One mans view of 2.0 and neccessary changes.
- Thread starter junius
- Start date
Allielyn
*Pony*
I've watched for the past 6 months as up and struggling guilds have lost very good players to Ruin because they just felt there was no other way they'd get raid end loot - to the point where Ruin was overfull on raids, up to 44 online at a time, and turning away bots/alts/players. Note: this is not Ruin-hate. Just an observation. I've seen the same thing to a lesser extent occur with what used to be the guild formerly known as Escutcheon.
Now, if players want to see high end loot, they might have to go back and actually help pull up those same guilds they left earlier. For the first time, Ruin is on the butt shaft end of the same stick they were playing with for the last 6 months.
While I can sympathize with the loss of friends from a guild, I can also say that I strongly sympathize with the up and coming guilds that really have very little chance of getting anywhere with the 36 man raid setup as it was. When I see both sides of the picture, I feel I have to choose the 18 man raid forces, in large part because I just feel it's what's best for the majority of the population, but also because I feel it's best for guilds overall.
As an aside:
What I really hope to see out of all this is not only more guilds competing at the high end, but also less bitterness and rudeness in that competition. Hopefully, if your friends end up having to move to other guilds, you will still remain friends! Maybe, if you have room for them, you'll invite them along anyways, even if they're not in your guild! It just might be the case that people that are left out of some raids could organize pickup raids: this is a LOT more feasible now.
Now, if players want to see high end loot, they might have to go back and actually help pull up those same guilds they left earlier. For the first time, Ruin is on the butt shaft end of the same stick they were playing with for the last 6 months.
While I can sympathize with the loss of friends from a guild, I can also say that I strongly sympathize with the up and coming guilds that really have very little chance of getting anywhere with the 36 man raid setup as it was. When I see both sides of the picture, I feel I have to choose the 18 man raid forces, in large part because I just feel it's what's best for the majority of the population, but also because I feel it's best for guilds overall.
As an aside:
What I really hope to see out of all this is not only more guilds competing at the high end, but also less bitterness and rudeness in that competition. Hopefully, if your friends end up having to move to other guilds, you will still remain friends! Maybe, if you have room for them, you'll invite them along anyways, even if they're not in your guild! It just might be the case that people that are left out of some raids could organize pickup raids: this is a LOT more feasible now.
volvov2
Dalayan Adventurer
Nurgock said:You guys seriously sat out Tomil on a raid? He use to be the best dps you had. How the tables have turned
He logged on late
Also, it hasnt hit ruin as hard as you'd think, because alot of people quit when 2.0 hit. Even when it was just announced, we actually started struggling to hit 28 with bots.
just a few of the core classes that every guild has lots of, sometimes log on and we have to make a call.
H
HighLife
Guest
I never said they made me sit out, i said I wasnt able to raid and am :toot: in athica.
I can :toot: with the best though.
Tomil
<ruin>
Edit: Stop trying to make me the center of drama. No drama going on. No one making me log or sit, no one makes me do anything, or god help me I'll kill my own guild off...and I've done it!!...twice....syduck:
I can :toot: with the best though.
Tomil
<ruin>
Edit: Stop trying to make me the center of drama. No drama going on. No one making me log or sit, no one makes me do anything, or god help me I'll kill my own guild off...and I've done it!!...twice....
syduck:
Wiz
NOT DONATING *EVER*
This is for the most part a terrible post and basically reads as "this is what I feel is good without providing any substantionation for my points whatsoever".
If you think 18 cap broke apart guilds, a 30 cap with no DCing would basically require a guild to have a sixth of the server online to raid.syduck:
The huge guilds were the "fabric of community" because you had two options, join one of them or quit. There's nothing saying you can't enjoy being around a smaller amount of people in a smaller guild.
The one valid point to come out of this, in my opinion, is the 18 man / 15 classes one.
Also:
This shows pretty clearly that you haven't been paying any attention.
If you think 18 cap broke apart guilds, a 30 cap with no DCing would basically require a guild to have a sixth of the server online to raid.
syduck:The huge guilds were the "fabric of community" because you had two options, join one of them or quit. There's nothing saying you can't enjoy being around a smaller amount of people in a smaller guild.
The one valid point to come out of this, in my opinion, is the 18 man / 15 classes one.
Also:
This shows pretty clearly that you haven't been paying any attention.
michgan241
Dalayan Beginner
not only did they log tomil but i logged in seeing 5 wizards and logged out about 10 min later preferring not to sit in athica. The holy trinity has always been around and will continue to be, but by limiting it to 18 the tougher the encounter the more people you will see sitting out on a raid. If the upper tower is significantly harder than the lower i can see it being a raid like cmal4 log in exact numbers of wiz/rog healing and tank buff them up from the other classes and sit around to watch them kill. Although there is a lot more skill involved in the lower towers rather than tank/spank (thx xeldan) so i could be wrong wait and see. But lowering the raid numbers leads things closer and closer to the EXACT classes needed for cmal4 which is bad.
Raret <Ruin>
Raret <Ruin>
Allielyn
*Pony*
While I have noticed some guilds being very picky about not raiding without the exact classes or perfectly full raids, I don't think it's intended to be impossible without, and I've not seen any evidence that it is.
And, I don't see why people who want to play a warrior should instead have to play a wizard, just because 6 wizards: 1 warrior is the "ideal" ratio of classes. This change (combined with things like Aux tanking) really gives those less often used classes a boost, and one that's been needed for a while, imo.
That's too bad, but I'd still prefer a smaller server to build upon a surer foundation than the alternative.
And, I don't see why people who want to play a warrior should instead have to play a wizard, just because 6 wizards: 1 warrior is the "ideal" ratio of classes. This change (combined with things like Aux tanking) really gives those less often used classes a boost, and one that's been needed for a while, imo.
That's too bad, but I'd still prefer a smaller server to build upon a surer foundation than the alternative.
Wiz
NOT DONATING *EVER*
junius said:
The server population took an immediate leap down and is now climbing back up to where it was.
I expected this, and I accept it. People have quit over these changes, some more people will probably quit over these changes. Others will end up finding a new guild instead of their old guild (Steel/Defiance, PR/Exodus). There's also been an upshot in new guilds and membership of the smaller guilds.
The one thing you don't get because you're too busy thinking...
or, let me translate:
... is that these changes were made for the benefit of the smaller guilds that have been constantly getting erased from existance over the history of SOD because they can never get up to a stable 30 man raiding force. Why can't they get up to a 30 man raiding force? Because the larger guilds keep eating up their best members since those best members don't want to be stuck at a lower tier forever.
Rinse, repeat.
The large guilds like Ruin are getting screwed right now. I've never denied that. But it will pass and people will find their new places, as opposed to the screwing of the smaller guilds which would just keep going on and on and on and on and on forever until there was nothing left except three or four big guilds.
Wiz said:
Amen.
By the by, Dominion is in fact still around, just doing a bit of restructuring and housecleaning. We are willing to reconsider those of you who left us to pursue greater opportunities with larger guilds - provided you weren't assholes about it when you left. Shoot Nelam or Diodimus a /tell.
Also:
Twenty only allows for 2 more, 22 is too close to 24, I vote 21.
Amen.
By the by, Dominion is in fact still around, just doing a bit of restructuring and housecleaning. We are willing to reconsider those of you who left us to pursue greater opportunities with larger guilds - provided you weren't assholes about it when you left. Shoot Nelam or Diodimus a /tell.
Also:
Twenty only allows for 2 more, 22 is too close to 24, I vote 21.
You have misread me than wiz, I did not mean that as a slight or omg conspiracy. It was to showcase the overall focus on big dps, big items, and a large number of mechanic changes that did not take into account for the rest of the server or a more focused approach on content and new encounters, quests and roleplaying experiences. These have not been fueled by the lower level guilds you speak of, nor the overlooked family guilds. These changes were fueled by guilds like ruin and forsaken.
It is my opinion that the item inflation started with prison and rapidly expanded into cod and its current manifestation of thaz with 20/21 weapons 200 hp/mana items etc...
It is my opinion that the item inflation started with prison and rapidly expanded into cod and its current manifestation of thaz with 20/21 weapons 200 hp/mana items etc...
