my view on the Req lvl for all weapons

As a relatively new and low level player to SoD, I am still testing it out and seeing if I'd like to donate/subscribe to the game. I imagine this makes my opinion not as valued as that of more veteran players / subscribers, but that's how it works and I'm fine with it.

Having said that, I just wanted to state that the idea of minimum levels on items is definitely not pleasing to me. As was mentioned before, it does a lot to reduce variety of characters in the game and that kind of irks me. I'm also one of those amoral people who enjoys twinking, so that's another strike against it for me. However, I spent about half a year working as a DM on a semi-popular persistant NWN module and we eventually had to utilize required levels to keep a bit of balance in the game. I understand why this was done, so I won't be spouting off communistic accusations against Wiz or saying SoD has gone to hell. The designer(s) (I'll admit I don't know how decision making is done in SoD about policies like this, but I imagine Wiz wouldn't act alone without at least consulting others of the staff) had a reason for this change and while I don't fully agree with it, they ARE the designers and I'm a player. It's not my world.

However, as a player, I felt I had the priviledge of voicing my opinion on the matter. Boo to level requirements :)
 
Credit to the staff where it is due... every player is equal in their eyes. Subscriber status, veteran status... you get a thank you and the server stays online. I have posted elsewhere on the incredible benefit of the silver subscriber item, but none of it carries weight in an arguement. It's a little bit irritating when it is against you, but when you are thinking clearly, not so bad. Pretty nice, actually.

Now, about level requirements on weapons, sympathy is a bit harder to come up with. The must be an influx of new twinks, because /auc was filling up with people in centaur hills wanting replacements for equipment that drop in level 40s and 50s zone. Not looking to buy that equipment, looking for somethign to replace it because it just wasn't getting the job done. Twinking is one of those things people do not want to outright ban, but it still should be done behind closed doors. When you do it in the open, it's like screaming for someone to do something about it.

And who is supposed to be sympathetic? Other melees may feel your pain. I speak from experience where I had one mid levels warrior main tanking. I discovered later that he was wearing cloth in three places, /auc for a replacement for his sword. Your healers really want you to have some armor.

Casters, both Int and Wis, are generally going to look at you with a black stare, in any case. A few might be looking at Wiz for why there are no level requirements on armor. You see, level requirements are nothing new to us. Unlike you, we have been intimate with them since 99. And let us be honest, you melees have not been above scolding casters for not having their entire new set of spells purchased and ready to load when we ding. We can now retaliate any time we find a melee using a weapon older than three levels. It costs us 12 inventory slots, you only one. Suck it up, big guy.

Every single one of our spells has a level requirement. Do you have any idea how hard it is to heal a group at level 28 with a heal spell that does 99? Do you have any clue how it feels to spend 5 seconds casing a spell that does 200 damage at level 40?

And this is just damage spells. If our nukes are like your weapons, then are our buffs not like your armor? Our buffs have a level requirement. Your armor does not. Yet. Keep complaining and we will see what support we can drum up to fix that oversight.

Logically, the caster's case is very strong. You put on the equipment, head out, and use it as often as you like, whenever you like. Casters are contrained by mana. Even if a wizard got ahold of a Ice Comet at level 1, he still could not use it until the 30s because of the mana cost.

One may argue the damage cap. This is a flawed arguement. The damage cap prevented only maximum damage per hit, never maximum dps. This merely shifted the desirability from large damage weapons to extreme delay weapons... the faster the weapon, the lower the damage given the same ratio, and the best chance of not being affected by the damage cap.

So, yeah, this was a little tongue in cheek. But all the same, the facts are there. Isn't complaining about the required levels just a little bit silly?
 
Mogger said about all I can say on the subject as well. WTG Mogger, you are right, melee are whining about weapon constraints when they really should consider what others have for constraints in game. Having played a healing class since I started on Live way back when, I always had to chuckle at the melee twink screaming for another heal when I only have 2k mana and can only heal his twinked 2500 HPs for 99 dmg :p
 
Mastercrafted weapons requirements?

Please correct me if I'm wrong as I haven't been on since the change, but I've been told the mastercrafted 1 handers now have a 20 odd level requirement?

I can understand the need for required levels on items to keep mudflation in check, and though I enjoyed a twink or two on live, can udnerstand most peoples feelings against them.

One thing that pops to mind though, if a MC 1 hander has a req level of 20, and is an 8/26 ratio with 2ac (think thats correct) ala the spear and war hammer which I use on my 12 bard... do you consider that to be the correct/accurate level to have that ratio weapon? Seems considerably high when you can easily kill a 8-10 named rat for a 7/25 with disease cloud proc. 10+ levels over level appropriate content drops for an additional 1 dmg, 1 dly, and 2 ac... if anything I see that as being a major blow to the market for smithed weapons. Why save up and buy that weapon when you can get one practically equivalent for free (time camping excluded) 10 levels earlier?

Again, if I was incorrectly informed on the levels of those weapons, disregard this, but if not, I feel this is a valid concern when it comes to both gear optiosn available for a leveling char and a viable market for smith made items.
 
re

Hi,

I am also a new member here. Plure talked in another post of a group of 40-41 in miel b it was us and we was able to kill that named in old AM spot. I could use the weapon it was not lvl 55 req (that 275 proc one) But as I lvled up I saw item that I couldnt use that I could have bought, and about 1-2 times where a item dropped we couldnt use right away. I dont know how it will be at higher lvl but our group usually try to fight in really red mob area (even if we die a couple of time to get a named) none of us are twinked since we are 6 new here. Hopefully we wont meet a lvl 60 req weapon at lvl 52 because we are just trying harder then some other in dungeons...

Sald Silvermoon
Dlas Silvermoon
 
I would like to ask a question about one item, the reward for the voice of the centaur quest. I finally finished the quest today and noticed that the level requirement on it was 55. I understand that the level req's were based on dmg ratio, but this item is a no-drop quest reward for a ~lvl40 quest. I was just wondering if there were any plans to tweak the required levels on some gear.

Thanks,
Asai
 
Wiz and the Staff have said that they will be reviewing items to make sure the level req is fitting for them. I am sure when they get going on that they will have a post for items to be examined or some system.
 
Do not take this as a complaint, nor as a threat of me leaving or whatnot, but pretty much the only reason I play my main now is to twink my numerous and sporaticly played alts.

Sure you can get level 65 (i'm not 65 actualy, 63 necro), and have a ton of AA's, but really, what do you have? A character that's only purpose now is to raid get better gear. You get better gear to raid more mobs, that you use to get more gear, etc. That is not what I find fun. though I can most certainly see that can be fun to alot of people.

My only reason in having a high level character is to twink my low level alts. Hell, on live, I used my monk to twink my necro out, but my monk was only level 30 when that started. Why? Because it gave my monk a reason to stay in dalnir even after getting the cresent armor and fighting batons. If i did not have that reason, I wouldnt have stayed there, and would have missed out on the most fun I ever had on live. *That was back during Kunark*

Sure, I agree that there are some weapons out there, such as the staff of the unyielding, that needs to be restricted. I do not wish to see a level 1 with a 55/30 2hb either. I do not mind seeing, however, a level 5 with a bergs basher, a mastercrafted whatnot, or a_random_weapon with 14/28 for a melee char.

I can see that my argument can be easily broken down into a childish rant of "i wannaah," but it's not just that. I feel that I speak for a small minority, though a measurable one, of casual or semi casual players who share my idea of what fun is in this and other mmorpgs. An over-restrictive level requirement system is, in my opinion, a restriction on my and some other people's fun.
 
Just some food for thought.

From the monk fist damage table
zodium said:
* Level 1: 6/30
* Level 6: 7/30
* Level 15: 8/30
* Level 20: 9/30
* Level 25: 9/29
* Level 30: 10/28
* Level 35: 10/27
* Level 40: 11/26
* Level 45: 11/25
* Level 50: 12/24
* Level 53: 12/23
* Level 56: 12/22
* Level 59: 12/21
* Level 60: 12/20
* Level 63: 13/19
* Level 65: 13/18
Click to expand...
Monks are a melee DPS class, and until the very high end game (i.e. high end raid gear) their fists are meant to be their primary DPS weapon, surpassing 1hb weapons. That would suggest, then, that these ratios are at the upper end of the intended weapon ratios for the given levels, in terms of mob balance.
 
Asai said:
I would like to ask a question about one item, the reward for the voice of the centaur quest. I finally finished the quest today and noticed that the level requirement on it was 55. I understand that the level req's were based on dmg ratio, but this item is a no-drop quest reward for a ~lvl40 quest. I was just wondering if there were any plans to tweak the required levels on some gear.
Click to expand...

After the patch, they said specifically that Bows level requirements were way off, so I'd expect the requirement on your Voice of the Centaur to be changed before long. Grats on all that faction too. ;)
 
I'm sure the bows are being looked at, but I wanted to mention that the Crystalline bow is set as lvl 55 as well. I'm sure it's based on the fact that it's 30/40, has 15 to all resists and procs (I think) Spirit Strike (although it VERY rarely procs). Anyway, could this be set to 45 or 50 perhaps? My rogue is 47 right now and was using it, but now I can't. Not a big deal in the short term, but by the time I'm 55 I can't see using that...and I think most rangers would probably be looking for something better by then. Just an opinion/request. :)

All in all though I agree with the lvl req.s on weapons. I twinked just about all my characters, but I'm fine with not being able to do it any more. I'll still have fun. :)

I would recommend also that level req's be relaxed for "weapons" that melee and hybrids can't use since I don't see their ratio being a big factor to a healer or caster. Not removed, but maybe less than that of melee stuff. And yes, I primarily play melee or hybrid. :)
 
Its been brought up already, but could somebody please explain why this thought would not hold up/is a bad one?

Recomended levels cater for those who know how to save money, they cater for variety, and personally they seem like they fit everyones needs here. There are those weapons that need a required level, i wont deny that, and there always have been such weapons in the game. Giving your level 1 alt a weapon that is recomended for a level 20 - is it still considered twinking now that the recomended level diminishes its power? They would get nowhere near the full power out of that weapon as compared to somebody that meets the recomendation. Of course there would still be debate at which level the recomendation should be placed, but surely more people would be happy? It seems to meet alot more peoples needs, maybe its ahrd to implement?

Casn somebody please logically and civily explain to me the cons so i can understand? Thanks
 
level req

:? Quested Weps should be usable at the level you are able to quest the item solo thats my thinking on req'd levels
 
I'm a level 24 druid. As a caster, this new lvl requirement thing doesn't really affect me, other than the fact that if I were to take off my foremans cord, I wouldn't be able to put it back on for 2 levels. I would be out on a whole 2 WIS and Mana conservation1 !!! Well... thats actually not too bad. Infact, its not bad at all because with all of the other slots that I have, I could probably save up a little plat and upgrade one of my other slots.

I think its a little different for melee classes though. As a member of the priest group, I rarely use my weapon anymore so it's just another slot to increase my casting stats, but for a warrior or other melee class, its a determining factor that decides whether they win or lose the battle. I think that level requirements arent necessarily a bad idea, but it should be done so that melee classes can still solo. Since there is a shortage of melee characters on this server, I think that things that nerf the melee class specifically might make people even less inclined to play them in the future, offsetting the balance of melee/caster players in the game more.

As a 24 druid, I'm capable of soloing yellows and reds by using techniques like kiting and rotting.... At level 17, I dont think my Shadowknight could solo a white without getting his ass kicked. And thats with my druid "twinking" him with low lvl sk items.

I didn't see anybody make the point on the server's melee/caster ratio yet, so I thought Id put in my 2 cents.
 
Luther Flame said:
Its sucks because now no high level can pass what we would consider junk weapons onto low level players.
Click to expand...

No rampant mudflation? My word! The doomsday is upon us!
 
I think the req lvls are a great idea. My main problem with it is that with this market saturation it will be way to easy for every single melee to have the best possible weapon. I think the solution is actually to retroactively nerf the ratios of low and mid lvl weapons so that gaining a weapon that matches your lvl is more of an accomplishment.

Also i think some of the mobs that drop nice items should be made into single groupable adepts with dropable loot. This will help maintain challenge and inhibit twinking while still giving you something to strive for that you wont have to delete in 3 lvls. We dont want to turn this game into WoW.
 
Honestly making it easy to level up in this game would just damage SoD all together. Giving someone of low level high end items enabling them to solo quicker, better, and more efficiently is really not what you want. You maybe think you want this but in the end of the game you will just get boring and everyone will be 65 in no time at all. Basically by leveling a character the hard way you stick to that character and build them up to be the best they can be. What you really want is to be the only low level with ubba gear so people will group with you and look at you with envy imo. Thats just honestly not practical and allowing low levels ubba gear will just spoil the game entirely. I think the game as is already has ubba items that low levels are allowed to use but ultimately shouldn't be able to.
 
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