I suppose the major question that keeps hounding me in my shower this morning was, Why if we had to field 1/6 the server pop...1/6x4=4/6 of the server raiding did you target 4/6 of your most loyal, dedicated consistant playerbase to disperse them into smaller less cohesive forms. This game is 8 years old with worse graphics and systems than most other games out there, to stay alive we must be competitive to them. For as long as I can remember sod was the cutting edge of many mmorpg ideas that were later incorporated in our rival games. There will be no new great influx of players this late in the game, and breaking the back of 2/3 of your fanbase to appease 1/10 is suicide for sod.
One mans view of 2.0 and neccessary changes.
- Thread starter junius
- Start date
as an aside I would also be sullenly willing to compromise with 30 limit of 2 capped class's. This would allow 2 of every class to have a chance to raid and keep raids from piling one class over another like wizards etc. It would keep the mm element of mmorpg and the ratio of class to to raid at a reasonable level with noone excluded as a worthless class.
luciferblack said:
Kudos to you, I whole heartedly agree with you.
And for those that are saying X zone and X mob are not doable without X amount of healers, but we can't have x amount with the new caps. First off, have you tried every possilbe route? Added DPS means faster kills which means less healing needed,etc. Sometimes when you are trying a new zone or new encounters it takes many tries to get it right. You cannot just expect to go in there with a huge war force, blow the zone away due to numbers, then have nothing left to do. Take time, learn from mistakes, and you'll get it right eventually.
And if you have tried every possible route, have you tried gathering all the information you can to show you really need X amount of healers in X zone or X mob? And then taking this information and presenting it to staff? I never seen SoD staff absolutely refuse to go over intelligently presented information regarding changes that may be needed.
SoD is changing, and yes, change is difficult for many people. But because it's changing, there are going to be many tweeks and such needed before it all works out. And guess what? Then more content and changes will be made and more tweeks will happen again. If you are not willing or not wanting to help or wait on those changes, then so be it, good luck to you in whatever else you choose to endeavor.
Allielyn
*Pony*
Actually, thaz tower, etc, is being tuned continually as it gets tested. It's what happens as new content comes out. Xeldan has been GREAT about doing so, as he always has been when new content has been released.
You must understand that jumping from one tier to another should NEVER be easy. If one tier is above another in difficulty, then it would make sense that you really have to stretch your raid force to maximal limits to do well if you're not completely prepared for it. This is why guilds max out their raid forces by piling on wizards and clerics: because even though they might get upgrades from zone A, they REALLY want the upgrades from zone B.
You can have a little more leeway for classes if you don't mind farming content on your current tier for some time before really pushing into the next. However, the 'hardcore' guilds aren't really interested in farming current content as much as they are pushing into the next tier: because that's where the challenge, and the excitement is, for the most part.
So you have the option of maximizing out your hardcore raid force to raid the places that really stretch the limits of your capability; or taking an all right balance of classes to places that you know you'll enjoy and still get upgrades from. One of those options might mean that friends of yours can't play with you all the time. The other might mean that you may have to put hardcore upgrades on the shelf for a time.
I can't presume to know how best you might adapt. It's a difficult choice, and I'm sorry you have to make it. But I have to disagree with you if you assume that SoD is going to literally die out because of these changes. I just don't see it.
P.S. I've seen Revelation raid almost every night since the changes. :dance:
You must understand that jumping from one tier to another should NEVER be easy. If one tier is above another in difficulty, then it would make sense that you really have to stretch your raid force to maximal limits to do well if you're not completely prepared for it. This is why guilds max out their raid forces by piling on wizards and clerics: because even though they might get upgrades from zone A, they REALLY want the upgrades from zone B.
You can have a little more leeway for classes if you don't mind farming content on your current tier for some time before really pushing into the next. However, the 'hardcore' guilds aren't really interested in farming current content as much as they are pushing into the next tier: because that's where the challenge, and the excitement is, for the most part.
So you have the option of maximizing out your hardcore raid force to raid the places that really stretch the limits of your capability; or taking an all right balance of classes to places that you know you'll enjoy and still get upgrades from. One of those options might mean that friends of yours can't play with you all the time. The other might mean that you may have to put hardcore upgrades on the shelf for a time.
I can't presume to know how best you might adapt. It's a difficult choice, and I'm sorry you have to make it. But I have to disagree with you if you assume that SoD is going to literally die out because of these changes. I just don't see it.
P.S. I've seen Revelation raid almost every night since the changes. :dance:
T
Tarsus
Guest
Not posting here to shamelessly promote my fledging guild (well, ok, a little bit 
), but I don't really have that much beef with 2.0. My guild (Redeemed) has just recently started up about a week or two ago and we will be officially forming later this week with (hopefully) many more members to come. We are all about low-mid level right now (but we have tons of EQ exp, it's just a lot of us recently started to play SoD) and we hope to become a high end raiding guild. I think Wiz and the admins have done a good job so far with the handling of guilds, and I would like to see more guilds starting up that have (at the beginning, at least) a very open recruitment policy. This isn't to bash the big guilds, it's just I started mine with the mission of creating a guild community all the way from the low levels to the higher levels. SoD isn't dead, it's not even close to that. While I would like to see some changes, I'm in no position to say anything ATM because I have not played on SoD long enough to get a feel of the changes. But so far so good.
), but I don't really have that much beef with 2.0. My guild (Redeemed) has just recently started up about a week or two ago and we will be officially forming later this week with (hopefully) many more members to come. We are all about low-mid level right now (but we have tons of EQ exp, it's just a lot of us recently started to play SoD) and we hope to become a high end raiding guild. I think Wiz and the admins have done a good job so far with the handling of guilds, and I would like to see more guilds starting up that have (at the beginning, at least) a very open recruitment policy. This isn't to bash the big guilds, it's just I started mine with the mission of creating a guild community all the way from the low levels to the higher levels. SoD isn't dead, it's not even close to that. While I would like to see some changes, I'm in no position to say anything ATM because I have not played on SoD long enough to get a feel of the changes. But so far so good.
gtoo
THE NEMESIS
Tarsus said:Not posting here to shamelessly promote my fledging guild (well, ok, a little bit
Happy to hear that!
It is nice to get the opinion of someone who isn't from one of the established highend guilds!
I think that raising the player cap, even if its only to 21, would help substantially in preserving the family 'feel' that raiding guilds had pre-2.0. Classes like Rangers, Magicians, Necromancers are all considered unessential in raids aside from throwing COTP or doing rods, and with the changes one of each of these classes is enough and some may be left out because a more needed class such as a healer or a rogue needs a spot in the raid. I think increasing the role that each person plays in a raid encounter is a good idea, but the notion of cutting a raid in half to achieve this is not at all a solution I would've implemented. I think Breaker has some valuable points, and that the 2.0 changes should be modified so they aren't as harsh on the guilds, and families that have come to exist in Dalaya.
spywolf1288
Dalayan Beginner
personally, i like the new raid format for the mostpart. The battles do, in my opinion, feel more epic and feel like i have a greater impact on the battle. However, in some cases, the 36-man format was better suited for some battles. IE doto, teash and a few others that i cant think of off the top of my head. I say this becausethese fights are more of an epic battle that would seem more fit for the 36-man format. I am not really that picky, as long as the changes arent too harsh. I will still most likely continue to play in spite of changes. The new content is awesome from what i have seen of it so far, and i appreciate the attentiveness of xeldan and others who have worked on it to get it up and running smoothly. I didnt read most of the thread yet, so i apologize if i am restating anything that has already been discussed
Ok i dont post often but here it goes...
I like the idea of smaller raids to utilize the independence of classes, however, Raids are a " Family " enviornment ( at least for me ). By family i mean lots of us gathering and shooting the ****. That is the best part of raids as i see it. 18 man raids add a great deal degree of difficulty which i find fun and entertaining. The massive downside is that a few of the friends are left in the cold. Alot of the changes suggested by Breaker seems to be alittle asque (esp. the pally changes!!!!) but i do feel that the servers most resent changes have greatly impacted the growth and well being of SoD. Many have quit because they couldnt adapt to the changes, or felt it was simply foolish.. to them i say MEH! I do however agree that this change in current standings is a great thing for the lower guilds, and those guilds should be able to step into the next teirs. Imho, we should let things ride out and see how they go... If the Admins of SoD later see an issue with the current structure of how things are headed im sure they will be delt with. In closing, stick to what you beleive in. But have faith that Wiz and the other admins are confident in what they are doing.
just my 2cp.
I like the idea of smaller raids to utilize the independence of classes, however, Raids are a " Family " enviornment ( at least for me ). By family i mean lots of us gathering and shooting the ****. That is the best part of raids as i see it. 18 man raids add a great deal degree of difficulty which i find fun and entertaining. The massive downside is that a few of the friends are left in the cold. Alot of the changes suggested by Breaker seems to be alittle asque (esp. the pally changes!!!!) but i do feel that the servers most resent changes have greatly impacted the growth and well being of SoD. Many have quit because they couldnt adapt to the changes, or felt it was simply foolish.. to them i say MEH! I do however agree that this change in current standings is a great thing for the lower guilds, and those guilds should be able to step into the next teirs. Imho, we should let things ride out and see how they go... If the Admins of SoD later see an issue with the current structure of how things are headed im sure they will be delt with. In closing, stick to what you beleive in. But have faith that Wiz and the other admins are confident in what they are doing.
just my 2cp.
I would ask that this thread be kept open for 24 more hours to allow the last voices to be heard before it is locked. It has grown into one of the largest threads in a day or so and I believe it speaks out about the 800 lb gorilla in the room. Thank you all for your inputs.
Azrate
member < ruin >
Azrate
member < ruin >
I would like to see the cap upped a bit, 24 imo but low 20s works as well. The fact that there are 15 classes and 18 people and you are required to bring multiples of enough classes that some get left out is really hurting a lot of peoples ability to join raids.