I don't agree with this from a balance perspective. This is part of being a paladin, the self healing. SKs have superior agro by not even a close margin to every other tank and they also have pretty solid self sustain with lifetaps. If you took away paladins ability to heal while tanking you would end up with a lifetappingless SK. Who would still probably have worse threat.
Pallys and the lacking
- Thread starter Blubuds
- Start date
I don't agree with this from a balance perspective. This is part of being a paladin, the self healing. SKs have superior agro by not even a close margin to every other tank and they also have pretty solid self sustain with lifetaps. If you took away paladins ability to heal while tanking you would end up with a lifetappingless SK. Who would still probably have worse threat.
jew_nose_it
Dalayan Master
I know no one wants this, but why not tone down SK single target aggro to be just above warriors? It seems that if paladins are played correctly they are still VERY viable tanks, but SKs just have less of a struggle holding aggro so they appear much much better because of the ease of which they can hold aggro.
I don't think xardon mean't they cannot heal. I think he mean't that we would get a burst aggro spell that would cost alot of mana, so that it situationally could be used at the cost of healing mana, not healing ability.
Something like.
Crusader's Touch:
Mana cost: 600
Spell effects: Unresistable +1000 aggro.
Cast Time: 1 Second
Recast time: 42 seconds
This would no be able to be cast many times to hold aggro like an SK, or you would lack mana to selfheal to keep up the mitigation, but it would provide that quickaggro if a tank dies, or to pick up an add off a caster or healer or something.
I like the new flash of light change, it definiately has helped, and im excited for my runic 2 and pally bracer. I don't think this line of spell would be used all the time, but definitely would be an interesting concept. Coming from a paladin perspective of course
Something like.
Crusader's Touch:
Mana cost: 600
Spell effects: Unresistable +1000 aggro.
Cast Time: 1 Second
Recast time: 42 seconds
This would no be able to be cast many times to hold aggro like an SK, or you would lack mana to selfheal to keep up the mitigation, but it would provide that quickaggro if a tank dies, or to pick up an add off a caster or healer or something.
I like the new flash of light change, it definiately has helped, and im excited for my runic 2 and pally bracer. I don't think this line of spell would be used all the time, but definitely would be an interesting concept. Coming from a paladin perspective of course
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Titanas
Dalayan Elder
Well don't forget that each tank sorta has their nitch for fights.
Warriors Tank the best good agro over time.
Sk's Tank 2nd best and Highest burst agro
Paladins Tank the during slow sustained or multiple mobs.
SOD is just missing fights that arn't Warrior SK fights.
The only High end Fight I know of and its not even that high end any more nor does the fight even exsist.
Thaz Lower Earth
Where you had warrior/SK Tank the boss till he despawned into the smaller elementals. Then Its the paladins Turn to Aoe agro up all the adds. Really fun fight for me as a paladin to shine.
Warriors Tank the best good agro over time.
Sk's Tank 2nd best and Highest burst agro
Paladins Tank the during slow sustained or multiple mobs.
SOD is just missing fights that arn't Warrior SK fights.
The only High end Fight I know of and its not even that high end any more nor does the fight even exsist.
Thaz Lower Earth
Where you had warrior/SK Tank the boss till he despawned into the smaller elementals. Then Its the paladins Turn to Aoe agro up all the adds. Really fun fight for me as a paladin to shine.
Actually...
SKs have the best sustained and burst agro in the game, its not even close. Not to mention their AoE threat is rediculous now with the new Veil line of spells. Sure paladins are pretty good at aoe threat but SKs can do it just as well now AND its unresistable.
Warrior threat is better than a paladins on a single target, thats it. Monks generate more threat though tbh.
The reality of the situation is that SKs are the best tanks right now, sure there might be some fight in a blue moon where you can prove otherwise but for everything else this holds true.
Also 1000 threat is a drop in the bucket at tier 11+ and giving paladins the equivalent of a SK terror isn't very exciting and blurs the classes.
Your completely right, and I think Bango said it the best, paladin heals, just not as OP as they were 2 years ago.
Nodnal
Dalayan Elder
I think him throwing a bunch of words together that didn't make any sense made me think he was trying to spell something else (I definitely looked it up to see if it fit and I still thought he was trying for another word). Maybe I just think all MMO bosses act that way and they aren't going into conniptions.
*Note: I only have low tier experience.
How can we say whether this is a problem with your dps, or the particular boss, or your class? For instance if your dps blow their loads all over this boss of course you'll lose agro. Or if the boss is near immune to magic of course you'll lose agro. I think as a paladin you should lose agro in those situations.
So losing agro doesn't happen all the time. Hard to come to any conclusion about paladin balance without knowing how frequently this happens. Again, while this is completely subjective, I think that's how it should be. Paladins shouldn't be able to tank every raid boss. They are so incredible at everything else.
I'd like to point out the best paladin on the server has tanked just about every raid boss in this game, so it certainly is possible, though perhaps not easy.
This is a quote from the best cleric on the server
I'd also like to mention that having the best agro is irrelevant in my opinon if the other 2 tank classes can keep just enough agro to never lose a mob to a dps.
This is the most important part of your post in my opinion, and the only part, that if true, would make me believe paladins could use a change:
Is this last quote true? I don't play a high tier paladin but I find this one difficult to believe. Can someone else comment on whether this is true or not? Thanks.
How can we say whether this is a problem with your dps, or the particular boss, or your class? For instance if your dps blow their loads all over this boss of course you'll lose agro. Or if the boss is near immune to magic of course you'll lose agro. I think as a paladin you should lose agro in those situations.
So losing agro doesn't happen all the time. Hard to come to any conclusion about paladin balance without knowing how frequently this happens. Again, while this is completely subjective, I think that's how it should be. Paladins shouldn't be able to tank every raid boss. They are so incredible at everything else.
I'd like to point out the best paladin on the server has tanked just about every raid boss in this game, so it certainly is possible, though perhaps not easy.
This is a quote from the best cleric on the server
You wrote Pally VS SK, and whether you meant it to sound like a class comparison or not that's how I've interpreted it, which is absolutely silly considering you're only comparing 2 aspects of the classes, their damage and agro. While they do get lifetap damage, they also get 10% innate crit over sk's and give their entire group cleansing blows. Though, with spears and lifetaps I would agree that it looks as if paladins are behind in dps.
I'd also like to mention that having the best agro is irrelevant in my opinon if the other 2 tank classes can keep just enough agro to never lose a mob to a dps.
This is the most important part of your post in my opinion, and the only part, that if true, would make me believe paladins could use a change:
Is this last quote true? I don't play a high tier paladin but I find this one difficult to believe. Can someone else comment on whether this is true or not? Thanks.
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Also, I just got done looking at the wiki and noticed all the paladin blinds now have negative resist modifiers. When did that happen? And when did there murk/refuge spells get changed?
Also, Marza you wrte
Thanks,
Moona
Also, Marza you wrte
Can you elaborate on why this is the case? Everything I've seen at low tier 65 and everything I've seen on the wiki suggests otherwise, so I'm genuinely curious to know why this is the case.
Thanks,
Moona
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Nodnal
Dalayan Elder
With the warrior changes some warriors (with this neat OP weapon) are the best tanks in the game (aggro and dps wise), but otherwise SKs have the best aggro in the game and it isn't close. Paladins heal way better than SKs, though, and some fights you can't reliably use lifetap (or cannot use it at all) which makes paladins much better. It is sad that this game makes tanking mostly about aggro (pressing buttons to hold aggro instead of defensive cooldowns is kind of dumb and boring), but that is why most people think SKs are so powerful.
I don't understand why this is used as a reason for SK's being superior. If it takes X agro to keep the mob on you, and SK's get 50X agro, where as a paladin only gets X agro, what does it matter if the SK has 50X or 1,000,000X agro?
Thanks for the reply Nodnal and Draeos.
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