Paladin HoT agro - alternate aggro suggestions

V

Vartenaal

Dalayan Beginner
ok i think as we all know:
warriors - best melee agro
SKs - best ST agro
Pallys - best ae agro....until recently

since agro component was severely reduced on HoT ive noticed that keeping agro is really hard, especially on raid encounters and especially especially those that require some sort of mezzing of adds, just the other night for instance i couldnt even keep solid agro on mirror golem, which is quite easy usually.

so here are a few of my suggestions to allow paladins to still be able to tank and get ae agro:

REMOVE dmg component from ae stuns: Shout of Agony and Word of the Crusader, because as it stands now we have only 1 way of getting ae agro - ae blind, which has a pretty long recast, and thats not enough especially when there are waves of adds, ie taesh golem adds. also if /s 7 lady stance were to be tweaked a lil to up the proc rate thatd be good, but meh really. that style drains stamina waaay too fast and rarely procs even with regen/acumen on it drains sta in like less than a min, while /s 5 lasts about 2+ mins.

also imo recast time on ae blind should be reduced a lil

my 2cps, let me know what you think
 
because ae agro spells are the best agro spells pallys have, regardless how many mobs there are. ST stuns are for quick small bursts of agro and rarely used
 
Uh, blinding light/divine stun for single target agro?

Other than that, if Paladins are having trouble getting AE agro again, a 0 second AE stun with a 12 second recast or so around the 50s might help out.
 
Mythryn said:
Other than that, if Paladins are having trouble getting AE agro again, a 0 second AE stun with a 12 second recast or so around the 50s might help out.
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Sounds kinda cool.




Aggro is still managable but got harder to maintain. What bugs me most about that change is that picking up proxy aggro on passer-bys is way harder now. Especially when you blew AE Blind on inc and then you get 2 or 3 latecomers or mobs stuck in lag.
 
Manluas said:
Sounds kinda cool.




Aggro is still managable but got harder to maintain. What bugs me most about that change is that picking up proxy aggro on passer-bys is way harder now. Especially when you blew AE Blind on inc and then you get 2 or 3 latecomers or mobs stuck in lag.
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So now you're forced to deal with it the same way other classes are? I don't see how thats a big problem. :(
 
Mythryn said:
So now you're forced to deal with it the same way other classes are? I don't see how thats a big problem. :(
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I've said before that the ability to overrule proximity aggro was a neat little niche, even more then general AE aggro. It's not a problem, but since HoTs used to be a tool used for AE aggro like blind and spell I wouldn't mind to get another AE debuff/0s stun/blind/whatever. If that's shot down so be it, can't do a lot to argue it.
 
ya another ae blind spell would be awesome, cause burning wave of light on first bunch of mobs and then being stuck with nothing really blows. and since initial agro is still really messed up its good to have a backup.
 
I kicked the following idea around for a while, it was originally brought up by Tempus.


What about changing paladin aggro spells to be AE-only, give them a single target blind at 65 and adjust mana-costs accordingly? I haven't thought about certain numbers but the idea itself sounds interesting. Paladins would still be able to tank 1 or bunches but they'd blow through way more mana, making SK's more wanted on singles.

At the same time we'd get another boost on AE aggro, with the current recast it CAN get thin with just AE stun and AoE blind at 65.




I might be missing some vital point but atm it seems to be some sort of win-win possibility.
 
single target blind - ftl. takes mana, time and a valuable spell slot. we already get divine stun which is good ST agro. but another AE blind would be good.
 
Vartenaal said:
single target blind - ftl. takes mana, time and a valuable spell slot. we already get divine stun which is good ST agro. but another AE blind would be good.
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What the hell? Its eighty mana, and has a -200 resist mod attached to it. Divine Stun only has a -100 resist mod. Please tell me this is some sort of joke at my expense. Blinding Light is meant to be the Paladin single target agro spell. Why on earth wouldn't you use it?
 
Manluas said:
I kicked the following idea around for a while, it was originally brought up by Tempus.


What about changing paladin aggro spells to be AE-only, give them a single target blind at 65 and adjust mana-costs accordingly? I haven't thought about certain numbers but the idea itself sounds interesting. Paladins would still be able to tank 1 or bunches but they'd blow through way more mana, making SK's more wanted on singles.

At the same time we'd get another boost on AE aggro, with the current recast it CAN get thin with just AE stun and AoE blind at 65.




I might be missing some vital point but atm it seems to be some sort of win-win possibility.
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Ya, this was my brain storm talking with Luas a few days ago. It is by no means anything, but my opinion on the matter. I have not actually looked at the specific spells to see what changes would be appropriate. However, if Paladin's are meant to be light tanks with good AoE aggro control abilities then my theory woudl be to give them only AoE aggro spells, and increase the mana cost over their current single target aggro spells that would be replaced. Pretty much this would make the paladin horribly inefficient at tanking one powerful mob, but really good at rounding up a group of less powerful mobs at all levels.

It just makes no sense to me that if Paladin's are supposed to be the best at AoE aggro, but they don't even get an aoe aggro spell until 60+. This is completely backwards in my opinion. They shouldn't get any efficient single target spells until 60+ and at that I think they should only get 1 or 2 with decent recast delays so that they never approach a SK's ability on one mob.
 
Vartenaal said:
single target blind - ftl. takes mana, time and a valuable spell slot. we already get divine stun which is good ST agro. but another AE blind would be good.
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I have found the problem with paladin aggro.

Seriously though what are you even using your eight spell slots for? When I play a paladin for raids and XP I usually have-
1. single target stun
2. single target blind
3. aoe stun
4. aoe blind
5. whatever I want (undead aoe or usually sss if im lazy)
6. group hot
7. self heal
8. taratzu self heal

But yeah, make sure you are using all the tools at your disposal, even disarm is a little aggro.

Manluas said:
I might be missing some vital point but atm it seems to be some sort of win-win possibility.
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That sounds like a very good way to more clearly define the paladin/shadowknight line, if nothing else. I like it.
 
That's what a Paladins spellbar should look like. As knights, we basically give up most of our spell bar to Agro spells, and the rest to utility. For instance, my EXP spellbar:

1. Terror of Kaezul
2. Terror of Marlow
3. Terror of Death
4. Vortex of Death
5. Wave of Enfeeblement
6. Deflux
7. Shout of Agony
8. Death Peace

I have two utility spells on my bar, Vortex and FD. The rest is agro, or a lifetap. They all cost mana. They all take up a spell gem. But they let me do what I'm supposed to do.
 
Yeah, I'm not seeing much of an argument in this thread other than "I shouldn't have to work to keep aggro because that's what other classes do".
 
1. Group Hot
2. Self Heal
3. Self Heal
4. Root
5. Single Blind
6. AoE Blind
7. AoE Stun
8. Freebie slot depending on what I am doing and in what zone.
 
Manluas said:
[...] What about changing paladin aggro spells to be AE-only [...]
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I’ll admit that I don’t have anything to contribute to this thread relating to balance; I just wanted to say that until I read this something had never occurred to me. A flash of light being PBAoE makes much more sense from a logic / flavor standpoint than having it effect a single target.
 
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