New item listing system discussion

I'm trying to look ahead and extol the possible virtues of a common 'market day', which I believe the staff intend to encourage/support.

So, you expect on a market day that everyone will run around doing a /cm listsold or whatever it is, on each person? Surely, it'll be just using /auc or whatever, as usual for many people. That'd be easier....
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Is there a problem with this? Using both?

Most of the ills listed here might be sorted, but by changes or 'new things' still to come.... I don't think that particularly impacts on this discussion.
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Of course current situations are impacted upon by upcoming things on the horizon. Better not step out of the way of that bus careering round the corner, it's still a few feet away from me.

Unless you think in all situations that there might be something new around the corner to sort the/a problem, so the problem shouldn't be discussed....
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No mate, I remember reading about these possible market days, and hearing that the staff were going to support the first few events to get them rolling. I'm not just making this up on the spot.
 
Marumm said:
The real advantage I see is for people who have the ability to DC but don't. I don't like to DC myself, but I don't mind idling a mule character in Newport with an afk message if I've got things to sell.
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This is not much different from the old system for those of us without vendors. When I was not DC, I sometimes had the mule in Newport doing the /auc thing. Now, people can look directly if they know to. So I'll still do the /auc thing so people know to look, including item links and prices for those not near a banker. No change from before.
 
This system is worse, and is almost completely useless without the ability to search for items being sold.

clicking on individuals is dumb. spamming WTB/WTS is dumb too.

This doesn't solve pricing issues either. Players will sell things for what they want regardless. it's inane to think things will be done otherwise. What this does is potential extend vendership to everyone, but it takes away the easy method to go look.

Make the items searchable in the whole database and it'll be a great system. I think WoW has a system like this.

Zeto
 
Could it be changed so that you only need to be in the zone where the banker is intead or right at banker? There were 2 ogres and a troll in SNP bank last night, I only went there to bank and it was tricky to get out. Also I think the troll attacked the banker by mistake or something, because his corpse was in the doorway.
 
Well Great.

I am still not happy about it, and I would very much like to know what you felt was not true, but I suppose I had best be done with the topic and accept it.
 
It seems to be trading convenience for fairness, which is reasonable. My main issue is that it really limits the breadth of goods that tradeskillers can offer. Sure, any given tradeskill has only so many items at a given skill level, but what about people who want to sell cheap stuff for lower levels as well as money-makers to the high levels? What about people with multiple tradeskills? Perhaps implement a quest for people with 250 in a tradeskill that gives them a special vendor of some kind? That way, the advantage goes to people who at least made an effort and took the time, rather than just whoever got lucky and nabbed a vendor. They could be put in specific areas, such that say, Newport, develops a 'smithing district' where GM smiths pay people to sell their wares, and then a 'jewelry district' etc. I would suggest making a new zone possibly for this, but then it gets too Bazaar like.

Also, it doesn't really tie you to the banks as some people said. You can still carry around your goods and use /auc.

The biggest question I have is, won't all those /cmd listsold requests on market days, or even on regular days, lag up the system? And if they do, will it be more or less than the old vendor system?

I can only guess but my gut tells me that it might cause some lag issues.

Maybe make a /cmd buyitem playername list# that works only at the bank, and takes money right out of your bank? I guess that would have been better in the discussion thread, but I only thought of it now. And then of course, that might result in even more server load.
 
The tradeskill thing *is* a problem, and I'm thinking of ways to solve it.

I will probably be adding a /cm to add yourself to a list of currently online people that are selling things, as a easy reference when you are browsing people for buyables, but we don't want automatic selling/buying. We just don't.
 
Perhaps the old /bazaar window could be used with this system to list all the items people in the zone have for sale.

So you could do /bazaar in any zone and it would show what everyone in that zone had for sale. It would save you the time of going up to everyone, targetting them, and typing /cm listsold.

Is the /bazaar window even in this client?
 
moghedancarns said:
Well Great.

I am still not happy about it, and I would very much like to know what you felt was not true, but I suppose I had best be done with the topic and accept it.
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Your post had basically no obvious purpose except to piss off staff as much as possible. Be happy all I did was delete it.
 
elbas said:
Perhaps the old /bazaar window could be used with this system to list all the items people in the zone have for sale.

So you could do /bazaar in any zone and it would show what everyone in that zone had for sale. It would save you the time of going up to everyone, targetting them, and typing /cm listsold.

Is the /bazaar window even in this client?
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This may be too hard to write, or against the desires of the team, but just a thought to extend upon what elbas says... What if the /bazaar window were to function sorta like it did in live, but work in all zones, and show items from everyone.. basically like, open the bazaar window, and you have that search/sort interface, and the set of items it would work against would be ALL items that are in shared bank slots and that have their prices set. Now, you would still have to contact the player, meet up with them, etc, but at least you would be able to see what all was available out there without having to run around... I mean, maybe people will all park their characters in the same little area so that this isn't a problem, but if I really really want a certain lvl 65 bard song (funny since i'm level 9 and not even a bard, but oh well) it would be nice to be able to find out if ANYONE has that for sale, in one simple search/interface.

I don't see how this would really damage the interaction since you still have to find out where the player is, travel there, and exchange coin for items so you still have the personal interaction that seems to be desired, but you have a more convenient way of locating it. Personally, if I'm a non-porting character and I'm a solid 8 zones away from NP, I don't want to run all the way to NP to see if anyone is selling what I want, run around NP targetting every PC I see and worrying over "what if I didn't see the one person who has the item I want because they were off the beaten path" or some such... This way I could find the item, find the player name, send them a tell to let them know I want it and am on the way so to hold it, and make my way there... Heck, if postmaster could deliver plat, you could even deliver your plat to the character, and they could deliver your item to you... still player interaction, still talking, and you still may have to run a ways to get to a postmaster, but wouldn't require you to run across 8-10 zones or whatever.

Just some thoughts. Personally, I've not sold or bought anything using the old or new vendor systems, but I imagine once I DO have some plat and/or some decent stuff to sell, I'd much rather have an interface that quickly allows me to find out if what I want is out there, even if I do have to travel to get it once I do find it.. Maybe not do the postmaster thing, since having to travel for the item really does make it where you have to really want the item... it re-inforces the expansiveness of the game since you'd have to run/walk/boat/etc to get the item, but at least you'd know it's going to be there when you get there.
 
Thus my reasoning behind getting over it and accepting it.

I am particularlly happy to have gone with what I though was the calm and reasoned revision. I can certainly think of more than a few lines that might have needed a bit more polish... and a few (ok, a bunch) that might have needed outright deletion. A couple more make me outright cringe.

Believe it or not I felt I was arguing valid points. However, it certainly was not the proper way to go about it.

I am sorry about that.
 
calaran said:
elbas said:
Perhaps the old /bazaar window could be used with this system to list all the items people in the zone have for sale.

So you could do /bazaar in any zone and it would show what everyone in that zone had for sale. It would save you the time of going up to everyone, targetting them, and typing /cm listsold.

Is the /bazaar window even in this client?
Click to expand...

This may be too hard to write, or against the desires of the team, but just a thought to extend upon what elbas says... What if the /bazaar window were to function sorta like it did in live, but work in all zones, and show items from everyone.. basically like, open the bazaar window, and you have that search/sort interface, and the set of items it would work against would be ALL items that are in shared bank slots and that have their prices set. Now, you would still have to contact the player, meet up with them, etc, but at least you would be able to see what all was available out there without having to run around... I mean, maybe people will all park their characters in the same little area so that this isn't a problem, but if I really really want a certain lvl 65 bard song (funny since i'm level 9 and not even a bard, but oh well) it would be nice to be able to find out if ANYONE has that for sale, in one simple search/interface.

I don't see how this would really damage the interaction since you still have to find out where the player is, travel there, and exchange coin for items so you still have the personal interaction that seems to be desired, but you have a more convenient way of locating it. Personally, if I'm a non-porting character and I'm a solid 8 zones away from NP, I don't want to run all the way to NP to see if anyone is selling what I want, run around NP targetting every PC I see and worrying over "what if I didn't see the one person who has the item I want because they were off the beaten path" or some such... This way I could find the item, find the player name, send them a tell to let them know I want it and am on the way so to hold it, and make my way there... Heck, if postmaster could deliver plat, you could even deliver your plat to the character, and they could deliver your item to you... still player interaction, still talking, and you still may have to run a ways to get to a postmaster, but wouldn't require you to run across 8-10 zones or whatever.

Just some thoughts. Personally, I've not sold or bought anything using the old or new vendor systems, but I imagine once I DO have some plat and/or some decent stuff to sell, I'd much rather have an interface that quickly allows me to find out if what I want is out there, even if I do have to travel to get it once I do find it.. Maybe not do the postmaster thing, since having to travel for the item really does make it where you have to really want the item... it re-inforces the expansiveness of the game since you'd have to run/walk/boat/etc to get the item, but at least you'd know it's going to be there when you get there.
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I like the idea of being able to search what the people that are *ONLINE* have in their Listing Vault. This idea seems to have all of the interaction requirements, and yet still allow you to exp and what not normally and just receive a tell if someone wants to buy something. As it stands right now even though I have items in my Listing Vault how would anyone know to check it if i don't auction to tell them that I have items for sale. I am not a fan of the full bazaar concept from live, but the global listing portion would be a nice counterpart to the new system.
 
The only reason I do not butcher the people who piss me off and leave their bleeding corpses in the street is... I do not want to go to jail.
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If that's your way to argue "valid" points you may have done it again.

@topic

someone already mentioned it: people who dont play in the main times (like me and other europeans) may have a problem w/o a automated system. Will see how it starts to work though. ;)
 
Wiz said:
I will probably be adding a /cm to add yourself to a list of currently online people that are selling things, as a easy reference when you are browsing people for buyables, but we don't want automatic selling/buying. We just don't.
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Hmm, ok, an alternative to the "tradeskill item vendor" idea that gets rid of the automatic buying:

Have a "Broker" NPC in towns that only lists items of people who are online and have paid a small weekly(?) fee to be listed.

It doesn't sell the item, but it could allow you limited search capabilities (limited to whatever you think appropriate). It would reduce the number of server requests (I think?), allow people to see who is selling what without going to the bank and spamming a list of players, take some money out of the economy, and reduce the inconvenience of buying/selling without reducing the interactivity.

So you would be able to look up who is selling plate armor today, and if they are on, you can send them a tell and arrange to meet them. Depending on how far you want to go, you could even have tradeskill specific ones. The Blacksmithing broker would list which Smiths were available, and what they had to sell, but would not actually sell anything.

Thinking it over, the best way to implement this would probably be without an automatic search function. Instead the NPC just lists people online and selling stuff in a particular category (people pay different NPCs to be listed in different...lists), BUT this NPC has the same (/cm listsold playername) capability that bankers have. You could have one for each tradeskill and then a few general ones for different 'levels' of loot being sold.

Downsides: People listing themselves on the wrong vendors, people who sell widely varying types/levels of gear would be forced to pay more. (edit: another downside, it doesn't do anything to address the issue of different time zones)

Upside: increased convenience without reducing interaction, reduced server load (maybe?), and it'd make South Newport seem less lonely and deserted ;(
 
The ability to complete trades via a postmaster type system would be great. You will still need to work out the terms by speakign with the buyer/seller but would not have to physically be online at the same time, in the same zone, to make the trade.

Just an idea.
 
aarielly said:
The ability to complete trades via a postmaster type system would be great. You will still need to work out the terms by speakign with the buyer/seller but would not have to physically be online at the same time, in the same zone, to make the trade.

Just an idea.
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I love this idea.

Person X goes to the post master and Hands him an item. Then Types "I wish to sell to Person Y for 50"

Person Y then goes to the post master and Hails him and is told "Person X has sent you ITEM for a Fee of 50 platnium. Would you like to accept this item?"

Person Y then says "I will accept the item from Person X" and is debited 50pp.

Then Person X can go to the postmaster and collect his cash or it could just be put into their bank directly, and if the item isn't collected within 24 hours then it is returned to the seller.

EDIT: This would also allow someone on an alt to buy something with their main by telling the seller the name of the person who will be collecting the item, or allow someone the time to go farm that extra 10pp they need to buy an item.
 
This is the only MMORPG that i've played. I never even played live. i've seen people play WoW, FFXI and others. i happen to be a fan of the auction house system. I know an e-bay esque system is difficult, but a place where everyone can list items and it is easily accessable. While that limits player to player interaction, it stiill means tailors and blacksmiths can list goods and players can find them in a reasonable method.
 
Well atleast this way sellers will be more willing to drop the price on something to get it out of thier hands unlike with the vendors where the player could just put the item up at a rediculous price and forget about it.
 
Tryfaen said:
Well atleast this way sellers will be more willing to drop the price on something to get it out of thier hands unlike with the vendors where the player could just put the item up at a rediculous price and forget about it.
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Actually I Increased my prices since I have to sit around and auction them and there is less accessability to items.

EDIT: Not less accessability overall mind you, but now that you have to be online to sell your items there is less possible sellers at any given time of day.
 
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