Newport Ring 5

[Wesell]

The OP doesn't want a boost to those rings. They mentioned more than once that the rings are great for the difficulty involved. The suggestion was a change to put them on par with the others as far as how easy they are to trivialize with respect to the worn effect.

Really I don't know how such a request could possibly be satisfied without creating a situation which would less satisfactory. There are two ways you could do this: add a rare focus effect to the item, or add an effect that is cumulative. If you give this ring a focus effect that is hard to replace people will use the item longer because they will be "locked-in" to wearing this item since they can't replace the focus effect (a situation most casters are familiar with). Adding flowing thought would probably get people to wear it longer, but ft is equivalent to just adding raw mana (because nobody using this ring will have max ft). Adding -aggression wouldn't work well either because it's not useful for healers, necros, or enchanters (wouldn't make people use keep using this ring) and for wizards and magicians it's quite useful and not easily replaced (lock-in again).

 

[Salarus]

I will mention again, as i have many times, that yes, the reward is very good for the level stat wise. However, like i've also already mentioned and i'm repeating *again* that the focus effect either will already be trivail to nearly anyone, or will become trival very shortly thereafter where as for the dps/tank ring that does not happen. To be frank, I went so far as to link a number of items easily aquired at that level, some through tmaps, or adepts, and some dropables. They are far from rare, and for the most part, their stats are rather good. Go look at some of the links, especially treaks items, the tmap earing although lacking mana has good stats, and the tmap range also has good stats, especially if you're untwinked at that level. The dropables are easily come by in teh 50's, as spending 500-1k on an item is more than possible if you simply spend a few hours with a group in say, miel B or start farming Sorcs Lab for furs.

Now, about the idea that a rare focus will be held onto, I tend to disagree. The wiki isn't exact on this and I don't have a parser, so correct me if i'm wrong, but I believe crude earthern runes is a 2% chance to land a crit heal. the item with that effect as i've alredy said is off a 35 mob. I am fully aware that it lacks stats, and that they're arn't that many items with this type of focus, especially until late game. However, I do believe adding something with say, 2-4% crit chance for both healers and casters won't cuase that much of a fuss. The stats are great for the level as i've said, but I find it highly unlikely that a healer would hold onto a ring for the chnace to crit on 2-4% more of their heals. 2-4% being 1 in 50 and 1 in 25 heals that will crit, nothing game breaking here, especially for the level. I mean, for gods sake, a 3% crit chance is gained by spend 2 AA points as a healer, (again correct me if i'm wrong) and with max crit via healer AA's only, healers gain 16% crit chance. Putting that chance up to 18-20 is nice yes, but it's not something I could see a healer holding onto past the first few tiers (which is about how long I see the tank and dps rings being held onto)

That aside, there is still my alternate suggestion of making it equal to dmg inc/heal inc 4.5 instead of 3.5 putting it, as i've already said, slightly below treak items, but still above most obtainable dropables/tmap items, which I think is more than fair, even though I do favor the crit chance.

 

[Kirin Folken]

Crude Earthen Runes if I recall is a flat +2% to healing (NOT crit) that happens to stack with normal healing increment? (that part my or may not be correct I never fully tested it. But I know its not a crit chance).

Also adding up to a +4% heal Crit on a newport ring would be over board, as currently the first item you get with that kind of crit increase is a Shield of freeport (5% Crit).

2% Crit increase on the newport ring I dont feel is out of line. Its nice, and you might even see a few people wear it a bit longer. But its not going to replace a higher end toons gear choices.

 

[Salarus]

Interesting, I reemberd it being as a crit despite what the wiki said. I'll test it out though. Either way, you're right, if SoF is only 5% I think 2% would be plenty for the ring, don't want to overdo it and make it too powerful (this all provdied the dev's see things my way haha)

 

[Kirin Folken]

I know when I tryed out the Crude Earthen Rune Neck it was increaseing the amount of Hps healed and never saw a single crit (On a beastlord with no AAs)

Not sure what its suppose to be, but thats what I saw about 2 months ago when I tryed it out.

 

[Wesell]

[...]However, like i've also already mentioned and i'm repeating *again* that the focus effect either will already be trivail to nearly anyone, or will become trival very shortly thereafter where as for the dps/tank ring that does not happen. To be frank, I went so far as to link a number of items easily aquired at that level, some through tmaps, or adepts, and some dropables.[...]

From my experience this is not the case; players do make use of the focus effects on these items.

I looked through your list of items and almost every one of them drops from something harder. Tidefang's Gift, Stud of Reparation, and maybe Shard of the Ancient Seers would be as easy of easier to get. These items have a very good focus effect for the difficulty to obtain them, but otherwise unimpressive stats. As for the other items you listed, you can't expect to have the items you get for yourself to be balanced against items that another player gets from a harder mob, and then sells to you.

Basically these rings have very good stats for a level 55 quest, and an appropriate focus for a level 55 quest.

 

[huey]

Nobody questions how good the rings are. They rule for the effort at that level. The issue is still the difference in the effect of the wis or int caster ring vs the effect on the melee dps or tank ring. One stacks. One doesn't. Saving money is not difficult.

 

[Wesell]

I don't think a discrepancy in the power of the rewards for different classes is, in itself, a reason to change these items.

 

[Salarus]

I'm saying that the effect is almost always trivial, and that alone is a reason to change it for the amount of work that is required to get ring 5.

Also, I wasn't aware that 10 wis/25 mana heal inc 4 *range slot* was considered bad stats for an un-twinked player. (When I rolled a cleric and twinked myself to about 4.3k mana at level 50, I found myself usuing this item.) Or a 10 cha/wis/int di 4 range slot. And i'm glad in "your experience" you've found this diffrent, well in my experienice, it HAS been the case that healers/casters at that level do have something better. Also, what is your definition of harder here? Would it be the dificulty of a specific mob, or maybe how hard a quest is to completed based on the amount of time you have to spend on it? For me, it's a combination of the two, and in that context it's *much* easier to get loot of adepts, or loot from tmaps. And if you really want to get into harder and easier, what is harder here:sitting in miel B with a group for a few hours (much shorter time than it takes to do ring 1-5) while getting xp, and items that sell for a few hundred plat to 1k, then buying one of those dropables that a higher level could farm for you, or spending god knows how much time finishing this entire quest. This especially applies to those in this game who are new, and untwinked, getting a group of people together to help you with parts 4 and 5 are not always the easiest things, it takes a lot of patience. When I first did it, I wasl lucky and was in a mid level guild and after lots of planning took him out with a well rounded group, and of course, spent the time helping everyone else out with it in return (which really adds up.) So I really don't see how you could qualify it as harder.

 

[Wesell]

It's cool that you got that nice range item from Tidefang, but that a player would have gotten one of the two items (one from an adept the other from a 40s tmap) that have a better HI focus is not a forgone conclusion by any means.

As for my definition of hard, Pzrka the Bladelord, Traekoth the Ancient, and Mielech the Reanimated are harder than Althok the Plagued or even the whole quest. All of these mobs drop better HI items. The fact that someone else did the work involved in killing the mob then sold you the item doesn't change the fact that these guys are harder than that quest. Getting a balanced force of twelve toons of the right level together to kill Traekoth is harder than doing this quest, if you happen to get lucky and are asked to join some others who have formed a group to do this doesn't make it easier than the Newport ring quest.

[...] And if you really want to get into harder and easier, what is harder here:sitting in miel B with a group for a few hours (much shorter time than it takes to do ring 1-5) while getting xp, and items that sell for a few hundred plat to 1k, then buying one of those dropables that a higher level could farm for you, or spending god knows how much time finishing this entire quest. [...]

There are droppable items in this game that are superior to no-drop items from quests and raids. If you think these items are too easy to get the item's vendor value should probably be increased making it harder to purchase rather than buffing the stuff that you can get on your own at lower levels to a point that it can't be upgraded by droppable items.

 

[Salarus]

You sir are dead wrong. I camped traek for literally 2 months straight, killing him every 3 days. Not once did I spend more than 30 mintues getting 12 people together, and only 1 time in that entire span of time did we fail at killing traek after a few attemps (only had 2 healers.)

The fact still remains, both of those items have a better focus effect and are EASIER to get, you can't bend around that.

In regards to the other items, i've already adressed the traek thing, and as for dropables, yes they exist in this game. They are bought and sold all the time infact! Saying that they are not a part of a characters progression even as a non twink is rediculous, because if you earned the plat to buy the item, then in my mind, you've done the work for it. Keep in mind, I only listend dropables that are cheap, and easy to obtain, none of those are a stretch by any means for a 55 player to farm the plat for in a few hours. If you have a problem with dropables, thats your issue, but if those items are redily abialbe, which they are, and affordable, which they also are, then players will buy them, especially if it's an upgrade over said ring in terms of a focus effect. Not to mention, you don't even HAVE to buy them, you can live off the 40-49, 50-59 tmaps, and the adepts. (So forgive me, but I really don't see what your argument is, if you would clarify that would be great.) So you're saying that even though there are items that have better focus effects than the ring, and are easier to obtain, some even at a lower level, that the ring's focus doens't need to be changed? Isn't that a bit of a stretch if i'm understanding you right?

 

[Prospero]

I think the issue here is not even that you can buy better items. Magina makes a very good point that the usefulness of the effect on the np ring 5 for casters/priests is pretty minimal. Anyone who says that ring 5 can be done with three non twink 55s has never tried it with three non twink 55s. On the other hand simple are easy to do and also much easier to get people together to do them. A lot of level 55s are still in Dalaya's Beginners so it is hard to get a group together to do a quest like the newport ring, which you need for steps four and five.
Also, the melee rings as it stands is FAR better than the casting class ring because you cannot outgrow the effect - it stacks. The melee rings also have good stats on them and so there is not balance between the melee rings and the caster rings. Trivializing the casting focus effects is not very hard even without buying anything, that is a fact that I think has been quite well proven.
That is why the focuses need to be looked at again.

I don't think a discrepancy in the power of the rewards for different classes is, in itself, a reason to change these items.

If that were true then it would be perfectly acceptable for say, the Caster MQ aug to be much more useful than the melee MQ augs. After all just because one class reward for the same quest is better does not mean there is a problem, right?

 

[phroggonalog]

You sir are dead wrong. I camped traek for literally 2 months straight, killing him every 3 days. Not once did I spend more than 30 mintues getting 12 people together, and only 1 time in that entire span of time did we fail at killing traek after a few attemps (only had 2 healers.)

The fact still remains, both of those items have a better focus effect and are EASIER to get, you can't bend around that.

In regards to the other items, i've already adressed the traek thing, and as for dropables, yes they exist in this game. They are bought and sold all the time infact! Saying that they are not a part of a characters progression even as a non twink is rediculous, because if you earned the plat to buy the item, then in my mind, you've done the work for it. Keep in mind, I only listend dropables that are cheap, and easy to obtain, none of those are a stretch by any means for a 55 player to farm the plat for in a few hours. If you have a problem with dropables, thats your issue, but if those items are redily abialbe, which they are, and affordable, which they also are, then players will buy them, especially if it's an upgrade over said ring in terms of a focus effect. Not to mention, you don't even HAVE to buy them, you can live off the 40-49, 50-59 tmaps, and the adepts. (So forgive me, but I really don't see what your argument is, if you would clarify that would be great.) So you're saying that even though there are items that have better focus effects than the ring, and are easier to obtain, some even at a lower level, that the ring's focus doens't need to be changed? Isn't that a bit of a stretch if i'm understanding you right?

This is all well and good when Novus is camped at Traek for the better part of a year.

 

[lynnettell]

Okay, to reiterate what OP said.

Tank ring = +2 Damage Reduction, +3 aggression. Not a stacking issue.

Melee ring = +10 attack. Not sure on stacking, my rogue is little, but no one saying it doesn't stack.

Caster ring = 10% spell damage, does not stack

Healer ring = 10% heal increase, does not stack

Now. OP said let's change it so it's AS USEFUL as the melee & tank rings as far as effect.

I understand not throwing FT on it, etc. But that's in a nutshell why the change was suggested. Stacking. Two groups can use the "bonus" for a long time, while two groups get nothing out of the "bonus".

OP has a good point on the change. Rather than get all into crits, etc., why not just throw mind shield, spell ward, negative aggression, something like that on, so it's comparable with the stats that the others have? Like +1 or +2, nothing overpowering, would be another reason to keep it around when focus was worthless.

 

[Salarus]

I agree with lynn (of course.) if anyone else has an idea on a way to bump this slightly, please shoot it out!

As for my time camping him, yes I did camp him with novus too. I also locked lobsang for a month in hopes of the bag, and locked rossel there, both long before novus was even formed. Also, none of this threatens the validity of that it is easily possible to get items with a better focus effect at the same level, if not sooner.

 

[robopirateninja]

The thing is, melee and tanking stats stack and caster focuses just don't. It's part of gearing a caster that you get used to. (And honestly, thankful for when you realize that you have to have 8 or more focus effects to gear your class correctly as a caster and having to get important focus effects in more than one slot would be a nightmare.)

The more I think about it, while changing to a crit focus would be neat, its not particularly necessary or warranted. The rings are good as they are, and the fact that they aren't as useful once you get a new focus isn't unique to these rings, it's a part of the way gear for casters works.

 

[Salarus]

That is a very good point. However, I still do feel that even though it's not neccesary to change the rings, it would be more balanced and give more healers/casters incentive to do them. In my OP as the 1st solution, I stated that making the focus dmg inc/heal inc 4.5 and changing nothing else would completely satisfy this, as it would trump the adept/tmap gear which is easier to obtain, and fall just slightly short of what you can aqquire from treak; leaving us with a ring that is not overpowered, or neccesary, but much more suitable a reward for the amount of work required to get said ring.

 

[Wesell]

[...] So forgive me, but I really don't see what your argument is, if you would clarify that would be great. [...]

Tyrone has summed up my argument pretty well. The rewards are appropriate to the difficulty of the quest, for this reason directly boosting the power of the ring with an increase in the focus effect or a point of ft is not appropriate. Caster’s use focus effects which don’t stack, melee classes use worn effects and special effects (which stack). Increasing the focus effect to a something higher than the level 4 focus would be too powerful given the difficulty of this quest, IMO.

Really the few items that you are able to get with a level 4 focus before level 50 are exceptional. The game is designed with a smattering of items with exceptional power for the level, area, or raid tier that a dedicated player can collect to maximize their character.

 

[Salarus]

I still heavily disagree that the focus effect is proportional to the difficulty of the quest. Ring 5 alone, maybe. Once you toss in the time it takes to do rings 1-4 (even with a port bot it takes a long time, without ports, it takes an incredible period of time) you have I don't even know how many hours worked on this.

Let's consider you're looking at this through the eyes of a non twink (and yes, I did this myself non twinked, with my guild thankfully.) The last encounter alone, took us overall I think 5 hours to complete, to get everyone their rings. This last part, and ring 4 also for a non twink are not soloable, you need to bring help, and if you're doing it at 55 which is the intented difficulty, you need to bring a full, well rounded group. The xp isn't that great, there is a fair amount of downtime, and people do eat it on ocassion as the plaguelands is no easy zone. Infact, it's pretty hard to convince the majority of people out there to join you, unless of course they want the ring also, which effectivly doubles your time there for every person who does.

All this said, there still are items, which are below this level of difficulty, that do infact provide a superior focus effect, and are much easier to obtain. Disregarding all dropables which are affordable at that level and which you can farm pp for in a fraction of the time it takes to do this quest, disregarding treak loot, which would also take you a fraction of the time to get (especially for healers,) and just leaving yourself with the tmap pieces, and the tidefang drop, you STILL are stuck with items, which are much more easily obtainable, have good stats (despite a previous post), and the main point: a superior focus effect.

Now, I have no idea how it is deemed unwarented to bump the focus effect, or add a crit chance. The focus effect would be improved to 4.5, making the effect still very useful not only when you get the ring, but for a little bit after too (at least for those who don't bother doing traek.) At this level, the effect is only slightly above the dropables, and loot that is EASIER to obtain, but slightly *below* treak loot, which as we all know you get at level 57. I do still favor the idea of a 2% crit chane, as I believe it would be interesting and add a small flavor to these rings, to the point where they would probably be used almost as long as the tank ring.

In regards to tyrones point, I do agree with him that yes, you do replace focus effects and having it for different slots is very useful, as i've stated already. However, as per the main argument for this (in the op), the focus effects on this rings are for most people, already trivial upon obtaining it, and for the few it isn't trivial very shortly there after.

 

[luciferblack]

I'm all for the caster and healer rings to be bumped to a HI or DI (13-14%) as I think it puts them in a spot between the 40's loot you can get from tmaps and adepts, but lower than Traek.

In the event there's no bump to the effect, it really should have something that stacks. Preferably some -aggression on each. The rings aren't bad as is, but it seems that melee rings have more longevity due to lack of stacking issues.