt upon your enemy, dispelling a beneficial buff with a chance to interrupt spell casting. Requires melee range.
  • Pet: Edict of Pain- Commands your pet to sacrifice itself, imparting its strength to you for a duration.
  • Edict of Pain- A buff granting the Shadowknight a 500/1000 Delay Death life value, 15/25 Disease Resist and 1/2% physical mitigation.
    • Delay Death is most commonly known as "Purple Club", a negative life value that must be exhausted before a player dies.
  • Pet: Grave Pact - Ranks I and II. Commands your pet to sacrifice itself, restoring mana through it's undeath.
The following Discipline skills require ranks in Servant Training to use:​
  • Pet: Noxious Blast - Commands your pet to sacrifice itself, causing disease damage to nearby foes.
  • Pet: Reaper's Touch - Commands your Pet to sacrifice itself, Draining HP from its target and giving it to your group
  • Pet: Ritual of Gore - Commands your pet to sacrifice itself, mesmerizing nearby foes in a spectacle of gore.
  • Pet: Withering Curse - Commands your pet to sacrifice itself, infecting its target with an incremental damage over time spell. This ability counts towards Festering Harvest's heal.
Meld Bone and each sacrifice skill have their own cooldown timer.​

SHADOWKNIGHT DISCIPLINE BUFFS
  • Shadow of Marlow - Ranks I to III. You fade slightly into the realm of dreams, granting 5/6/7% melee mitigation.
  • Putrid Aura - Ranks I to III. You are wreathed in a caustic aura, increasing the damage of all your damage over time spells by 25/50/100% but decreasing melee mitigation by 5/7/10% and aggro by 10/25/50%.
  • Spirit Anchor - Merge your energies with the spirits of the dead, guarding yourself from detrimental mana drains. Mitigates mana drains with a value less than one fourth your maximum mana.
  • Terror Guard - Wreathe yourself in nightmares, enthralling all those who strike you in combat.
FLAYING STRIKES
This AA now increases damage dealt to Ancient and Young races in addition to Humanoid Monsters.​
SHROUD OF THE LICH
Weapon proc moved to slot 5 to allow for more usability.​
UTILITY BENEFICIAL: CONVERSION
Deathly Temptation mana regen increased to 12, health decay increased to 12.​
NECROMANCER
  • Deathly Temptation is now available to purchase at level 40 as a nice step between Call of Bones and Lich.
DRUID
  • Cataclysm mana cost increased.
ROGUE
  • LOIO and Refuge discipline vendor costs have been lowered.
  • A poison vendor has been added to Kelethin, and the poison vendor in The Mountain Crags of Tarhyl has been updated.
  • Nimble Dance duration extended to 10s.
  • Crippling Point now has a vendor cost.
  • Fixed a bug that prevented Concealed Blades AA from working.
  • Gutsy Gambol movement speeds increased slightly. Stamina costs decreased slightly.
  • Wisterol has been re-added to Poison Merchant to allow continued crafting of Savage Frenzy for Marlow quest.
ENCHANTER
  • The duration of the Misdirection line of spells has been doubled.
SPELLS
  • Cleric symbols, Savagery, and Reagent conservation descriptions corrected.
  • Razadian Conservation has been corrected, setting its value at 25%.
  • Flash Powder Ranks I to III correctly state which reagent they require.
  • Flash Powder Rank III now correctly requires a "Flash Powder" reagent.
  • Suffocate, Gasping Embrace, Torment of Gnyrt, Asphyxiate, Chokehold, and Misery of the Swamp spell descriptions updated.
  • Critical Precision spell description updated.
TOP END DUNGEONS

GLOBAL CHARM CREDITS
Initially we only allowed charm credits to drop from enemies with a respawn timer greater than 30 minutes. Based on feedback and additional data, the following changes have been made. A linear drop adjustment has been added because we want to reward more difficult play.​
  • Respawn limit has been lowered to 20 minutes, and lesser charm credit drop chance lowered by 20%. (More zones, less chance)
  • Greater charm credit drop chance increased by 100%.
  • A linear drop adjustment based on enemy level has been added:
    • 20% drop penalty at 55, 33% drop bonus at 65
CITADEL OF THE CLAW
  • Rust Code added for all named.
  • Experience slightly increased.
  • Visiting nobles have a higher chance to rust code named and drop Commander's Orders.
ELDENAL'S MANSION
  • Hybrid-type Rust Code and accelerated respawn feature added.
  • A new visitor awaits your arrival.
BLOOD QUARRY (ROCK SIDE)
  • An additional Rebel Acquisition token quest has been added that involves this area.
  • Rust code added for named.
  • Trash in this wing now drop Yclistinite Bits.
EMBERFLOW
  • The spawn delay on cash named has been lowered to 5 minutes (from 30min)
WEAPON BALANCE
  • Ortananoch's combat innate, Legacy of the Dragonkin, has been altered. Proc rate has been increased, but will fade after five procs. Proc damage lowered to account for a higher proc rate.
  • Entropy's Spine damage proc, Withering Wave, has been changed to a flat damage value instead of a scaling value.
SUNKEN CATHEDRAL
  • Fixed bugs with named mobs spawning - should work normally henceforth.
  • Improved Quest NPC behavior.
  • Wax Fruit increased from snack to meal.
  • Unfeeling alkahest behavior improved.
  • Improved encounter flagging (Thanks Rymy, Marthog, Wuuc, Paxit).
  • Aggregate fungi should no longer fall under the world.
  • Zone quest reward received a bug fix.
  • Tunnel mushroom add spawning frequency reduced.
  • QoL improvements with respect to the amount of items.
  • Revisions were made in the spiral room.
  • Main quest line lengthened a bit - a new bonus awaits for those going all the way.
  • Quest encounter receives rebalancing and items brought in line with the difficulty.
QUESTS
  • A short little quest in Sundered Mountains offered by Freya the Blacksmith that was broken and could not be completed is fixed.
  • Ryzan's Dagger quest which was broken and could not be completed has been fully redone, now accessible by rogues level 60 and above.
  • Previously, killing 6 of 7 required types of stonemites & elementals for the quest "Things that go bump in the mines" incorrectly gave text implying the quest was complete when it was not actually complete. This has been fixed.
  • Gleaming Steel Sword has been added to the Well-Illustrated Treasure Map loot table.
  • Forest of the Fallen:
    • Vaton has listened to reason and will now allow all animal trappings to be done at the same time.
    • Guorth is allowing multiple defenders at once during the Yiv invasion of the Kromtor fort.
    • Gravedigging with Gumdor should work better.
MISC
  • The command system transition is complete. Commands using /cm will no longer work and will display an error
  • Yclistinite Credits can now be purchased in Lake of Ill Omen. Credits are tradable and can be redeemed for their full value.
  • Increased Heart Panic (Previously Veil of Marlow) and Taraztu's Healing Flames drop rates.
  • The Lug Worm has been fixed.
  • The Silent Halls: Soul Hunters of Rajzaa spawns changed to be more dynamic.
  • Cryospine bodytype has been adjusted to 'animal' to allow druid charm.
  • Lifedraw spell proc added to Ghostmetal Shield.
  • Max health of "a faerie trickster" lowered slightly.
  • Rotten Core(s) are no longer stackable.
  • Axe of Continuous Attraction was fixed to prevent a rare but serious malfunction. Thanks Stever for reporting the issue.
  • The Fletching combine to create Quiver of Scornwood Arrows is now up-to-date with the Fletching revamp in a previous patch.

KNOWN ISSUES
  • Archaic: Tarhyl's Raging Curse is currently not functioning correctly. (Fixed)
  • Some disciplines have occasionally been failing to land successfully with an "out of combat" message
  • The new Paladin target of target spells are not landing on Allies. (Fixed)
  • Edict of Pain I is not working. (Fixed)
  • Paladins can target themselves with their damaging discipline abilities
 
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Immac

Developer
If anyone hates having to hit (enter) or ( ' ) before typing # for a command, simply bind your "Command mode, say" (where to find this) to Shift+3 and this may sort of alleviate the annoyingness of the change.

 

Bonk84

Dalayan Elder
Deathly Temptation is currently listed only as a lvl 58 SK spell and needs necro added to it.
 

iBluNT

Dalayan Elder
  • Entropy's Spine damage proc, Withering Wave, has been changed to a flat damage value instead of a scaling value.

It'd be very appreciated now that this proc has been normalized to a flat damage value, that the proc rate be looked at again. 2% is a very low number.
 

Obscenitor

Dalayan Elder
Initial reactions after quite a few hours of playing with the new kit. It's pretty interesting I think and I really like the new runic line, nice flavor. And this is definitely better than the old days of spamming blinds and even more recently the 'set-it-and-forget-it' R2 aggro.

I think the endurance system for Paladins does not feel natural / may need to reconsider ability costs given the length of many fights (10+ minutes). I mentioned this in discord but it probably got lost in the sea of whining, it feels awkward that endurance is just 'another mana like resource'.. I can understand that system for rogues because it is their primary resource.. Perhaps Paladins could instead start at 20 endurance (like a warrior) and gain endurance throughout a fight based on healing? It fits very well flavor / lore-wise with their emphasized role, just not sure how the implementation would work.

Also, I feel like 2 handers have lost their relevancy, I am struggling to envision a universe where you wouldn't use a sword & shield. Before you think I am crazy and say "but althuna's fury"... hear me out.

You won't XP with them because your aggro is going to be far too low, and you certainly can't tank with them.. and in my experience (not sure how Resurgum / DK / others feel) we never bring multiple knights into a raid because they are just far far less DPS than any other option (even an enchanter) and there is no (recent) content out there that requires more than 2 tanks. Althuna's fury is far less DPS than R2 was, and even while it was 'overtuned' a Paladin was doing half the DPS of a true DPS class.

I'll do more testing today and the days to come and will provide more feedback.
 

Tevinter

Dalayan Pious Diety
hoping yellow mana bar doesnt become a thing for all of the endurance using classes.

paladin changes seem really cool. a bit apprehensive on the SK ones but will wait to see how they function in reality before casting and real judgement.

vah sword dropping from WI maps is dope
 

Dev-Cole

Developer
Staff member
Also, I feel like 2 handers have lost their relevancy, I am struggling to envision a universe where you wouldn't use a sword & shield. Before you think I am crazy and say "but althuna's fury"... hear me out.

You won't XP with them because your aggro is going to be far too low, and you certainly can't tank with them.. and in my experience (not sure how Resurgum / DK / others feel) we never bring multiple knights into a raid because they are just far far less DPS than any other option (even an enchanter) and there is no (recent) content out there that requires more than 2 tanks. Althuna's fury is far less DPS than R2 was, and even while it was 'overtuned' a Paladin was doing half the DPS of a true DPS class.
We set the threat reduction/melee reduction of Althuna's Fury so that it might be possible to exp with a two hander at a slight net loss of Melee Mitigation and Aggro.

We also parsed a Paladin with Althuna's Fury while DPSing with a two hander. They will be the lowest of the three tanks. Cleansing Strike cost is a bit higher than average so it will be hard to maintain this for longer fights.
 

Woot

Dalayan Adventurer
Overall really enjoying the Paladin changes. Removal of Zealous Might is a definite DPS nerf, but gameplay is far smoother without having to worry about constantly keeping it up to generate+maintain aggro and trying to weave it in between casts of taunting/healing spells. It also is smoother for paladins hitting higher levels now as there is no longer this strange confusing new mechanic of keeping a short lasting buff up to maintain aggro starting at lvl 55. Making paladins actually able to do something with their heals again absolutely fits thematically and is a nice change. Righeous/Zealous might was for me the worst thing about paladins just because of the extra step of having to cast it and wait to be able to use taunting spells effectively and the mini-game of constantly balancing the random time of when it's going to fade vs. when to recast it vs. cast a taunting spell vs. cast a heal. The spell felt more like a necessary burden than a cool bonus. Removal of this mechanic is a definite quality of life improvement.

The addition of stamina as a resource does feel odd considering if you just keep fighting it just keeps going down until you exit combat for a bit to meditate and regen it back up without any other way to get stamina back. I'm very tempted to just use lower level versions of all the disciplines most of the time to prevent the inevitable empty stamina bar after prolonged fighting. I'd only switch to using the higher level disciplines on nameds / more dangerous encounters so stamina isn't always something to sit and regain back constantly. Perhaps this sort of gameplay is intentional in the design of the disciplines and we should use lower level ones most of the time and the higher level ones only on big fights and that is the way to have effective stamina management? That does sound like a reasonable way to manage stamina use -- decide when to use the lower lvl disc vs. when to use the higher lvl disc to manage stamina. If this isn't the intent for how to manage stamina, as Obscenitor mentioned there should be some way to get stamina back while maintaining a constant flow of combat; the group is going to be continually otherwise ready to keep fighting but has to wait for your stamina to come back to proceed which is a bit awkward.
 
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Dev-Cole

Developer
Staff member
Overall really enjoying the Paladin changes. Removal of Zealous Might is a definite DPS nerf, but gameplay is far smoother without having to worry about constantly keeping it up to generate+maintain aggro and trying to weave it in between casts of taunting/healing spells. It also is smoother for paladins hitting higher levels now as there is no longer this strange confusing new mechanic of keeping a short lasting buff up to maintain aggro starting at lvl 55. Making paladins actually able to do something with their heals again absolutely fits thematically and is a nice change. Righeous/Zealous might was for me the worst thing about paladins just because of the extra step of having to cast it and wait to be able to use taunting spells effectively and the mini-game of constantly balancing the random time of when it's going to fade vs. when to recast it vs. cast a taunting spell vs. cast a heal. The spell felt more like a necessary burden than a cool bonus. Removal of this mechanic is a definite quality of life improvement.

The addition of stamina as a resource does feel odd considering if you just keep fighting it just keeps going down until you exit combat for a bit to meditate and regen it back up without any other way to get stamina back. I'm very tempted to just use lower level versions of all the disciplines most of the time to prevent the inevitable empty stamina bar after prolonged fighting. I'd only switch to using the higher level disciplines on nameds / more dangerous encounters so stamina isn't always something to sit and regain back constantly. Perhaps this sort of gameplay is intentional in the design of the disciplines and we should use lower level ones most of the time and the higher level ones only on big fights and that is the way to have effective stamina management? That does sound like a reasonable way to manage stamina use -- decide when to use the lower lvl disc vs. when to use the higher lvl disc to manage stamina. If this isn't the intent for how to manage stamina, as Obscenitor mentioned there should be some way to get stamina back while maintaining a constant flow of combat; the group is going to be continually otherwise ready to keep fighting but has to wait for your stamina to come back to proceed which is a bit awkward.
If other group members need to stop and med, your down times should coincide. If you add fast med into some scenarios then I think it will end up not being a big issue. I reaaaally like your reasoning with dropping down to lower level sustain abilities. It is something I noticed when I made some of the abilities and wondered if this would become another play style axis concerning disciplines.
 

Dev-Cole

Developer
Staff member
I’ll say this. The entire endurance system is built on a very old model that was customized to work with SoDs old style system. Right now we have a type of hybridization of old styles and new disciplines using this system. I think it is inevitable that once all discipline classes are reworked that this endurance system would need adjustments and features. Off the top of my head, endurance right now has a maximum value (unlike mana). Kind of awkward if you release new, more expensive disciplines and a player’s endurance also doesn’t increase with tiers.
 

Nwaij

Dalayan Pious Diety
I’ll say this. The entire endurance system is built on a very old model that was customized to work with SoDs old style system. Right now we have a type of hybridization of old styles and new disciplines using this system. I think it is inevitable that once all discipline classes are reworked that this endurance system would need adjustments and features. Off the top of my head, endurance right now has a maximum value (unlike mana). Kind of awkward if you release new, more expensive disciplines and a player’s endurance also doesn’t increase with tiers.
You mean, like enchanters barely scale with gear any more after you (staff) butchered them? I think we can all relate!
 

Tevinter

Dalayan Pious Diety
maybe I'm weird but I've always found downranking spells to be a horrible play experience. Using a worse version of a throughput ability you already have or spent a lot of time / progression getting the best rank just doesn't feel good, especially when the only reason you're using it is because you're running out of gas while the rest of your group can play all gas no brakes.
 

Dev-Cole

Developer
Staff member
maybe I'm weird but I've always found downranking spells to be a horrible play experience. Using a worse version of a throughput ability you already have or spent a lot of time / progression getting the best rank just doesn't feel good, especially when the only reason you're using it is because you're running out of gas while the rest of your group can play all gas no brakes.
I thought maybe Shadow of Marlow/Bastion of Faith. Engage with rank 3 bastion, once aux is established run rank 1 (2% melee mitigation loss for stamina).
 

Ceto

Dalayan Adventurer
Initial reactions after quite a few hours of playing with the new kit. It's pretty interesting I think and I really like the new runic line, nice flavor. And this is definitely better than the old days of spamming blinds and even more recently the 'set-it-and-forget-it' R2 aggro.

I think the endurance system for Paladins does not feel natural / may need to reconsider ability costs given the length of many fights (10+ minutes). I mentioned this in discord but it probably got lost in the sea of whining, it feels awkward that endurance is just 'another mana like resource'.. I can understand that system for rogues because it is their primary resource.. Perhaps Paladins could instead start at 20 endurance (like a warrior) and gain endurance throughout a fight based on healing? It fits very well flavor / lore-wise with their emphasized role, just not sure how the implementation would work.
in a duo with a dps class, i haven't had serious stamina issues since the class is largely functional without using any disciplines except for the mitigation one. i don't use the DPS disciplines very often. if the paladin was to be a primary source of dps and not a tank+healer, this would likely be a more serious problem.
Also, I feel like 2 handers have lost their relevancy, I am struggling to envision a universe where you wouldn't use a sword & shield. Before you think I am crazy and say "but althuna's fury"... hear me out.

You won't XP with them because your aggro is going to be far too low, and you certainly can't tank with them.. and in my experience (not sure how Resurgum / DK / others feel) we never bring multiple knights into a raid because they are just far far less DPS than any other option (even an enchanter) and there is no (recent) content out there that requires more than 2 tanks. Althuna's fury is far less DPS than R2 was, and even while it was 'overtuned' a Paladin was doing half the DPS of a true DPS class.
in an exp group, you would want to use a 2handed weapon for dps, but this conflicts with wanting aoe aggro since you can't use bash discipline with a 2hander.
AoE aggro in a group wasn't an issue before because you could R2 and then AoE blind. this alone was sufficient to lock 6 mobs onto you. sure, now you can load the new AoE stun, but even then your AoE aggro still feels like a shadow of what it used to be with R2.
 
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