GuiardoTuneweaver
Staff Emeritus
Wesell said:
You've never had a flashlight shone in your eyes?
Paladin HoT agro - alternate aggro suggestions
- Thread starter Vartenaal
- Start date
You've never had a flashlight shone in your eyes?
Wiz said:
I do work for my Agro I stun Everytime they pop I Ae blind every time it's up .. I merlee I taunt I bash .. yet all a rouge has to do is dps .. or a Bst .. I have found it 100 times harder just to hold agro even on a single mob.
yes this is short and sweet atm but when I Get time i will start listing off exspamles.
JDJersey
Dalayan Elder
I think it breaks down to this: If Paladin agro was where it was supposed to be at befor the HoT changes, it means that as it stand now they are deficient. If the HoT changes were made to lessen the agro paladins generate, then they're kind of SoL. Is it either of those, or is it a third option I'm not thinking of?
JayelleNephilim
"Helpy Helper"
JDJersey said:
Considering the class was viewed as lacking (by most) in the first place, I hope to God it's not the latter...
Wesell
Dalayan Elder
JayelleNephilim said:
I don't really think this is the case. Shadowknights protesting pretty loudly recently about their perceived shortcomings when compared to Paladins and Warriors take flack on the forums all the time for their one-dimensionality and supposed inferiority in XP groups.
JDJersey said:
Paladins may well get a boost that leaves them with less aggro generating power than they had before, but more than they have now. It all depends on how Uzzdaar and other Paladins are able to present there problems with the class. It's too early to say at this point as all the "evidence" have at this point are claims that Paladins aggro generation is almost non-existent or one hundred times worse than before, which seems like exaggeration and is hard to take seriously without more information.
If paladins are suppose to be masters of AOE aggro then I think we do need a boost. As a class I still feel as though we are undervalued and have a very limited role. In my opinion we should first give a large boost to the SK line of Hate spells. Returning them to the masters of single target aggro. Then add a new spell to the paladin lineup at 29. The spell would be a PBAOE blind with a large resist modifier and a small debuff. The debuff would need to stack with our 63 blind to have the best effects. The spell Fame of Light could also be changed to a PBAOE with a large resist modifier, increased damage and a hate modifier. Also changing the resist type to Fire would be great.
If the devs want us to be masters of AoE aggro then that would certainly put us there.
If the devs want us to be masters of AoE aggro then that would certainly put us there.
JayelleNephilim
"Helpy Helper"
Wesell said:
I shouldnt have said "the class was viewed as lacking" when I meant (and was preplying to a post regarding) the class's aoe aggro. My bad!
Either way, you are right, they have little to complain about compared to SKs!
ya i have a question Wiz, what exactly do you mean by "work for agro"? when i grp my ae blind and divine stun is always down, so is my hot (now and pre-nerf), as are my other agro spells (normal stuns etc), this is pretty damn mana heavy tbh and it also downs dps/mitigation quite a bit cause i end up casting like 50% of the fight
why would u want to upgrade flame of light? imo its the most worthless spell, especially at the high end game where 1 of your hits easily does more dmg than the spell. if paladins are to have luck staying ahead with ae agro and being the master pros of it imo we should either get another line of ae blind that stacks with the current one or get a boost (smaller than the pre-nerf hot agro) to our current ae blind. also removing dmg from shout of agony would be a good thing, cause 250dmg at 65++ is like 0.00001% hp of a mob and doesnt really do anything, but what it DOES do is break mez
why would u want to upgrade flame of light? imo its the most worthless spell, especially at the high end game where 1 of your hits easily does more dmg than the spell. if paladins are to have luck staying ahead with ae agro and being the master pros of it imo we should either get another line of ae blind that stacks with the current one or get a boost (smaller than the pre-nerf hot agro) to our current ae blind. also removing dmg from shout of agony would be a good thing, cause 250dmg at 65++ is like 0.00001% hp of a mob and doesnt really do anything, but what it DOES do is break mez
Mythryn
Dalayan Master
I think that SoA should keep the DD portion. It's already a great 'Oh shit' spell, and the DD helps with agro. I don't really think it should be used pre-mez for agro, as on mezzed mobs you usually have lots of time to cast your single target agro spells.
Also, Warriors with Foelock currently rock in XP groups, and will get much much better with the upcoming upgrade to their per-hit agro and Advanced Anatomy. The fact that high-end Warriors don't need a dedicated agro weapon should be proof of how good they really are now. (But that could have to do with how terrible agro weapons are, and procs in general [very terrible])
Regardless of those comments, I honestly hope that Paladins and SKs both see more love than what they have now.
Also, Warriors with Foelock currently rock in XP groups, and will get much much better with the upcoming upgrade to their per-hit agro and Advanced Anatomy. The fact that high-end Warriors don't need a dedicated agro weapon should be proof of how good they really are now. (But that could have to do with how terrible agro weapons are, and procs in general [very terrible])
Regardless of those comments, I honestly hope that Paladins and SKs both see more love than what they have now.
I'm pretty sure every tank needs to work for their agro. What was the point in making foelock better? Just "work" harder.
I'm not saying that paladins need/don't need changes, but it is unfair to reduce their agro, then tell them to work harder (unless it was intended that Paladins should only have this post-nerf level of agro).
I'm not saying that paladins need/don't need changes, but it is unfair to reduce their agro, then tell them to work harder (unless it was intended that Paladins should only have this post-nerf level of agro).
wolfwalkerEci
Banned Jerk
ive only had a chance to use paladins since the HoT change went in and all I can say is that I run my groups with an iron fist. I go OOM a lot. I pull 5 at one and I know I will keep agro on at least 4 of them. Seriously It would be cool to not have to work to keep agro but learn to adapt. Im doing just fine as is.
robopirateninja
Staff Emeritus
Vartenaal said:
Casting single target aggro spells while your AOE ones are refreshing is how you work for aggro. Yes, you will have to use your mana as a hybrid tank. Divine stun doesn't even cost any mana anyways, and if it did it would still be worth it to cast it because it helps the paladin do their PRIMARY job, hold aggro on a mob.
Daelius
Dalayan Adventurer
To be honest, i wasn't really using hot aggro as a source of aggro, more to keep the main tank hot'd during big fights. Yes, it did help out but it wasn't my source of aggro. If i needed to keep secondary aggro, i used divine stun or 55 blind, or even an aoe blind to maintain secondary aggro. In other situations, I used aoe blind and aoe stun for aggro. There was only one fight that i felt that i needed to use hots to get aggro, and even then, its because nothing else worked.
I personally would like to see more aoe aggro at lower levels. seeing now since ghots are now null for aggro, lower level paladins have almost nil way to get aoe aggro. And those lower level aggro spells can be on the same recast timer as the higher level ones, so they don't give paladins even more of an advantage on aoe aggro.
I personally would like to see more aoe aggro at lower levels. seeing now since ghots are now null for aggro, lower level paladins have almost nil way to get aoe aggro. And those lower level aggro spells can be on the same recast timer as the higher level ones, so they don't give paladins even more of an advantage on aoe aggro.
Rorne
The sad fish is a reactionary creature; an enemy o
Wiz said:
Oh this hurts Wiz. I am sure it is different for level 65 / 3 billion AA Paladins but at 62 I have to work my ass off to keep aggro, chain casting stun and blind (low level blind since I don't have the mana to chain cast a 80mana spell, even with FT4) and very often all it takes are some luckily damage rolls from a DPS class or a pet proc'ing and I lose aggro. That is as a halfling, with +2% Agression, bashing, taunting, and chain casting two to three aggro spells. Sometimes I can't even talk in groups because I am so busy.
So where how exactly are we not working to keep aggro? I know you probably meant AE taunt more so but lets not kid ourselves, that takes work too.
I experimented on my friend's paladin for quite some time today, and I see no issue using the single target aggro spells to keep hold on single mobs.
Apparently there is some kind of delusion that SK and Warrior aggro is easy to get on single targets. Though we may have an advantage over Paladins in this area, its not like SK cast 1 spell and have permanent hold on a mob, nor can a warrior kick and let foelock keep a mob on him.
The brutal truth is that Paladins had it really good for a long time due to a coding error, and now you can't stand to put a little more effort into it like the other two tank classes have to.
Apparently there is some kind of delusion that SK and Warrior aggro is easy to get on single targets. Though we may have an advantage over Paladins in this area, its not like SK cast 1 spell and have permanent hold on a mob, nor can a warrior kick and let foelock keep a mob on him.
The brutal truth is that Paladins had it really good for a long time due to a coding error, and now you can't stand to put a little more effort into it like the other two tank classes have to.
Daelius
Dalayan Adventurer
No class has it easy when keeping aggro. Paladins included. All three classes have to work on their aggro, so quit with the bs saying that we had it easy. To say that you used a friends pally for "quite some time" isn't a real basis. And were you directly comparing it to your own aggro generation? I just find it hard to believe that one session tells you how well we do aggro.