Necromancer runic pet
- Thread starter Banna
- Start date
Silosobi
Dalayan Pious Diety
I think he means the FC/insideous infection changes?
I think necros are better off now than they were before (other than not being OP AE DPS) Their dps isn't the best, but they dont have to rely on FC anymore. I think it would be neat to see some of their utility roles upgraded later in the game, as that was a huge part of what makes the class powerful (group mana/life/power taps, debuffs, etc)
I think necros are better off now than they were before (other than not being OP AE DPS) Their dps isn't the best, but they dont have to rely on FC anymore. I think it would be neat to see some of their utility roles upgraded later in the game, as that was a huge part of what makes the class powerful (group mana/life/power taps, debuffs, etc)
mechkl
Dalayan Elder
i think if would be totally cool to give the necro runic pet a spell like the og clicky item had b4 with tones down damage... but that was a splurt dot that got better longer it was on... make it cast it every few mins and not over right itself. aside from mana issues tho the necro pet seems really cool. maybe more pet gear focuesed on them would be cool, but staff of magi is like thier best friend.
I never liked how the pet's behavior turned out (it's an awful hardcoded mess, should be scripted now that that's a realistic option); maybe take out the pet mana system and make it a little less bursty, more in line with normal pets but with the added benefits of not being in melee and using lifetaps when it makes sense.
mechkl
Dalayan Elder
oh please!!! im sure necromancers would love you forever!
on a side note, maybe one of the less commonly used mage forms ( *cough* earth form) could make thier pet function like that =p, so i dont have to steal my friends necromancers to use an awesome mechanic like this.
Boehm
Dalayan Elder
Look at the pet as a raid pet and it's worth it. It averages 60-80 more dps then the relic. The variance is due to encounter duration as shorter is better because it runs oom after about 6 minutes. It's balance seems mostly right as it parses in less then a mage or beast, which I think is appropriate.
As far as a nerf, there wasn't one nerf. HB was nerfed multiple times and as one of the two players who could use it at full potential, it was somewhat bonkers. I did over 11000 dps in the right group situations complete healing groups with kills. It was useless on raids, except boss fights where because it of its re-proc amounted to about 1/4 to a third of my total boss dps. At the time, my dps was competitive but rarely number one. There were also fights it didnt work on because of phasiing or high disease resists. It also didnt stack between necs. And in its final form, was terrible.
Finally, insidous (whatever it was) only worked for HB and never worked (rarely) properly for scitterpox. So once hb was changed there was no point to it. Scitterpox basically proced on melee group members nearly 100% of time ( with red message) and spreading to an actual npc was something of a notable event, almost an anomaly.
On FC, it was over powered and raids boxed necs to bosses to cast fc and succor back to the entrance to rez if they wiped. This was frankly bullshit. then there was not stacking, waiting on a timer blah blah...
we basically got fc's dps put into our dots base damage and now we control it completely. Bad parse, that was you, not fc being down.
Overall, the "nerf" has come into being a pretty solid re-balance that amounts to being competitive but only occasionally number one. Also, everything necs have except heal recourses stack so bringing a second or third doesn't amount to a cut of 1/3 to 1/2 of the second necs dps.
Necs can do their full dps all the time without waiting on a 35 minute timer or worrying what to cast since a second nec is in the raid.
I think the class is better then it ever has been, though I am not going to tell you that HB in the day wasn't fun as hell. But that was mainly because it was so crazy dangerous. It was about the only thing that could get me instagibbed outside of a raid and that tension is kind of fun.
As far as a nerf, there wasn't one nerf. HB was nerfed multiple times and as one of the two players who could use it at full potential, it was somewhat bonkers. I did over 11000 dps in the right group situations complete healing groups with kills. It was useless on raids, except boss fights where because it of its re-proc amounted to about 1/4 to a third of my total boss dps. At the time, my dps was competitive but rarely number one. There were also fights it didnt work on because of phasiing or high disease resists. It also didnt stack between necs. And in its final form, was terrible.
Finally, insidous (whatever it was) only worked for HB and never worked (rarely) properly for scitterpox. So once hb was changed there was no point to it. Scitterpox basically proced on melee group members nearly 100% of time ( with red message) and spreading to an actual npc was something of a notable event, almost an anomaly.
On FC, it was over powered and raids boxed necs to bosses to cast fc and succor back to the entrance to rez if they wiped. This was frankly bullshit. then there was not stacking, waiting on a timer blah blah...
we basically got fc's dps put into our dots base damage and now we control it completely. Bad parse, that was you, not fc being down.
Overall, the "nerf" has come into being a pretty solid re-balance that amounts to being competitive but only occasionally number one. Also, everything necs have except heal recourses stack so bringing a second or third doesn't amount to a cut of 1/3 to 1/2 of the second necs dps.
Necs can do their full dps all the time without waiting on a 35 minute timer or worrying what to cast since a second nec is in the raid.
I think the class is better then it ever has been, though I am not going to tell you that HB in the day wasn't fun as hell. But that was mainly because it was so crazy dangerous. It was about the only thing that could get me instagibbed outside of a raid and that tension is kind of fun.
Banna
Dalayan Beginner
Thanks for the reply and detailed description of this runic, Boehm.
When I started playing here as a Necromancer, I saw the class specific tomes and runic spells as a huge plus to the Necromancer class. However, while I grinded away and made myself able to have these abilities, I watched them dwindle away before my eyes. Without looking it up, I probably have half of your hitpoints, and I really need that melee relic to protect me in box and group situations. Does the runic pet deliver as a "speedbump" in the same respect as relic?
Dread lich, the replacement for festering curse. While I do enjoy the ability, I really think that death without being in combat, or a healer is going a bit too far. We already have lifeburn for that gamble.
And I actually have another question that is completely off topic, why were necro class tomes revamped when there are so many other classes who have slim to none class tome at all?
When I started playing here as a Necromancer, I saw the class specific tomes and runic spells as a huge plus to the Necromancer class. However, while I grinded away and made myself able to have these abilities, I watched them dwindle away before my eyes. Without looking it up, I probably have half of your hitpoints, and I really need that melee relic to protect me in box and group situations. Does the runic pet deliver as a "speedbump" in the same respect as relic?
Dread lich, the replacement for festering curse. While I do enjoy the ability, I really think that death without being in combat, or a healer is going a bit too far. We already have lifeburn for that gamble.
And I actually have another question that is completely off topic, why were necro class tomes revamped when there are so many other classes who have slim to none class tome at all?
That was one of them. Plus the resist changes inspired the replacement for it, iirc.
edit: also, I think you can survive Dread Lich outside of combat without a healer, as long as you have positive HP regen at the time. It'll just take you from 100% to ~1%. Unless that was changed since I put it in! The risk and need to use it in combat was a major part of the idea behind it though. It shouldn't just be free mana.
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Boehm
Dalayan Elder
The runic pet is a caster dps pet and doesn't generate enough aggro to hold a mobs attention. It has the roughly the same health and can actually handle a physical hit better, but its not designed to snap aggro off you the way a melee pet can. If you are outside a raid or not killing a high health named, you will want to keep the relic pet out.
I like Dread Lich, the only issue I have with it is I think that the return should be 8-10% higher resulting in 33 - 35 % return. If you aren't in combat then you don't need it. You have lich to regen mana and even in a group a healer should be happy to pop you a hot to keep your dps stable at a higher level. I use it on raids when taking 5 k aoes and that is enough to keep me up. Your lifetap should be hitting for @ 1500 base and that should be fine for keeping you alive if the healer is bad. Though really if a healer won't toss you hot, ask them to send me a tell.
To understand why insidious infection got changed, you would have to understand how HB worked initially and how it worked at the end. Initially, HB at tome 4 had a unlimited chance to spread with a 40% chance to reproc for each ticking element for each mob in its range. I actually got to think of it as an aura (lols), which it was when it was up.
Combine that with a sk casting veil and you xp $$, because the sk could pull 20 mobs in citadel and I would blow them up. I won't get into kiting remnants where it was possible to basically pull and kill all the non-summoning mobs in parts of the zone at one time. I did this a couple times, glorax did it a lot. It resulted in DF a third of the time because of stuns, but the other 2/3ds was fairly op. Now the real money was to box fuwok and pull 40 -50 mobs to him, you didn't need a healer, he never dropped below 80 % and once it got rolling he was 100 % until the end.
So for this and other things HB was made into a a 6 target aoe with no chance of reproc. At this point, II became meaningless with not working at all well with scitterpox. So it was change to what it is now, which is really good for necs and is part of our heritage of having significant spell penetration.
The mana group return on sap was changed because it was possible to aggro greens and insta-fill your groups mana bars. Really this probably blows at lower level play but its not a huge change later on when you will be killing more high health mobs. It was probably also changed because it was possible to complete heal and mana groups with HB under what might be otherwise trying circumstances. Also, think of the result scaling to difficulty which is more appropriate. Also, without the old HB, this is kind of a once in a blue moon thing since we really aren't set up for kill shots anyway.
The pet mimic tap hasn't changed. Which is fine, its really a cool pet toy rather then any dps. I just use to see if i can time toby getting the kill shot in groups for a little mini game. Its pretty uncommon, but kind of neat when it happens. Its of little use keeping the pet alive since twelve seconds is too long to wait if he is in peril, if it even procs. it does work well if you are kiting mobs with a damage shield to keep his health up, though i really use a lifeflow for that. Also,charm pets proc the tap, which is funny but results in brief but significant degradation of dps.
Also, toby has wiped a raid with it which was hilarious since he was on pet hold. Yeah, the proc works through pet hold lolol. Every one cheered up when bango asked who the dipshit was and I said Toby.
** Zaela is correct as well.
I like Dread Lich, the only issue I have with it is I think that the return should be 8-10% higher resulting in 33 - 35 % return. If you aren't in combat then you don't need it. You have lich to regen mana and even in a group a healer should be happy to pop you a hot to keep your dps stable at a higher level. I use it on raids when taking 5 k aoes and that is enough to keep me up. Your lifetap should be hitting for @ 1500 base and that should be fine for keeping you alive if the healer is bad. Though really if a healer won't toss you hot, ask them to send me a tell.
To understand why insidious infection got changed, you would have to understand how HB worked initially and how it worked at the end. Initially, HB at tome 4 had a unlimited chance to spread with a 40% chance to reproc for each ticking element for each mob in its range. I actually got to think of it as an aura (lols), which it was when it was up.
Combine that with a sk casting veil and you xp $$, because the sk could pull 20 mobs in citadel and I would blow them up. I won't get into kiting remnants where it was possible to basically pull and kill all the non-summoning mobs in parts of the zone at one time. I did this a couple times, glorax did it a lot. It resulted in DF a third of the time because of stuns, but the other 2/3ds was fairly op. Now the real money was to box fuwok and pull 40 -50 mobs to him, you didn't need a healer, he never dropped below 80 % and once it got rolling he was 100 % until the end.
So for this and other things HB was made into a a 6 target aoe with no chance of reproc. At this point, II became meaningless with not working at all well with scitterpox. So it was change to what it is now, which is really good for necs and is part of our heritage of having significant spell penetration.
The mana group return on sap was changed because it was possible to aggro greens and insta-fill your groups mana bars. Really this probably blows at lower level play but its not a huge change later on when you will be killing more high health mobs. It was probably also changed because it was possible to complete heal and mana groups with HB under what might be otherwise trying circumstances. Also, think of the result scaling to difficulty which is more appropriate. Also, without the old HB, this is kind of a once in a blue moon thing since we really aren't set up for kill shots anyway.
The pet mimic tap hasn't changed. Which is fine, its really a cool pet toy rather then any dps. I just use to see if i can time toby getting the kill shot in groups for a little mini game. Its pretty uncommon, but kind of neat when it happens. Its of little use keeping the pet alive since twelve seconds is too long to wait if he is in peril, if it even procs. it does work well if you are kiting mobs with a damage shield to keep his health up, though i really use a lifeflow for that. Also,charm pets proc the tap, which is funny but results in brief but significant degradation of dps.
Also, toby has wiped a raid with it which was hilarious since he was on pet hold. Yeah, the proc works through pet hold lolol. Every one cheered up when bango asked who the dipshit was and I said Toby.
** Zaela is correct as well.
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I've died to it out of combat. 100% health to start. Kept thinking, ok it's gonna wear off any moment now .... Staffros has been slain by Staffros. I don't use it alot in raids, I rarely run oom or even so low mana on raids that I need it; but I do on occasion, moreso to cap my mana. Mostly on xp grinds where the pulling is constant and we have a good enough healer with enough mana and gracious enough to throw me a hot is when I use it. When I'm boxing my druid or duoing with my son's cleric when questing/farming, I use it.
If I were to suggest a type of fix for that (provided the couple of deaths I've taken to Dread Lich wasn't just some glich/fluke), I think I'd suggest make it where it has two thresholds to wear off and which ever is reached first is when the effect wears off. One being duration limit. The other when the necro reaches 1% health.
I will say, I've only died using it a couple times and that was when FC was removed and Dread Lich was first available. So, it could have been tweaked since then to reduce/illiminate the amount of non-combat deaths from using it.
Rari
Game Master
I don't know, man. I just logged in on Arianne, dropped all buffs and hit Dread Lich when I was at full health and ended at 57 health. Kind of hard to believe you'd have different results /w higher regen, so maybe give it another try?
Either way, this is a dangerous skill and shouldn't be used recklessly. Its handy in XP situations as long as you let your healer know before you use it. It would probably only be viable in a raid situation if you're going OOM, and even then only if you're in a burn phase AND if your healers are flush on mana (and you've let them know.) So many ifs make this a very conditional skill, not a "must-use" like FC was, which seems like what was intended.
WITH a healer backing you, getting 25% mana back that fast is sweet as hell.
Either way, this is a dangerous skill and shouldn't be used recklessly. Its handy in XP situations as long as you let your healer know before you use it. It would probably only be viable in a raid situation if you're going OOM, and even then only if you're in a burn phase AND if your healers are flush on mana (and you've let them know.) So many ifs make this a very conditional skill, not a "must-use" like FC was, which seems like what was intended.
WITH a healer backing you, getting 25% mana back that fast is sweet as hell.