Newport Ring 5

[Wesell]

[...] If that were true then it would be perfectly acceptable for say, the Caster MQ aug to be much more useful than the melee MQ augs. After all just because one class reward for the same quest is better does not mean there is a problem, right?

Actually the rewards for the MQ do differ in power by class:

Warrior aug
Effect: Seeking Mind (2 HP regen)
Skill Mod: Riposte +5
STR: +10 STA: +10 AGI: +10 HP: +50

Cleric aug
Effect: Seeking Mind (1 HP regen 1 mana regen)
Skill Mod: Channeling +5
STA: +10 CHA: +10 WIS: +10 MANA: +80

To get back to the subject, I would like to get some actual data on how many characters in the 50 - 60 level range actually have level 4 focuses. I'll do a /who and check some fomelos so we can get a better idea of how many people would really not get use out of the current focus effects.

 

[huey]

Heh, my sham at 26 has it already for when he hits 50 (got it trioing in Elds on my main), so your data prolly won't show everything.

 

[neonovas]

Wesell, that was his point though that they are different, but all are still useful. What if instead they were

Warrior aug
Effect: Seeking Mind (2 HP regen)
Skill Mod: Hand to Hand +5
STR: +10 STA: +10 AGI: +10 HP: +50

Cleric aug
Effect: Seeking Mind (1 HP regen 1 mana regen)
Skill Mod: Channeling +5
STA: +10 CHA: +10 WIS: +10 MANA: +80

The aug stats are still very kickass (like newport ring5), but the skill mod is practically useless for warriors (like 3.5 focus on the rings). Not quite the best skill example to use, but i dont know much about warriors.


I do like the idea of asking around the lv50-60 (i'd even go as low as 45) to see who already has focus4, should probably add in if its a bought/no drop/pristine item to see how they got it. But sounds like a lot of work heh. I know that on both my first 2 chars i had dmg5 before i was able to finish the quest, it was a pain to get a public group. Even then like Magina said, the only people who wanted to do it, also needed it so it would take forever. I finally got some Novus to help me after a treak raid.

edit: i just did it now (saved the names if you want them)
LV 45-60
INT (8 total): 5 have no dmg focus, 3 have dmg4/5.
WIS (1 total): 1 has heal3, 0 have heal4/5

Lv 50-60
INT (7 total): 4 have no dmg focus, 3 have dmg4/5.
WIS (0 total): 0 has heal3, 0 have heal4/5

 

[Wesell]

Wesell, that was his point though that they are different, but all are still useful.

Well the ring is still useful for those who have a better focus effect. Actually, this was the (sarcastic) point that he was trying to make.

[...] After all just because one class reward for the same quest is better does not mean there is a problem, right?

 

[Salarus]

IF you're going to collect data, do 55+ as that is the level this is desgined for, IF you have a full group. Also, we should be comparing it to people who HAVE done the ring, seeing as it's far more common for people who do their research and do quests, to also do tmaps and adepts (as apposed to people who just rush 65.)

 

[Prospero]

Actually I was quite serious when I was giving my example. I think the point of multi class quests is to be sure the rewards are balanced and equally useful for each class. The reason for that last line in my post was because I was trying to point out how silly it would be for there to be unbalanced rewards depending on what class you were... You seem to be taking this thread too personally Wesell.

 

[Wesell]

[...] You seem to be taking this thread too personally Wesell.

Not at all, I was merely clarifying for those who might see this quotation out of context that you intended it to be sarcastic (which they might not otherwise realize).

 

[Wesell]

Okay here's what I got from doing /who throughout the night (minus one fishing bot who had no focus effects).

Character____	Level/Class__	Focus - Item
Drestar	60 DRU	HI2
Darci	50 DRU	HI2
Willoughby	55 DRU	HI4 - Tidefang's Gift
Errcrun	60 DRU	HI2
-	-	-
Vodin	55 SHM	HI2
Neeil	59 SHM	BotD
Jeduha	60 SHM	HI3
Abato	59 SHM	HI3
-	-	-
Akubi	60 CLR	none
Kitja	50 CLR	none
-	-	-
Raynor	60 ENC	DI4 - Blazing Veil
-	-	-
Gropglor	58 WIZ	DI5 - Dagger of Direction
Leminian	57 WIZ	DI3
Fikn	51 WIZ	DI2
Stumples	54 WIZ	none
-	-	-
Lillith	60 MAG	none
Storn	56 MAG	DI4 - Shard of the Ancient Seers

Only two characters have a better focus effect that they would have gotten for themselves and doesn't drop form Treak (which we agree should be an upgrade).

I don't think these rings need anything, but after thinking on it some more it giving it a focus effect that's higher than level 4 would make it out of line with stuff you get from grouping at 65 or entry level raiding and it is pretty easy to go back and power through this quest once you hit 65.

 

[Prospero]

That is actually pretty surprising. I would tend to agree with you that the rings are ok as is based on that. The only thing to consider though is

Also, we should be comparing it to people who HAVE done the ring, seeing as it's far more common for people who do their research and do quests, to also do tmaps and adepts (as apposed to people who just rush 65.)

So do those characters show that it truly is not as easy to get a better focus than the ring has, or does it mean that the people who don't have it from tmaps/adepts are the same people who are not going to do the NP rings? I do not know the answer. Either way thanks for posting that, I think it helps a lot.

 

[Zengo]

So, is this post about the difficulty of the Newport Ring in relation to the rewards or is it about the stacking effects on the ring in relation to casters vs melee? It seems to have taken a weird turn. I want to know which side I should be defending/against.
The way I see it, the difficulty of the quest is irrelevant.
Take for instance the caster Thurg quests. Specifically the ring quest from the Thurg quests. They are all about equally as challenging for the Mages/Wizards/Enchanters/Necros. In fact, they all have to kill the same mobs to loot the same seal for the quest. If the Mage, Wiz, and Enc ring gave a great focus effect and the Necro ring gave Affliction 2, then Necros would be screaming for a change. And rightly so. The simple fact is, on the Newport ring, the effect doesn't stack for casters/healers while the effect does for melee.

 

[Salarus]

Okay, way to ignore my post about people HAVING the ring and having it be an upgrade. Also, you took into account a lot of level 50's, which wouldn't be able to obtain the ring. I guess i'm going to have to conduct my own survey since yours is very lacking. Im out of town till sunday, so expect results mon/tues

 

[dongsy]

In fact, they all have to kill the same mobs to loot the same seal for the quest. If the Mage, Wiz, and Enc ring gave a great focus effect and the Necro ring gave Affliction 2, then Necros would be screaming for a change. And rightly so. The simple fact is, on the Newport ring, the effect doesn't stack for casters/healers while the effect does for melee.

The effects have to stack why, the reward is still GOOD for the effort you put into it , not everything is the same. Not stacking is a difference in the classes designs and what benefits you.

As for those thurgadin rings, please god do some research. I don't think I've met a single enchanter who will tell you they loved the magic focus on their ring.

 

[Kirin Folken]

I do have to agree, useing any 54 or lower toon as a point of reference in this is pretty lacking eveidence, Even 55 I think is pushing it. I have RARELY ever seen a Newport ring group that didn't include some 60+ level toons because of how dangerous the zone is, along with the Final mob. Most groups I see doing it are 57+ on all characters with normaly at least 1-2 64+ toons.

 

[Wesell]

Okay, way to ignore my post about people HAVING the ring and having it be an upgrade. Also, you took into account a lot of level 50's, which wouldn't be able to obtain the ring. I guess i'm going to have to conduct my own survey since yours is very lacking. Im out of town till sunday, so expect results mon/tues

The information I collected on wis and int casters level 50 - 60 is all there including levels. You can interpret it how you want. The only character I found at this time that had the ring was a level 59 shaman and Blessing of the Deep was his best healing focus.

As far ignoring your suggestions - I didn't feel compelled to spend the additional time it would take to actually perform the survey you are asking for when nobody advocating the change has even offered any data that supports their hypothesis.

 

[Salarus]

Your data is irrelevant to the OP. I stated healers and casters who OBTAIN this ring the focus is almost always trivial to. And yes, I did provide evidence. I proved that yes, there are better focus effects where are more easily obtained. To be honest, you've been straw manning me this entire thread, and as per what tyrone said, which was insightful and constructive, it had no relation to what you were saying in the previous posts. Your data is trivial, and i'm going to (as I said) perform my own tests when i return which will support the thesis of the OP, not some crazy side tangent that you keep running off to.

 

[Renshu]

I luv u Wes

 

[neonovas]

Super Edit:
My Results (it's all done up in Excel, is long, and i cant attach it but i'll email it if anyone wants it)
Total 53 players
Total with Ring5 as best - 5 (0 below 60)
Total with better than Ring5 - 9 (3 below 60)

Broken Down by level groups

Total Lv 50-54 - 13
Has Newport and is Trivial - 0
Has Newport and is Best - 0
Doesn't have Newport and has better - 1 (Adept)

Total Lv 55-59 - 12
Has Newport and is Trivial - 0
Has Newport and is Best - 0
Doesn't have Newport and has better - 2 (simple map and bought)

Total Lv 60-64 - 28
Has Newport and is trivial - 0
Has Newport and is Best - 5
Doesn't have Newport and has better - 7


My Conclusions:
Rarely does anyone even do it from 50-59 (0/26).
Few people "try" to get Focus items before 65 (31/53 had Focus 0-2).
Necromancers don't care about DMG INC (0/5!, 4 had afflic3-4), no surprise there though.
Most Focus 4+ were bought (6/9), Tmaps (2/9), Adept (1/9).
I have way to much free time I should spend getting AAs.
Doesn't really conclude much since so few people had the ring or better, and most of those were 60+ not the "~55" intended to get the ring. Appears as if people get the ring for the focus, or dont bother because they have better?
Of the 6 people with Step4, 3 had better focus and the other 3 it would of been an upgrade.

I don't think these rings need anything, but after thinking on it some more it giving it a focus effect that's higher than level 4 would make it out of line with stuff you get from grouping at 65 or entry level raiding and it is pretty easy to go back and power through this quest once you hit 65.

You can get Lv5 from Diff maps (well worn beads/poorly polished scepter), not sure where Dmaps are on the raid scale, but i would think that they would be "entry level" aren't they, the gear seems to be tier2-3ish? Other 2 exceptions:
Red Satin Sash(D5) - Tier2
Winged Cloak of the Soothing Night(H5) - Tier1
Almost everything else H5/D5 was from tier4+, so level 4.5 might be "too good", but there are some lv5 drops before then.

 

[Salarus]

Thank you for the research, as you just saved my ass since i'm on the eve of finals week here. Your resulsts are very interesting, and yes, the D map drops are a very good example of HI/DI 5 items. To sum it up, from 50-64, 10 players have better focus's than newport 5, while 5 have it as their best, and the rest don't have either. While it's not as drastic as I originally had thought, it is still a ratio I do not think should exist, and it is apparent that most of these people who don't get it dont think doing the quest for a ring with stats alone is worth it. When i'm done with finals, I plan on doing a more in depth anaylsis of this, do more research on rings that compare to and are attainable shortly after the newport quest, and contrast how long tanks/dps/casters/healers hold onto these rings.

Again, thank you for the research.