Paladin 3rd Tome

Silosobi

Silosobi

Dalayan Pious Diety
Why is a wizard posting this?!?!? I'm just bored and as many of you know I like coming up with ideas for stuff like this. (also one day Grupo!!!)

The situation: Paladins are really lacking in the endgame. They have some very cool features, but a smilar geared SK/war is almost always the preferred tank. I think this isn't widely accepted for a number of reasons: 1) Paladins used to be OP. At some point before I was endgame, apparently pally heals/hots generated agro, giving them way way more agro. Even thought this was removed, the stigma of paladins being amazing awesome tanks is still around to a degree (although it seems to be fading). 2) Knight agro doesn't scale well. Their agro is largely spell dependent and there are very few items/tomes/etc that will increase this agro. SK agro is just so absurdly good that at this point they can still outagro anyone when they try. Paladin agro on the other hand started out moderately good, but by the time DPS is high tier, paladin agro has fallen far behind.

I suggest tome(s) are used to remedy this since it is a problem of the endgame and tomes are utilized more as players approach higher raid tiers (not to mention that class tome 3/4s are only attainable through endgame raiding).

First, I'll suggest some amount of agro is added to the tears of the crusader tome. If it were to simply proc the same agro amount as it is healing the group that might be about right. It could also let a % of the healing create agro.

It might be neat if it was possible to add agro for whatever bonus healing Holy Constitution adds, but this tome already seems pretty powerful to me, so maybe it doesn't need more.

Allowing the 3rd paladin tome to focus largely on agro would be appreciated by many high end players. (dps and paladins alike).

Improved Divine Stun
Each rank adds 150 hate and 25 mana drain to Divine Stun.
Most endgame bosses cant be stunned, and the base agro on this seems pretty small.

Aura of Focused Hate.
Adds a stance which drais stamina at a moderate rate and generates 300/rank agro on all foes on your agro list.
This wouldn't be amazing single target agro, but paladins were always supposed to be great at AE agro from what I understand, so this would at least compete with SK veils.

Tome of hate when you heal
Paladin self only heals produce 25%/rank agro of whatever the spell heals for (or maybe its base?)

Armor of Attraction
Every time a mob hits the paladin, this generates 15/rank points of agro.

As usual, I'm not the expert on agro numbers, so they could probably use adjustment.

Before people say LEARN2CONCUSS, lack of agro is not simply an issue of dps classes de-agroing appropriately. Agro loss mechanics vary by class, but most of them consume mana/time/stamina, and all three of those contribute to DPS. It is almost always better to have higher dps (SK tank), even if you ignore their mitigation advantages. I would like to see pallys gain an innate 5-10% undead mitigation so that they have a situation where they are best at mitigation, but that's an entirely different thread.
 
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Where is the paladin love!?!?

Critical Energy
Whenever the paladin scores a critical heal for at least 2000 health, they gain 1/2/3/4 tics of Critical Energy.
Critical Energy:
200AC, Paladin generates 600 agro per tic on their target, add proc: Sanctify (moderate proc rate for UD assistance but not OP autowin status)

I know this is pretty powerful, but you would need rank4, a high heal crit rate, and burning a lot of mana on targeted heals to keep it up. I also just think paladins really deserve something big because warriors have vastly superior mitigation and slightly better agro, and SKs have vastly superior agro and slightly better mitigation. The main thing paladins bring to the table is heals. In a raid, you can just have someone else tank, and the paladin will have even more time/mana to heal. There are a few 6man where paladin heals are nice, but usually as long as the group healers can keep people alive, a SKs amazing agro and added dps is preferred.
 
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Divine Imbuement

Grants a bonus to the paladin after casting touch of vitality, blessing of althuna, or blessing of malath based on the stance they are in. Buff fades if you switch stances.

Normal (s1)- Increases the amount healed by touch of vitality and etheral cleansing by 15/20/25/30% for 30 seconds

Althuna's Fury/Aggressive (s2/s9) - Causes divine stun to deal 50/100/150/200 damage (scales with tomes etc) and debuffs the mob allowing all players to critically strike undead.

Defensive (s3) - Increase threat generated by the paladin by 50% for 12/18/24/30 seconds

Not sure if this is possible, but it would give the paladin a more active tome, and outside of tanking creates an interesting decision on what stance to use when you are auxing/offtanking/dpsing
 
mr wizard, although i agree that paladin aggro needs a slight boost to keep up with the ever-increasing DPS output, some of your ideas would not work.

adding hate to the tears of crusader would be bad because currently it allows you to burn new mobs that have respawned/continue burning a mob when its getting low HP and the puller goes off to get new stuff. if you were to add aggro to it, you could have entire zones aggro on you.

also the numbers on critical energy are WAAAAY too high. high end paladins have like 60% to crit on heals and have access to triggered heals. i like the idea though, but it needs to be scaled back significantly.

adding some tomes to improve divine stun would be good or adding a "critical" chance to blinds would be cool:

the blinding luminance of your holy valor singes Target's retinas, causing overwhelming hatred. - double aggro ftw
 
Tears would need to just proc on the target being attacked, didnt think about pulling w/ heal agro.

Idk how you get close to 60% without vah, but yea my numbers are probably off.
 
Lots of really cool ideas here!

Lightbringer: Paladin self heals cause a blinding light, damaging nearby foes for 10/15/20/25% (base damage) of the heal. Additionally, critical heals proc AE 1 tic of an overcap 3/6/9/12% slow (with a nice chunk of agro on the slow).

Ignorant Crusader: Stance, each rank reduces the stamina consumption: Reduces all damage effects by 15%. Reduces all healing effects by 20%. Increases all damage to undead by 10% per rank.

Imbue Weaponry: The paladin imbues his weapon with darkness and his shield with light. Add weapon proc: Blinding Darkness (1/2/3/4 procs per minute, before haste) Add bash proc: Glorious Light (10/20/30/40% procrate)
Blinding Darkness: Causes 300 damage, 500 hate, and an additional 500 hate for two tics, cannot be reapplied until the effect has faded.
Glorious Light: Group heal for 300(base) and heal mana by 50
 
Zaela said:
Bastion - increases melee damage and aggro by 2.5-5-7.5-10% for 30 seconds whenever a group (or raid?) member falls below 30% health or dies; if triggered multiple times while it's running, the duration will reset and the effects will be added together. I.e., at rank 1, if one person drops that's 2.5% for 30 seconds, but if another person drops 29 seconds later that's 5% for another 30 seconds, and if 3 more people drop after that 15 seconds later that's 12.5% for another 30 seconds. A character can only trigger this for their local paladin once every 10 minutes to prevent abuse.
Click to expand...

this idea is begging to have an innate death save added to grouped paladins: 5-10% chance to intervene (like the halfling one) and take the fatal blow that would kill a party member, if the party member dies anyway - transfer all of his aggro to the paladin.

also, Silo, those ideas look more like activated stances rather than tomes. also haste doesnt affect proc rate (or so we've been assured) and again your numbers are waaay too high. keep the ideas coming though :)

Tome of infectious luminance: gives chance for ae blind to trigger a chain - not sure if possible to code but - ae blind hits 6 targets, one of them turns into a "candle" and triggers another ae blind that can hit 6 more targets.
 
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My understanding was that the proc % shown on fomelo is before any haste effects are applied.

They did it with necros, if the same code was applied to paladin blinds it could be quite powerful, although it would mostly help AE agro, and paladins probably need more help with single targets. I also like the deathsave thing a lot. I think the class could use a couple innates like this (and mitigation vs undead!!!)

My numbers are high because I just feel like paladins are really lacking in the endgame. If you have equally geared tanks, there is rarely a reason to have the paladin MT (or sometimes even in the raid). That said the numbers are always just examples to get the idea across.

Blessed Revival: The paladin gains a 100% deathsave. Once triggered, it cannot go off again for 60/45/30/15 minutes. When this effect triggers, the paladin gains 60s of Blessed Vengence:
100AC, 500ATK, +100% Agro
 
i think a tome that brings back agro on heals would be amazing. cool for those situations that the paladin needs to heal themself or a group member and cant blind as often.
 
tome of splintering armor: when below 40% hp, ds on the paladin is increased by 30% and gives a chance to proc a hate spell that stacks with blind
 
Silosobi said:
Improved Divine Stun
Each rank adds 150 hate and 25 mana drain to Divine Stun.
Most endgame bosses cant be stunned, and the base agro on this seems pretty small.
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I really like this one, but id like that it was 150 hate and neg 25 resist check.
It tends to get resisted against higher magic resistant mobs, that doesnt resist the blind.
 
quiet, val. i was gonna use this to root orc pawns and then mana drain them for 7.5 k, 9 seconds at a time.

but yes, valid alteration to the good idea. we can already mana drain with strike of the void and divine stun resists arent fun. even after shiritri glyph
 
That is true, highly resistant mobs vs a pally tank are one of the most obnoxious things. Maybe make it 50 adjust per rank, and rank 4 becomes unresistant.
 
Silosobi said:
That is true, highly resistant mobs vs a pally tank are one of the most obnoxious things. Maybe make it 50 adjust per rank, and rank 4 becomes unresistant.
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i swear, you have an Ace riding in your rigged sleeve - give paladins 100000k ac and hp, unlimited resists, instant 200% death save, 50000 attack bonus, and 10000000000000000 pt ds.

not that im opposed to powering through, but soloing all of the Unitedstatodians, would be a bit too easy with this
 
If you read my other class suggestions they aren't nearly as powerful, I just really feel paladins deserve a nice boost (at the endgame).

Completing 4 ranks of a class tome to generate 600 unresistable agro every 9? seconds doesn't even seem that powerful to me.

A SK can generate 3,000+ unresistable agro every 6 seconds.

Paladins are the least desired/useful tank in the endgame. SKs have near infinite unresistant agro, mana regen and +atk for the entire raid, taps compete with self heals very well, they are superior dps by far, and superior mitigation. Warriors are far and away the best at taking damage. They can also reduce damage on your endless agro SK. They can beat a Pallys dps easily. They have super amazing gamesaver AAs - resil, ae taunt.

Paladins are nice if you fight undead, or there is intense AE damage where GHots save healer mana.

I think its just lame that a paladin is far and away the best geared, expd, and probably skilled tank I raid with, yet for a ton of content we want a box or less progressed character tanking because of their class. A warrior will live longer and a SK will increase overall dps by a large amount.
 
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Guardian Spirit: Every time the paladin drops below 20/40/60/80% health, he gains the assistance of a Guardian Spirit. A Guardian Spirit causes 500PBAE Agro when it appears, and buffers the paladins AC by 30, HP by 150, and resists by 20 each. This effect lasts 20 seconds and can stack up to 3 times. (Doesn't actually summon a pet, preferably just gives a white text emote and adds the stats w/o a buff slot)
 
Not only can the SK increase the ATK AC str and stam on a group, they also take it away from the mob, making it take even more damage, and the loss of ATK and Str will also reduce its damage out put.

Same goes for there "mob takes hit when hitting others" spell, reduces alot of AC on the mob.

Overcap Manaregen, insane aggro, even decent AE aggro (when they get Runic, insane AE aggro)...

Tripple HT, and FD, just to top them off lol.

Yeah SK's are way better than Paladin's, only Vartenaal is still in denial ><
 
Stunning Barrage: Each rank of this tome gives the paladin an additional -25 to all magic resist checks. Each stun a paladin casts has a 25/50/75/100% chance to mimic itself. (The mimics are fairly instantaneous, so it doubles the agro/damage, but not the stun duration)
 
Snake, I thought this was a Pally tome thread, not yet another "this knight is better than that knight because x, y, z" thread.
 
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