New PvP server.
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I'd probably come back to SoD if a pvp server was created..
And to anyone who suggests flagging red as an equal or better alternative to pvp.. Are you fucking serious? That is the most bullshit response people always give ANY time pvp is even mentioned..
Red flag pvp on SoD is the boringest shit i've ever seen(hello 3 opponents, DF, and insta de-flagging) and ALL my chars are flagged.
And to anyone who suggests flagging red as an equal or better alternative to pvp.. Are you fucking serious? That is the most bullshit response people always give ANY time pvp is even mentioned..
Red flag pvp on SoD is the boringest shit i've ever seen(hello 3 opponents, DF, and insta de-flagging) and ALL my chars are flagged.
knowom
Dalayan Adventurer
kaotikk said:
Yep most people are unfortunately dead set on flaming the idea of any form of half way decent pvp in EQ. I don't think a seperate pvp server is needed I just think some special pvp zones and some pvp faction based objectives with some incentives in place via rewards of some sort is all it would take to encourage a bit of pvp. It's a shame not many other seem to see it that way and act as if trying to would be a complete waste so no one really pvps in EQ right now since the current pvp system in place you could probably take a steaming pile of crap on and it would most likely be better than it currently is. No offense to the staff on that one, but honestly it's the truth of the matter.
As for "Obviously there would be ban's hand over fist of the folks that dont follow the SoD rules" give me a break that statement might hold some merit if you could prove pve players are less likely to break the SoD rules than pvp players especially given the fact that most would likely be current SoD players who just happen to pvp once in awhile if it's something they enjoy like say on weekends. Special pvp zone mobs could spawn on weekends and despawned during the week if they weren't all ready slaughtered during the weekend time frame to help encourage weekend pvp perhaps. Anyways probably no point bothering trying to encourage the idea of a real pvp system further since the trolls will likely just point that trick pony of classes in EQ are too unbalanced and changing that would maybe possibly who the hell knows tamper with pve some how through kinetic energy or gnomish engineering...errr tinkering.
iaeolan
Dalayan Elder
You don't really get it....knowom said:
It's not that PvP players break rules more or PvE players break rules less, it's that PvP players have MORE rules that breaking would directly affect another player. It's hard for a player to get the motivation to report somebody for breaking SoD rules w/ proof let alone even know rules are being broken. In PvP there would always be some victim, legitimate or not, that demanded retribution to whatever griefer slapped them in the face.
And really, PvP zone mobs...
syduck:If pvp were ever to go large scale it would be in the form of MQ faction pvp with incentives for those who were pvp flagged. This is after the whole class-balance elephant in the room is taken care of.
knowom
Dalayan Adventurer
iaeolan said:You don't really get it....
It's not that PvP players break rules more or PvE players break rules less, it's that PvP players have MORE rules that breaking would directly affect another player. It's hard for a player to get the motivation to report somebody for breaking SoD rules w/ proof let alone even know rules are being broken. In PvP there would always be some victim, legitimate or not, that demanded retribution to whatever griefer slapped them in the face.
And really, PvP zone mobs...
If pvp were ever to go large scale it would be in the form of MQ faction pvp with incentives for those who were pvp flagged. This is after the whole class-balance elephant in the room is taken care of.
Yep PvP zone mobs it's not that far fetched you simply put mobs in a pvp that the players fight over dark ages of camelot and world of warcraft both had mobs and pvp related stuff within zones or tied to them in one way or another so dunno why you were scratching your head on that one.
As for more rules that would directly affect another player I think that's kind of irrelevant because pvp zones would be optional anyway and I'm sure it would have a no player loot system in place since full or partial loot is a bad concept for a game like EQ anyway. I think the only reason verant had it that way was to try and appease to the UO crowd at the time. Plus it's not like breaking rules for pve is ok either and they're actually more devastating since they can negatively affect the game economy and give players or guilds unfair advantages to kill things they might not have been capable of doing without cheating or rule breaking or whatever you want to dub it.
I just don't see any why it couldn't work or would be a bad thing and why people are so opposed to it when it would be completely optional to begin with. If your that worried about class imbalances and rule breaking simply put don't participate in it. It's not like the whole server would suddenly be pvp flagged and everyone would be forced into it.
Exactly. Most people don't care for PVP. I am sure it does not apply to you, but many who like PVP are juvenile and want to somehow prove how 4337 they are and that they can pwn everyone else. Frankly, if one wants PVP I don't know why they would come to a PVE server and then expect the server to cater to their needs. And yes, the PVP balance issue is huge.
iaeolan
Dalayan Elder
I am in favor of a form of open pvp and have been for a long time. I just do not see it being a feasible idea in light of how much work will be involved in not only coding whatever new system but also balancing the game in response.knowom said:
You need to stop making this a like/dislike issue of pvp and realize that it's more cost/benefit.
Nathasar
Dalayan Adventurer
I for one would prefer to just stay red-named on the existing server. Redname is a choice, and it's even one that can be taken back. I kept my flag after so-and-so killed me because now I can think about ways I can improve my shadowknight to fight those kinds of threats.
I pvp just for the fun of it, and I've been doin' it since I first figured out how to do it.
I pvp just for the fun of it, and I've been doin' it since I first figured out how to do it.
Syalara
Dalayan Beginner
knowom said:
So you want server staff to dedicate time to making new zones and populating them with whatever the hell pvp mobs are just so a handful of people who fail to realize this isnt a pvp game can roll lifeburning necros or bards and pat themselves on the back for their leet skillz?
Seriously, let this go. I mean I could think of dumber things to add to Dalaya...but I would have to try damn hard.
knowom
Dalayan Adventurer
Syalara said:
They could lump it together as one ongoing RP type of faction based pvp event in just one zone. If it went well they could expand no the idea and if didn't they could simply leave it how it was. If server staff can dedicate time to role playing events for a handful of people so why couldn't some time be invested into pvp?
Whats the harm in trying with just one zone. It's not like it would result in a influx of griefers it could be setup to prevent corpse camping zone it would be zone restricted and you could simply disallow binding in the pvp zone, but allowing players to bind outside of it. Plus I'm sure it would be setup so there isn't any partial or full player loot since they're the least popular pvp concepts especially among the casual friendly crowd.
Imagine 3 rival factions in a zone with a few different, yet annoying pathing mobs say necros, enchanters, cleric, and shadow knights perhaps the most mixed and annoying mob types in the game right? Which just so happens would tend to promote more of a mixed and balanced group or raid as well. There could be a few cluster spots of like 2-4 mobs occasionally and maybe some mobs couldn't be rooted or mezzed. Some of the roamers might be friendly mobs for your faction, but kos to other players. I think if nothing else it could prove be a really interesting idea.
As for the necro and bard comment it's just silly I highly doubt in group or guild orientated pvp that it would be as drastic as you act like it is especially when pve would be random element in the pvp itself so you'd hope more of a mixed setup would fair far better anyway at least it should. They might still be popular choices, but that's a different story and to hard to tell given the various methods that could be used to approach the idea.
knowom
Dalayan Adventurer
iaeolan said:
So RP content is necessary work and unnecessary to who you? By the unnecessary work logic this whole server is/was unnecessary.
As for the bard and necro balance issue if it's group/raid faction based pvp and both sides can use them what's the big deal with it and who says they couldn't become better balanced?
Syalara
Dalayan Beginner
And then you have PvP dictating PvE balance....which in a PvE game. IS FUCKING DUMB.
Look, you may have brilliant ideas but this isnt the place/time/game for them if you arent getting the hint. Devs have a limited amount of time and there are so many things outstanding to be done as is, I could not imagine one single reason for them to spend time on this when its not garnering a whole lot of interest.
Stop trying to force the square peg through the round hole.
There is an emu server still in beta form last time I checked that has what you are looking for. I would suggest you do some research and find what you seek elsewhere.
Look, you may have brilliant ideas but this isnt the place/time/game for them if you arent getting the hint. Devs have a limited amount of time and there are so many things outstanding to be done as is, I could not imagine one single reason for them to spend time on this when its not garnering a whole lot of interest.
Stop trying to force the square peg through the round hole.
There is an emu server still in beta form last time I checked that has what you are looking for. I would suggest you do some research and find what you seek elsewhere.
iaeolan
Dalayan Elder
The problem is that the game is balanced so players in groups fight a mob with many hundreds of thousands of HP and the players have their abilities distributed as sustained and burst dps... when you go to players fighting players, all that matters is burst dps (which was 'balanced' by melee and DD spells being reduced by a percentage). The only real way to balance pvp would be to make pvp damage something like 1% to make the duration of the fight equal to that of a pve fight (which damage is balanced for)knowom said:
knowom
Dalayan Adventurer
iaeolan said:
I can see kind of see where you coming from with and at least you explained the reasoning behind what your saying so at least I can consider that as a positive contribution to the topic in discussion I mean at least you put some logic and thought into your post at least that's a step in the right direction in the discussion itself one way or another.
You mentioned the difference between pvp encounters opposed to pve being balanced different in regards to hit points opposed to pvp due to players hit points being a fraction of what npc mobs hit points are and the balance in pve being determined by abilities distributed as sustained and burst dps and other factor which you excluded mentioning and stating that in pvp all that matters is burst damage. What about the important of healing, crowd control, buffing/debuffing, damage absorption, ect...how do does all that fall into play for group/raid scenarios of pvp? In DAOC for example burst damage wasn't always king mez was easily as important at times what makes EQ so different in that regard particularly on SoD and what would be the harm of reducing pvp damage to something like 1% damage like you mention?
"And then you have PvP dictating PvE balance....which in a PvE game. IS FUCKING DUMB."
The problem I see with that by Syalara is you're simply stating something without really making any or much explanation behind it and then doing so in such a inflammatory disrespectful mannerism. It makes me have the feeling your the kind of person I'd strongly avoid grouping with if that's your general attitude. So pvp dictating pve balance care to actually divulge more onto what you mean by that I understand EQ pve focused and has some minor pvp elements in it as well, but I don't see how you came to the conclusion expanding upon pvp would mean it would dictate pve suddenly.
I know actually know a rather simplistic way of garnering a idea on the type of interest a group/raid pvp and pve encounter could have. My proposal would be one zone which would be the Arena that was used from the test of tactics on live that used to be off of Lake Rathetear on live. Then have weekend events where players compete over mob spawns with various difficulty mobs all ready on sod could be used for this purpose as well as perhaps some custom ones if wanted. Mob difficulty could range from single player, group, raid, or even up to a zone wide difficulty as well as player level difficulties. How the loot would be handled would be tricky of course given it's a pvp arena, but I think manageable. The mobs might look like standard mobs we've all seen on SoD, but they'd actually just have keys to other loot which could later be acquired and distributed afterwards in another zone via a quest turn in, chest you unlock, or any variation of the two. End result competition, fun, loot, and experience plus feel it could be very tangible. The idea could be expanded upon very easily and yet still be very pve centric. Mobs could be made to summon or ae zone wide summon and there could be a zone wide death touch in place for players outside the pvp flagged area of the zone randomly every 2 minutes to encourage players to stay inside the cage so to speak which work as a good zone name or something along those lines. It probably sounds more far fetched than it really probably would be, but it's up to what devs think on it more than anyone I just consider them to take the idea into consideration as a possible idea even if it's a future one. I'd be keenly interested to hear what wiz thinks it would be good to hear his input on some of this stuff.
I had alot of fun PVPing with Meso. Generally he would kill me but I took him down a couple times.
Its with him gone.
Not many stay red flaged long. I cant kill Thizik. Having some balance even with a little unbalance is fun. Having an immortal enemy is not.
Long ago there was a PVP zone, same zone that sadri malath is now. It was empty. No one ever went. Ever.
Id like to see a few bones tossed towards PVP, But with the way the server handles movement (strifing) and current class PVP balance its not going to happen. Its not practical and it wont be fun. This is a PVE server.
ONTOPIC -- Glad you took care of that leeching server
Its
with him gone. Not many stay red flaged long. I cant kill Thizik. Having some balance even with a little unbalance is fun. Having an immortal enemy is not.
Long ago there was a PVP zone, same zone that sadri malath is now. It was empty. No one ever went. Ever.
Id like to see a few bones tossed towards PVP, But with the way the server handles movement (strifing) and current class PVP balance its not going to happen. Its not practical and it wont be fun. This is a PVE server.
ONTOPIC -- Glad you took care of that leeching server
knowom
Dalayan Adventurer
Ponden said:
With out knowing a whole lot about the zone at the time or the server situation is very difficult to tell what went wrong in that case. There are a few question I'd have to ask in regard to that which could easily attribute to why it didn't have any success apparently.
1) Were the majority of players on the server still caught up in initial grind to hit 65
2) How big was the server population then by contrast to it's size now
3) Was it before MoP was implemented and really just to far out of the way to go for people
4) Was the zone just for pvp essentially or was there some other compelling pve reasons to go the zone as well
5) Did the pvp itself have incentives to it aside from the fun factor
Onto the movement strafing thing what's wrong with how that works here on SoD is it some how different than from live and why is strafing a bad thing it it adds another element of skill.
As for iaeolan how does healing fit into the pvp scheme of things as they are now it's normally more efficient for both pve and pvp is that somehow not the case right now in pvp?
Are people suddenly all going to play bard and necro when you can only have 3 of a class on a target at a time anyway and neither can heal to any substantial degree all though necros can moderately self heal, but in any case they still have to worry about slam/bash/stuns/mez/fear/knockback/root/upheaval/ect..don't you think if they're considered the cheesiest classes going people will learn to adapt and just kill them first like every other pvp mmo?
What good would it do for players if they can kill the other players only to turn around and be destroyed by the pve encounters? Couldn't a pve encounter just as easily end up dictating the balance the of pvp based on the encounter itself to a certain extent based on the mob or mobs in the ring?
iaeolan
Dalayan Elder
I'm not sure what you are asking with that run-on, but how do you think it will mess with balance ? You make the pvp damage scaled down to 1% across the board and attempt to balance pvp like pve, then a cleric heals for 5k. See the problem? You can't balance heals because there is no way to determine if the heal is pve or pvp involved.knowom said:
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