Paladin Aggro Thread

I would vote yes to ANY of the seriously proposed changes/unnerfs. In order of preference:

1) More and/or amped up aoe blinds
2) Implementing zealot's strike line as paladin usable
3) Increasing (or is it un-nerfing) paladin heal agro

P.S. Thanks for even listening. Really. No sarcasm.
 
Personally I think it would be cool if paladins could behave like the Crusader class from my favoritest game ever ever ever (D&D 3.5)...and oddly it would borrow a lot of rogue mechanics.

The entire Zealot's Strike line should be paladin-able.

Give them an innate death-delay similar to the rogue's Sinister Revenge, without the bonus elements (just have them turn into a big shiny avatar of not-dead for a tic or something).

Make their bash or taunt or something 100% succeed if pushed within X seconds of a mob switching aggro to someone else.


If I ruled the world, paladins would be the picture of holy judgement (minor healing abilities as a secondary function with the highest DPS of the 3 tank classes), while SKs would be walking debuff-monsters with multiple stacking nasty debuffs. (Again, to compare to the best game ever ever ever, like a Hexblade)

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For nerds who don't know: The d&d 3.5 crusader basically runs off of healing his self or allies through damage, temporarily absorbing small amounts of damage on a round-by-round basis and using that absorbed damage to increase his accuracy and damage, and being notoriously hard to kill. They also come with several notable abilities to provide incentive to attack them over their allies, such as giving penalties to their opponents' accuracy vs his allies but not himself, or forcing opponents to get their asses handed to them for switching targets, moving away, etc.
 
Crusaders were damn cool, but I found the Hexblade a tad weak. Now, find me the EQ equivalent of Warblade, and I am totally there. Perhaps the abandoned arcane knight/berserker could be revamped to the warblade. :)

On topic: Adding aggro to pally heals is a good way to start, zealot's strike line, or spell line of runic2 (replacing yaulp) would be good also. Or, perhaps a spell line similar to the sk Veil spells (steal aggro from group and give to tank), Perhaps call it Crusader's Call.
 
Maybe just make Zealous Might a droppable spell at level 65. I have no ulterior motive, I have that spell already. It just seems weird to make a game breaking spell that far out of reach from level 65 paladins who want to efficiently tank eldenals or something.
 
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fxattack said:
Maybe just make Zealous Might a droppable spell at level 65. I have no ulterior motive, I have that spell already. It just seems weird to make a game breaking spell that far out of reach from level 65 paladins who want to efficiently tank eldenals or something.
Click to expand...

fuck up shit bro. just trying to tank easy maps ok.
 
Starting to get excited about playing my paladin again. She has sat unused for a LONG time now.

Yes, she was *ABLE* to tank with same tier dps tiptoeing their agro. God forbid I resist or cast any heal spells and the agro would bounce. But SKs could not only cast lots of flavor spells, but also cast a few straight agro spells and afk and laugh at my puny attempts at taking back agro.

I would still take a change in class to a SK in an instant, but now she might get more playtime than an occasional map for my twink.

P.S. Any GM that wants to give me a class change will get much <3<3<3
 
I don't understand how you could make the aggro a spell produces different for each class. If a Paladin casts a heal it should generate the same amount of aggro as if it were a Cleric casting the spell... I want to be confident of my tanks ability to hold aggro, but I'm uncertain about Paladins. Please fix this.
 
I agree with buffing Paladin agro. The fact of the matter, is simply that basically every raid force in the game takes it as a given that paladin agro is the worst of the three tank classes, period. There are other nuances to the paladin class, such as resists etc..

I would think a high end aoe blind + single target blinds should have a better resist modifier, so that resists on agro generation be less of a problem.. its too much RNG for such a basic ability which other classes don't have to worry about.

Secondly, I would think that either increase in agro mod on the blind spells/ stun spells.. and or buffing stance 4. From what I hear most paladins basically consider it useless for increased threat generation?
 
unfortunately i see no increase in aggro since the patch.

<< need to do further testing because kiseble is a jerk and just loves his aggro >>
 
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I'd rather see paladin blinds be changed to jolts and reduce their HP by a lot, and maybe make them really good with bows.
 
Had some Issues this weekend on my Quest to finish my Codex of Power. My paladin on several occasions lost threat while aoe tanking to my druid healer.
Scenario:
Druid hot :tab
Paladin hot, pull 4-10 mobs position /s4 aoe blind: tab
Druid heal:tab 10% of the time he pulls agro
Paladin AOE stun: tab
Druid hot: tab
Paladin hot:tab
Druid heal: tab pulls agro

Repeat pretty much its not uncommon at all that my paladin Drehar (Normaly +10% aggro)
losses agro to my druid http://www.shardsofdalaya.com/fomelo/fomelo.php?char=rolunaan -8% Aggro
In this scenario Drehar is taking retarded amounts of damage and is only able to stay up because while boxing the 2 I'm in sync with hot timers and self heals between heals. I've never seen warriors or Sk's lose aggro under any instance like this.
I would also like to point out if DS adds to threat that I have :
ToLL
Fire Tmap ring
Mantel of the forest
Druid Damage shield
Some times DS potions
 
Titanas said:
Had some Issues this weekend on my Quest to finish my Codex of Power. My paladin on several occasions lost threat while aoe tanking to my druid healer.
Scenario:
Druid hot :tab
Paladin hot, pull 4-10 mobs position /s4 aoe blind: tab
Druid heal:tab 10% of the time he pulls agro
Paladin AOE stun: tab
Druid hot: tab
Paladin hot:tab
Druid heal: tab pulls agro

Repeat pretty much its not uncommon at all that my paladin Drehar (Normaly +10% aggro)
losses agro to my druid http://www.shardsofdalaya.com/fomelo/fomelo.php?char=rolunaan -8% Aggro
In this scenario Drehar is taking retarded amounts of damage and is only able to stay up because while boxing the 2 I'm in sync with hot timers and self heals between heals. I've never seen warriors or Sk's lose aggro under any instance like this.
I would also like to point out if DS adds to threat that I have :
ToLL
Fire Tmap ring
Mantel of the forest
Druid Damage shield
Some times DS potions
Click to expand...

Don't pull so many mobs and you shouldn't have agro problems. If you are pulling 6+ mobs and spamming heals you are going to lose agro I don't care who you are.
 
<Deein_> waldoff how do you feel about paladins and their aggro
<Waldoff> they may need a way to get by better on resistant mobs
<Waldoff> but I think otherwise it is slightly overblown
<Waldoff> but legitimate in that category
<Waldoff> I think healing aggro may be a good way to go
<Waldoff> to incentivize healing
<Deein_> i dont notice huge aggro from healing btw
<Waldoff> because it was near zeroed out
<Waldoff> when it used to be the main aggro of paladins
<Waldoff> group heals used to be *high*
<Waldoff> now maybe they are too low
<Deein_> zaela says he added it to the patch but there was no mention of it. and i dont notice a change really in game
<Waldoff> tweaked it up
<Waldoff> but not much
<Waldoff> which is good
<Waldoff> might needmore


As it stands now still having issues getting aggro. I dont see / understand why paladins arent getting any help. its been a while now and a few threads about aggro issues but nothing seems to be done.
 
Ok yeah I agree this is a bit excessive.Any one able to do this with SK or Warrior with ease as a druid healer. I would like some feedback.

Not asking for easy mode tanking. It just seems like every one wants the tanks to be relatively equal
 
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Titanas said:
Had some Issues this weekend on my Quest to finish my Codex of Power. My paladin on several occasions lost threat while aoe tanking to my druid healer.
Scenario:
Druid hot :tab
Paladin hot, pull 4-10 mobs position /s4 aoe blind: tab
Druid heal:tab 10% of the time he pulls agro
Paladin AOE stun: tab
Druid hot: tab
Paladin hot:tab
Druid heal: tab pulls agro

Repeat pretty much its not uncommon at all that my paladin Drehar (Normaly +10% aggro)
losses agro to my druid http://www.shardsofdalaya.com/fomelo/fomelo.php?char=rolunaan -8% Aggro
In this scenario Drehar is taking retarded amounts of damage and is only able to stay up because while boxing the 2 I'm in sync with hot timers and self heals between heals. I've never seen warriors or Sk's lose aggro under any instance like this.
I would also like to point out if DS adds to threat that I have :
ToLL
Fire Tmap ring
Mantel of the forest
Druid Damage shield
Some times DS potions
Click to expand...

From how hard youre healing it sounds like youve overpulled. get a second healer to alternate heals with. Or limit yer pulls to the same number of mobs that yer ae ability can hit at once if ae tanking harder stuff requiring heal spam.
 
change targets when u redo another ae or else you'll just keep ae'n the same mobs also when pulling more than 6 theres always a possibility you wont be hitting them w/ ae and just need to be good enough to target it quickly and peel itback off w/ single target back before all the high tier stuff we'd still pull rediculous amounts of mobs on paladins like vartenanl and he could tank 20 mobs np being spammed.
 
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Lleoc said:
change targets when u redo another ae or else you'll just keep ae'n the same mobs also when pulling more than 6 theres always a possibility you wont be hitting them w/ ae and just need to be good enough to target it quickly and peel itback off w/ single target back before all the high tier stuff we'd still pull rediculous amounts of mobs on paladins like vartenanl and he could tank 20 mobs np being spammed.
Click to expand...

First Ruins castle in 3-4 pulls
 
I really feel bad about how many spells as a paladin I have that I don't use. Most of them are rarely used and others I just don't touch ever.

With the exception of nadox I never or rarely use these spells:
Spell: Words of Protection
Classes: PAL(64)
Spell Category: Utility Beneficial (Spellshield)
Mana cost: 175 Range: 100 Spell skill: Abjuration
Cast time: 6 seconds AE radius: 0 Resist type: Unresistable
Recharge time: 60 seconds AE duration: 0 Resist adjust: 0
Duration: 150 ticks (15 minutes) Target type: Self Restrictions: None
Reagents:
Not specified
Push back: 0 Auto Cast:
Not specified
Spell Type: Beneficial
Effects (from parser):
Slot 1: Absorb Magical Damage of 500
Doesn't scale with hardly anything. Remedy heals at least 500 for 10 less mana and at my level is around 850 hps

Spell: Symbol of Marzin
HP buff with as easy as it is to get a SB reago that lasts for like 6 hours. Yeah I know this isn't a paladin issue but its still a high level spell I NEVER use. This is n't a great example but just stating what we don't use.

Spell: Yaulp IV
Again another issue with Buff timers and Buff amount restriction. I could use GoE and Yalp 4 thats probably better then Emp. With buff limit this is not viable. Fix maybe make Yalp line a Bard song.

Spell: Divine Favor
Only level 55 but yeah no room for this spell. 150 pt absorb not really worth it.

One fix i thought of was what if we combine Yalp, Divine, words of protection into a new spell line for paladins that is a buff that is a damage reduction for magic and melee. NOT a % mitigation but a damage reduction like -50 damage from spells and -15 damage from melee hits and a few other stats. I think this buff line would fall in line with the utility of paladins being "AOE" tanks

Yalp of protection II: LVL 65
Increase ATK by 30
Increase Stamina Regeneration by 10
Increase Armor Class by 30
Increase STR by 50
Increase AGI by 50
Increase Damage reduction from spells by 50
Increase Damage reduction from melee by 15
Increase Damage Shield by 4
Small aoe melee Hate proc

Yalp of Protection I: LVL 55
Increase ATK by 15
Increase Stamina Regeneration by 5
Increase Armor Class by 15
Increase STR by 25
Increase AGI by 25
Increase Damage reduction from spells by 25
Increase Damage reduction from melee by 7
Increase Damage Shield by 2
small aoe melee hate proc

This line of spells would NOT stack with empower.
This would be the 2.0 Line of yalp spells starting at level 55
Replacing the spell ID of Divine favor



And district is here at my work today I'll finish later.
 
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Titanas said:
One fix i thought of was what if we combine Yalp, Divine, words of protection into a new spell line for paladins that is a buff that is a damage reduction for magic and melee. NOT a % mitigation but a damage reduction like -50 damage from spells and -15 damage from melee hits and a few other stats. I think this buff line would fall in line with the utility of paladins being "AOE" tanks

Yalp of protection:
Increase ATK by 17
Increase Stamina Regeneration by 8
Increase Armor Class by 14
Increase STR by 40
Increase Damage reduction from spells by 50
Increase Damage reduction from melee by 15

And district is here at my work today I'll finish later.
Click to expand...

I believe this is a terrible idea. Paladins are not complaining at taking damage only holding aggro. Our place on the tanking tree is solid in a sense that we arent the best and we understand that.

Holding aggro is something the paladin class should have not be made the best tank in the game.
 
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