darksabbath
Dalayan Master
Lol Zae, I know. I just thought I'd ask him what his gripe was. I've been here for quite awhile, though I admit to more lurking then posting.
NEW MOP THREAD
- Thread starter Slaariel
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jew_nose_it
Dalayan Master
to be fair I haven't complained about the mop yet and I generally complain about everything.
(sorry for derailing the thread but I am just responding)
just quoting myself from an older thread:
"Its always the same old story,player sees all the *great* utilities Druids get,level him up
to notice that his healing power is *slightly* less than a Cleric and go to the boards whining
how Druids "suck" in the endgame.
I like it how those requests totally ignore the lack of almost any utility or dps of Clerics
throughout their career,making it much harder to level them up."
Additionally in the meanwhile I realized ports and damage shields (why is the Druid final DS
better than the Mage's one,,btw?) are a *big* deal on SoD,these core abilities stayed
totally unchanged compared to live whereas yaulp lost mana regeneration,Shamans Torpor
was moved to level 60 from low 20s on live and their slows are heavily affected by the huge
mob resists on SoD(but Druid swarm DoTs kept their -100 resist adjust).
I hope you get the idea and stop here,there are more points than mentioned here.
jew_nose_it
Dalayan Master
because in 6 man groups healing is whats most important on a priest class....shamans heal longer, clerics heal better?
Well that may or may not be why I was killed without ever seing the mob or mobs that attacked me. Everyone proclaims it's so easy, but I didn't intentionally walk up to any mobs, and was killed in no time none the less.
I really have nothing good to say at all about this change, so I'll leave it at that.
Thade
DINOSAUR THADE
except it happens when I am 3 feet from them and not when I Am far away.
(All quotes from Zaela)
quote:
"If difficulty of leveling up ( clerics and druids are both perfectly capable in group situations and duos through the pre-raid game)..."
I have a 55 Pally,a 55/130AAs Cleric and a 51 Druid(with trash gear),either Priest boxxed
with the Pally kills about the same mobs in the same time.Not to mention the time saved
by ports for necessary trips to town for banking/buying/selling stuff and questing.
I did the MQ up to Heartlands with a Ranger without using a port mule,took me 5 days.
quote:
"It really is the case that druid utility does not matter in the high-end"
Again,ports matter,1st you need to get there.
quote:
"any 6-man group is going to have an SB druid or mage DS (mage ds is smaller because it also has fire resist) and WoN (the other druid buff) whether or not they have a druid"
I dont get your point here,if a group has WoN or a DS it doesnt matter if the Druid is actually in the group,the group utilizes a Druid buff.
quote:
"druid dps is basically worthless"
Sure a Druid is not a Mage or a Wizard,but on par with Shaman dps and makes a Cleric pale in this regard(never saw a Cleric meleeing in a 65 xp group or in a (up to T5) raid,not sure whats up with that on SoD).
quote:
"If a 6-man group is going to have two healers, it will be cleric and shaman"
With a lot of mobs having AEs and the feature (or is it a bug?) that mobs randomly hit players
other than the tank and all the fearing,mezzing,rooting etc. from mobs its rare that the
damage taken goes only to the MT justifying the use of 2 group healers easily.
And having a Shaman main I can tell you that most groups feel very uncomfortable with just
a Shammy healer because of missing group heals,they always look for a group healer first.
quote:
"shamans have the enormous utility of slow"
In the non raid game I rarely slow mobs because it would LOWER the kill rate,actually tanks
want to be hit as often as possible to get the most out of damage shields.(I have 5 damage
shields running on my 65 Ranger when tanking).
quote:
"their group heals are slow"
Well,at least they have group heals in opposite to Shamans.
All in all my point is that Druids thanks to ports are great time savers and they get this at
no cost,then they get healing almost on par now with Clerics and far better than Shamans.
What we (I hope
) want is the classes as different as possible ,we dont want Rangers with
backstabbing,Bards with FD,Rogues with Endless Quiver,Wizards with Kei,Mages with ports.
In the light of this I feel with HoTs Druids stepped to deep into Cleric terrain.
quote:
"If difficulty of leveling up ( clerics and druids are both perfectly capable in group situations and duos through the pre-raid game)..."
I have a 55 Pally,a 55/130AAs Cleric and a 51 Druid(with trash gear),either Priest boxxed
with the Pally kills about the same mobs in the same time.Not to mention the time saved
by ports for necessary trips to town for banking/buying/selling stuff and questing.
I did the MQ up to Heartlands with a Ranger without using a port mule,took me 5 days.
quote:
"It really is the case that druid utility does not matter in the high-end"
Again,ports matter,1st you need to get there.
quote:
"any 6-man group is going to have an SB druid or mage DS (mage ds is smaller because it also has fire resist) and WoN (the other druid buff) whether or not they have a druid"
I dont get your point here,if a group has WoN or a DS it doesnt matter if the Druid is actually in the group,the group utilizes a Druid buff.
quote:
"druid dps is basically worthless"
Sure a Druid is not a Mage or a Wizard,but on par with Shaman dps and makes a Cleric pale in this regard(never saw a Cleric meleeing in a 65 xp group or in a (up to T5) raid,not sure whats up with that on SoD).
quote:
"If a 6-man group is going to have two healers, it will be cleric and shaman"
With a lot of mobs having AEs and the feature (or is it a bug?) that mobs randomly hit players
other than the tank and all the fearing,mezzing,rooting etc. from mobs its rare that the
damage taken goes only to the MT justifying the use of 2 group healers easily.
And having a Shaman main I can tell you that most groups feel very uncomfortable with just
a Shammy healer because of missing group heals,they always look for a group healer first.
quote:
"shamans have the enormous utility of slow"
In the non raid game I rarely slow mobs because it would LOWER the kill rate,actually tanks
want to be hit as often as possible to get the most out of damage shields.(I have 5 damage
shields running on my 65 Ranger when tanking).
quote:
"their group heals are slow"
Well,at least they have group heals in opposite to Shamans.
All in all my point is that Druids thanks to ports are great time savers and they get this at
no cost,then they get healing almost on par now with Clerics and far better than Shamans.
What we (I hope
) want is the classes as different as possible ,we dont want Rangers withbackstabbing,Bards with FD,Rogues with Endless Quiver,Wizards with Kei,Mages with ports.
In the light of this I feel with HoTs Druids stepped to deep into Cleric terrain.
Thade
DINOSAUR THADE
Druids only matter at the low end of the game. That is exactly what zaela said, and you basically proved it with everything you said.
For the longest time taking a druid to a high end 6 man where things was difficult was impossible until you seriously out geared it.
Also a druid does nowhere near the dps of a shaman and similar to a cleric. I'm not sure what game you are playing but I can regularly do ~700 dps on thade and druids top out at about 400. A cleric meleeing spends 0 mana and does almost 400 with NO cost to themselves.
Also I can tell you after maining a shaman for 2.5 years there are very few places I wasn't able to solo heal when I was at the intended tier.
Ports aren't utility. You load a wizard, do tls, and camp it. That's 0 interaction with the wizard and not his "utility" at all. Basically using a druid for ports not to Green Mist is silly. The only utility druids brought to high end groups/raids was druid archaic, and being able to cast sihalas regen when it fades .
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Moving this thread back on topic.
I have invested thousands of hours in this game getting my toon up to tier 10.
I have persisted with this game *only* because it was possible to perform adequately with my level of keyboard skills. I have no pretensions to being a good player.
If I go to Taeshlin and have to run passed the eyes I accept I have a 9 in 10 chance of dieing. This is no big deal. I get my 95% rez, rebuffs and am at the mob and (shortly) ready to go. Contrast that with the MoP. No Rez. No Rebuffs. Dumped at my bind point with the prospect of an endless cycle.
What I am saying here is that for players in my situation this change is simply a game breaker. You are not going to get many people coming on here and saying so because of the derision they are going to receive from the "I can do it so if you cannot you are a retard" brigade. They will quietly fold their tent and move on.
So the issue is simple. If you are happy to drive people out of the game then stick as you are, otherwise move it back.
I have invested thousands of hours in this game getting my toon up to tier 10.
I have persisted with this game *only* because it was possible to perform adequately with my level of keyboard skills. I have no pretensions to being a good player.
If I go to Taeshlin and have to run passed the eyes I accept I have a 9 in 10 chance of dieing. This is no big deal. I get my 95% rez, rebuffs and am at the mob and (shortly) ready to go. Contrast that with the MoP. No Rez. No Rebuffs. Dumped at my bind point with the prospect of an endless cycle.
What I am saying here is that for players in my situation this change is simply a game breaker. You are not going to get many people coming on here and saying so because of the derision they are going to receive from the "I can do it so if you cannot you are a retard" brigade. They will quietly fold their tent and move on.
So the issue is simple. If you are happy to drive people out of the game then stick as you are, otherwise move it back.
Ran MOP last night, got Portal Contagion. You guys didn't change anything > : (
I've been through the new MoP 6-8 times per day since the baddies were implemented without dying a single time. I've only been flung once, and I've made two absolutely clean runs without even being noticed. It can be done. I'm not busting the chops of anyone who says it's not their strong point...we're all good at different things. But I find this to be a good change for so many reasons. It's made druids more useful, and even wizards (who were at least wanted for their DPS) have a way to make a little plat in their downtime. As far as I'm concerned PoK was a horrific addition to live, and there (like here) I mained a paladin and poked around on some other non-porting classes. I don't even HAVE a porting class, so this isn't all about some personal gripe either.
If you don't like to run, play a porter, or donate to one...and don't say it's not fair to have to pay for ports, because I bet when you run across that high level druid or wizzie spell, you're not giving it away for free. Also, where did the idea arise that this is harder on low end characters? There's absolutely no difference between running through a level 1 or a level 65. Don't run into Mr. Huggles and you'll do fine.
Sure, there have been a small handful of people who say (and probably are) going to quit over this. But for the most part, it seems to me the new MoP has revitalized plain old having fun. For months all you saw in ooc was the usual LFG or group LFM requests, some guild drama, and the same old jokes about furries and juggalos. With the new system, people are talking to each other, helping out, and even discussing doing things just for the fun of it, like drunken MoP races. So this doesn't add to high end content? Big whoop....I play for entertainment, and I have enjoyed the hell out of this.
If fun doesn't matter to you, then ponder this. At least the MoP isn't dumb luck anymore. Before I didn't use the MoP when I had buffs, now I can. If I get debuffed, killed, etc. it's because of something I did, not some random draw. So I have to learn to be careful, I can live with that.
If you don't like to run, play a porter, or donate to one...and don't say it's not fair to have to pay for ports, because I bet when you run across that high level druid or wizzie spell, you're not giving it away for free. Also, where did the idea arise that this is harder on low end characters? There's absolutely no difference between running through a level 1 or a level 65. Don't run into Mr. Huggles and you'll do fine.
Sure, there have been a small handful of people who say (and probably are) going to quit over this. But for the most part, it seems to me the new MoP has revitalized plain old having fun. For months all you saw in ooc was the usual LFG or group LFM requests, some guild drama, and the same old jokes about furries and juggalos. With the new system, people are talking to each other, helping out, and even discussing doing things just for the fun of it, like drunken MoP races. So this doesn't add to high end content? Big whoop....I play for entertainment, and I have enjoyed the hell out of this.
If fun doesn't matter to you, then ponder this. At least the MoP isn't dumb luck anymore. Before I didn't use the MoP when I had buffs, now I can. If I get debuffed, killed, etc. it's because of something I did, not some random draw. So I have to learn to be careful, I can live with that.
This x100000
I tried the new MoP the other day. After listening to all the whining here, I decided to try it on a character that already had 100% xp debt, with the idea that I was going to die.
So I talked to the wizard, listened to his warnings, accepted my fate and proceeded into the MoP - apparently, to my guaranteed demise.
I made it, first try! I ran all the way to the Erudin portal without dying. There were a couple close calls, but by paying attention and moving out of the way I made it.
Come on now. It's really not that hard. It might take a bit more time and focus, but it is completely doable. Just pay attention.
I find it hard to believe that I am awesomely awesome at this game, because I'm not. I just pay attention and move out of the way of everything.
tl;dr;
pay attention & move out of the way of everything
So I talked to the wizard, listened to his warnings, accepted my fate and proceeded into the MoP - apparently, to my guaranteed demise.
I made it, first try! I ran all the way to the Erudin portal without dying. There were a couple close calls, but by paying attention and moving out of the way I made it.
Come on now. It's really not that hard. It might take a bit more time and focus, but it is completely doable. Just pay attention.
I find it hard to believe that I am awesomely awesome at this game, because I'm not. I just pay attention and move out of the way of everything.
tl;dr;
pay attention & move out of the way of everything
Croccifixio
Dalayan Adventurer
mop works fine.. i like the changes =)
darksabbath
Dalayan Master
Let me start this by saying, I have access to 65-anything pretty much. I could port where-ever I need to go. But my regular duo is a bst/cleric combo. As anyone with a non-porter in the combo can tell you, it is a hassle to play toon-roulette to get your toons ported where you want to go.
With the old MoP, I pretty much had to, if I wanted to make sure i got there with my non-sb buffs intact. With the new one, I just have to avoid some mobs. I ran both toons through to Newport, Darkwoods and Oggok last night, and I was never attacked. I got 3 messages once (run to newport portal), but usually I got no more than one the whole time running through.
I will take the skill MoP > random MoP any day of the week.
hynch
Dalayan Adventurer
I just want to add that the new MoP is awesomeeeeeeeee! Hated getting KEI or something stripped in there. And to all of you dying in the MoP, maybe you should take your hand off your crotch and focus on the game or something. Seriously how do you navigate this game? Virtually every other zone in the game has the same element of danger as the MoP.
phroggonalog
Dalayan Master
A+ post fully agree
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