Paladin Aggro Thread

sorry was still sort of composing my idea while posting this.

"Our place on the tanking tree is solid in a sense that we arent the best and we understand that."
Well at least at one point a developers vision was that all 3 tanks were relatively similar and each tank had their area of expertise. Before the Warrior and SK changes it was as follows

Mini time line

Warriors had the best mitigation.
Shadow Knights had the highest threat.
Paladins had the best aoe Threat.

Inc 1 hander nerf

Paladins and SK's lost a good deal of threat.

small buff to 1 handed damage and 2 handed damage : Still missing threat

SK spell change
Added AOE hate to SK spells and a few other spell changes

Warrior revamp
More damage Huge aggro for single and aoe targets

Paladin changes none if I recall?
*Edit* flame of light threat addition
 
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please delete this thread.

i have given up and no longer care about the issues at hand. I will join the abyss of terrible people playing paladins.
 
I dont remember Paladin aggro being a problem at t9. Then Exo/CW/SB moved into Spires+. FWF died and its t13 dps hang out with T9/10 tanks, and now T9 tanks wonder why they cant hold aggro over the gluth of overtier dps that hang around with them from time to time.
 
Raxton said:
I dont remember Paladin aggro being a problem at t9. Then Exo/CW/SB moved into Spires+. FWF died and its t13 dps hang out with T9/10 tanks, and now T9 tanks wonder why they cant hold aggro over the gluth of overtier dps that hang around with them from time to time.
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please be careful friend. a fall from a chair that high will surely cause death.

issues were presented by paladins of all tiers and i noted it was not an issue until about tier 10+ and before runic 2. it is a small niche market.
 
I remember Lleoc holding aggro very well with his alt Ringa. Meister played Vart amazing, no aggro issues. Sema and Apros held aggro fine before Spires gear/spells. But this was well before the massive increase in t11+ dps hanging out exping. This was even before flame of light was buffed.
 
Most dps didnt even have abyss gear then, whereas abyss gear adds nothing for tanks, so its really just an inflation of general dps imo.

I'm still for helping paladin aggro, I'd like to see something added for aggro on resisted spells, maybe like half normal aggro.
 
Raxton said:
This was even before flame of light was buffed.
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I am sorry but if you think flame of light is a viable source of aggro I now know you have never played a paladin a day in your sod life.


Also had more crap written here but as I stated previously it is not worth the fight. Have a good day sir.
 
I told myself I was going to stay away from this thread and others like it, but ... I'm weak ... sooo weak ;p

First of all, it is well known that paladins are bad at aggro. This is evident by just observing which classes are chosen to tank on raids ... predominantly, if not always, it's a WAR or SK. There may be some argument about mitigation being better, and for warriors it's absolutely true, but from what I have noticed paladins mitigate pretty evenly with SK's - if there is a difference between paladin/sk mitigation, it's minute. So, why don't paladins tank more often? Because dps wouldn't be near as good. DPS has to hold back with a paladin tanking. If they don't, they will be tanking. The only time I tank on a raid is if it's a special encounter (example: multiple mobs being tanked) or the other tanks die (and by the time I get aggro after they go down, even considering I have been stacking aggro the whole fight, multiple people have died).

That said, the aggro issue is NOT all paladin's fault. Most dps classes are given ways of reducing aggro (concus, jolt, fd, evade ...). These aggro-reduction methods are there for a reason. If a dps class takes aggro from a paladin it's likely as much or more their own fault as it is the paladins fault. I have gotten to the point where I almost don't fight for aggro against classes that can drop it completley (necros, monks, rogues). I try a little, but I am not banging my head against that wall ... You don't want aggro, learn to play your class, otherwise, you tank it ... or get a rez, idc. In other words, know what's going on, pay attention! If a paladin is tanking, you KNOW we don't have as good of aggro as the other tanks so step up your aggro-reduction abilities (duh).

That said, I would love to see some aggro added to paladins. Especially single target aggro. I'd like to see paladins at least considered a viable option to tank raids ... I don't care how it's done. The options presented here all sound fine, but if it happens, the methods can be up to the staff to decide. If it doesn't happen, then maybe other classes need to learn how to play their class when a paladin is tanking?
 
Paladins are bad

It's not like the class is worthless, there is something to be said for self heals, but overall they seem to be by far the weakest tank class. Sure, with some great gear and a ton of tomes they will turn out alright, and can certainly tank some things, and can certainly attempt to hurt some things, and thrive in 6 man contnet; but really they are just a class that wasn't good enough to make it as a healer so they tried the tanking and dps life, and didn't care for it.

Now they are just that awkward guy standing in the corner who no one is even sure why they invited to the party. The type of guy who is only good in small groups, not in larger social events.
 
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Salarus said:
Paladins are bad

Now they are just that awkward guy standing in the corner who no one is even sure why they invited to the party. The type of guy who is only good in small groups, not in larger social events.
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Hah yeah pretty much spot on. Lol if only mobs had Death touch we would once again be usefull
 
Ryst said:
That said, the aggro issue is NOT all paladin's fault. Most dps classes are given ways of reducing aggro (concus, jolt, fd, evade ...). These aggro-reduction methods are there for a reason. If a dps class takes aggro from a paladin it's likely as much or more their own fault as it is the paladins fault. I have gotten to the point where I almost don't fight for aggro against classes that can drop it completley (necros, monks, rogues). I try a little, but I am not banging my head against that wall ... You don't want aggro, learn to play your class, otherwise, you tank it ... or get a rez, idc. In other words, know what's going on, pay attention! If a paladin is tanking, you KNOW we don't have as good of aggro as the other tanks so step up your aggro-reduction abilities (duh).

That said, I would love to see some aggro added to paladins. Especially single target aggro. I'd like to see paladins at least considered a viable option to tank raids ... I don't care how it's done. The options presented here all sound fine, but if it happens, the methods can be up to the staff to decide. If it doesn't happen, then maybe other classes need to learn how to play their class when a paladin is tanking?
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The entire purpose of a tank is to hold aggro. Some people get confused about purpose and tools for that purpose and will say that a tank needs to have lots of HPs, ACs, Staminas, etc..., but that is all just junk to help them hold aggro better (because a dead tank holds aggro quite poorly). Basically you are saying what we all know- paladins are not as good of tanks so people need to coddle paladin egos by diminishing themselves (jolting, FD, etc.. = less dps) until they can find a good tank. I am starting to suspect Paladins exist as they do just so jolt, evade, etc... has a justification to continue existing.

Anyhow, you are playing a game based off a game that made the terrible, terrible, terrible decision to have individual classes that are the best at things making everyone who wasn't a sad sack. An argument can be made for the utility those classes bring, but once the group starts nobody gives a shit about how you can port around, quad kite, root rot, or whatever in your free time, we all just hope you go LD so we can get that Cleric lfg in here.
 
Since Nebi bumped this thread.....

Another option. Turning Lady's Protection AA into a Hot Booster. Adding a fraction of the aoe damage reduction to all players effected by the hot. As well as a portion of the agro that player does while under that effect goes to the Paladin. Have the threat based off Total damage and healing so this number doesn't effect SK's and Warriors as much.

This would open up the option to put more then 1 paladin in the raid as they would help with agro and protection of their groups.

Protection of the lady currently: This ability will shield your party against the effects of hostile magic, reducing all damage taken from spells by 40% for one minute.

New PotLady : Paladin's Hots now Reduce spell damage taken by 5% And Also transfer threat of effected group members to the Paladin.

I figure 5% would be an effective number as its 1 hour 12 min Cooldown. Figure 2-3 bosses can be killed in this time span. Boss battle time of about 8 mins total spreading the 40% for 1 min out over 8 mins bringing down the effect to 5% seems reasonable. Though this does not take in account its effectiveness on trash.

This change also address the issue of Clerics having superior AOE healing. If there is a paladin in the group Hotting a Clerics hots will overwrite the paladins. Cleric hots on the MT will also Kill the paladins hot to prevent the tank from giving his threat to the paladin.
 
Something something pet can't tank exp mobs way below tier without a billion heals and can't hold aggro something this thread I am crying in real life
 
Titanas said:
Since Nebi bumped this thread.....

Another option. Turning Lady's Protection AA into a Hot Booster. Adding a fraction of the aoe damage reduction to all players effected by the hot. As well as a portion of the agro that player does while under that effect goes to the Paladin. Have the threat based off Total damage and healing so this number doesn't effect SK's and Warriors as much.
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Amazing Idea! Aggro for 1 minute every 2 hours does sound like a viable solution for paladins.

I think all of your amazing paladin ideas merit their own thread so they aren't overshadowed by other silly issues.
 
Well the idea is to remove the cooldown on this AA and turn it into a passive that will always effect HoT's
 
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