my view on the Req lvl for all weapons

L

Laksha

Dalayan Beginner
Not here to bitch about it, but to bring some points and hopefully people can logicly bring some more points of arguments to the new system. Personally I dislike the REQ lvl on weapons from drops of mobs that are under lvl 55, I think it got ridiculous when seeing an adept whos max engage lvl is 25 drops a req lvl 26 weapon, and I think it is getting as anal as EQ live. I will suggest is that to instead of putting a REQ lvl on items they should simply do a REC lvl on items.
Many argued that they didn't like seeing Mr.LVL1running around with sword of UBER, but they dont realize that that lvl 1 had a couple of lvl 60's that had to lvl up the hardway in order to afford or get that weapon, dosent that person deserves a break? perhaps those jealous people should focus on lvling so they can get those weapons to and perhaps one day they can twink out their alts.
Also I have noticed a price drop on many weapons ever since the patch, this is not only hurting the lobies twinks, it is also hurting the high lvls who farm those items so they can make money to afford spells or tradeskills. And hurting the ingame economy as a whole.
I hope I have brought good points here, not asking or bitching about it, I'm suggesting that instead of having REQ lvl on items to make them REC and also to be reasonable on the amont of requirent use so you don't have items drops that a lvl 15 group can get be req lvl 27. I'm a firm beliver that twinking is one of the fun things this game has, and if it is a sin then everyone is guilty, and taking it away at no point will make the game better, however controlling how much twinking you can do sounds fare, at least in my oppinion. Thanks.
 
Um...I personally think rec/req's suck ass. If people bitch about my Iksar Monk with Liam's Bo Staff running around soloing the entire dungeon of Black Burrow, let them bitch. People should just realize...a lot of us bust our ass and play this game more than the average player so we can have fun with twinks and not have to worry about "OZMGZOMGZOMGZ LEVEL TO 50 FOR A 2HB!!!!" I mean...its just lame because there goes twinking melee classes and having fun. ;(

But to be honest...I'm just upset because my level 62 Rogue with some pretty nice gear is out dps'd by a 50 Wizard, sometimes 65 Cleric's pet, and a fucking Shadowknight using only his 2hs.
 
Many argued that they didn't like seeing Mr.LVL1running around with sword of UBER, but they dont realize that that lvl 1 had a couple of lvl 60's that had to lvl up the hardway in order to afford or get that weapon, dosent that person deserves a break?
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How do you need a level 60 alt/main to loot something rotting?

It's the exact same argument:

Some high level gear dropped and they ooc it as rotting and a level 1 comes over and loots it.
Some high level gear drops and they log a level 1 alt to loot it. - Same thing. So you can't really say who is more 'deserving'. Either way a 'deserving' or 'non-deserving' lower level is able to get an item, even if it's slightly harder for one than the other.

Level req also prevents overpowered things, ex: someone too low level soloing or tanking something that isn't balanced or intended for that level (using an item that should be level req).

I think it got ridiculous when seeing an adept whos max engage lvl is 25 drops a req lvl 26 weapon
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You shouldn't be able to tank an adept with the weapon or items it drops.
 
dwf-rog-lfg said:
But to be honest...I'm just upset because my level 62 Rogue with some pretty nice gear is out dps'd by a 50 Wizard, sometimes 65 Cleric's pet, and a fucking Shadowknight using only his 2hs.
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A cleric pet out-dpsing a rogue wearing 'pretty nice gear' is horseshit.
Level 50 wizard out-dpsing a level 62 rogue? That's why wizard's are given mana. A level 50 wizard couldn't keep up a level 62 rogue dps for very long, let alone if your both fighting something for xp (red cons resist alot)
Knight classes use two hand blunt to increase dps at the cost of using their shield.


Maybe you should just make a rogue balance thread instead? Since your arguement is that "rogues suck, so twinking is ok!"
 
Most twinkage comes from buying gear and passing it down to your lower lvl character rather than someone swooping in to collect a rotting item. Perhaps Items that are no-drop should have the REQ lvl?
 
Some dropable items still need a level req. as they will allow a character to do things that are unintended or overpowered.
 
Laksha said:
Many argued that they didn't like seeing Mr.LVL1running around with sword of UBER, but they dont realize that that lvl 1 had a couple of lvl 60's that had to lvl up the hardway in order to afford or get that weapon, dosent that person deserves a break?
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No. That arguements about as bad as the driving arguement, "My car goes up to 120, I should be able to drive that fast if I want!" Granted you won't get a ticket in the game, nor kill anyone physically, but the sentiment is there. If you want a break, then don't play another character again. Its not that hard.

perhaps those jealous people should focus on lvling so they can get those weapons to and perhaps one day they can twink out their alts.
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I don't twink my alts, never will again* (see further explanation below). And leveling has nothing to do with it. I don't play an ORPG to level. I play for the roleplay and adventuring that one experiences with either themselves or with others. Leveling is the furtherest from my mind when playing. If that means waiting a few weeks (or maybe a month) to use a weapon that I can't until I'm ?? level, then so be it. I'm not in a hurry to get to such-n-such level anytime soon. Uber-levelers and twinkers tend to be munchkin's... But then again, maybe its the years I'd been playing D&D that ingrained that into my mindset.

I'm a firm beliver that twinking is one of the fun things this game has, and if it is a sin then everyone is guilty, and taking it away at no point will make the game better, however controlling how much twinking you can do sounds fare, at least in my oppinion.
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That's fine. Personally I detest twinking. *I won't lie, I did twink, once. Just to experience the ability to run around and slaying things in a few hits. I won't say it wasn't fun. For the first few hours, at least. But afterwards, it felt shallow and empty. It lacked any semblence to achieving any goals that I had set for my character. It more or less lost its competitive feel for level vs level effect. It felt akin to running into a playground of 6-year olds and beating them up. What's the point? Competition equal to, if not a wee above your level, with level appropraite gear allows oneself to enjoy the conquering feeling knowing you went toe-to-toe with something without having to resort to the big guns that one would not normally have.

But like you... At least in my opinion. Thanks.
 
The req levels should, IMO, be halved roughly, for things from 30-50 or so, and removed for loot from sub-30 mobs. Those items sell very cheaply (usually 5-30 plat), and that's the stuff a level 10 character could legitimately be buying. You don't buy gear that something your level drops, you camp that. You buy stuff that you can't get yet. Take Spiked Warclub of the Clan for example - that's a 5-10pp weapon. A level 5 who's a little industrious could have one of those if they bought it from a player. Now it's req. level 26. Granted, that makes no sense anyway, since it's obtainable in a group as a drop by 20, but things like that don't need req levels at all. They're not uber items, it's a, 8-24 - that's a 1-3 ratio, and has a crappy proc that hardly ever fires. Mastercrafted weapons are another example. They sell for 2-5pp, generally. What's wrong with a level 1 character killing bats, selling the bat blood, and buying a mastercrafted weapon? Required level now, on the 1h ones.

I guess my point is, having req levels that're similar to the level you'd need to be to obtain it as a drop (on non-no-drop stuff only) is a little harsh - I know I for one would never buy equipment that I could camp as well, unless it was a highly contested camp or horribly long one. Now, as far as weapons go (the most important piece of equipment to a low level melee-oriented character, bar none), that's impossible.

Something like Blade of Spiritual Infusion (now req level 26) is very reasonable - those sell for over 100pp, and while that's possible to achieve sub-26 from things like the aforementioned bat blood or Dire Leaves or whatnot, you'll be pretty close by the time you could afford it anyway. I'm talking about the cheap, commonly dropped stuff that sells for next to nothing.
 
its hard enough to level up ,buying a decent 50+ for cash
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Ok, this is 10 times easier than live to level up. XP bonus for groups is amazing. Weapons are unique and interesting. And while the req level bites me in the azz too, I can understand why they did it. The charm of SoD is the work in leveling and playing. You have to try, you have to learn your class and your limits.

For me, I can't twink my 22 rogue with a 14/27 dagger now. I would have loved too, but he would have been incredibly overpowered. This makes sense on 99 of 100 weapons it was done on. They are going to review each one to make sure it is appropiate.

Accept it people, if you want it easy then you want a server where you can summon items and set your own level. That does not seem to be SoD.
 
Twinking is fun, but it damages the integrity of the game more than anything else. When you can have a high level character DSing, buffing, and healing a lower level character while they run around with a vorpal blade of smackass, it devalues the experience for others who actually have to work at it. Between the recent changes to heal aggro, incoming perma changes, and these level reqs, it's clear that Wiz is trying to make levelling meaningful by discouraging power levelling and rampant twinking.
 
I think the problem most people have is with lower level weapons. Personally I like the idea of no requirements on weapons that drop from mobs under 30. Even some decently good weapons like Iced Edge I was able to obtain by level 12 on my warrior just from killing and looting and eventually making 50pp to buy it. This is mainly going to hurt the economy of the game because there won't be any market for low-mid level weapons any more.
 
He should make it so anything over 1/2 or 2/3 ratio has a level req, 1/3 is 2 much; just my opinion
 
Widan said:
Even some decently good weapons like Iced Edge I was able to obtain by level 12 on my warrior just from killing and looting and eventually making 50pp to buy it.
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That's a good point. Some people are able to achieve the wealth necessary to get better weapons honestly through trade skills and hard work, and they're no longer going to be able to use that wealth to it's full advantage anymore. For instance, I recall the Spiked Warclub of the Clan being a somewhat crap weapon at the level you need to get it, but a talented tradeskiller could easily save up the necessary plat to buy it at a much lower level than it's current requirement of 24.

I like the level requirements, and I think they should stay, but they should perhaps be relaxed a bit especially at the lower end. People are going to be upset with any level req, but if they were 2/3 of what they are now, I think it would be a better balance of free enterprise / twink prevention.
 
So far, most of the points I have read agree with my own, I am some what of a newb here and recently was able to afford a few weaps. One of which was a Bancak (sp?) Claw... Ok, Nice weap, Damage 8 Delay 23. No stats, no proc. But a good solid weap. I am a lvl 11 Warrior, yet, this weapon now has a lvl req of like 26'ish. By the time I get to that lvl, I will probably have better weapons. I have to agree with the previous posters. relax this ruling a little. I understand the need for it, and more or less agree. But it does seem to be cutting us at the neck a little. Maybe more so at the newer players who are coming up in this world.
 
I don't have a problem with the level req. on weapons/items ... but from just the little I have seen some of them might be a little too high, but I know they are reviewing items still, etc.

On the flip side, I do see what people mean about there not being a selection/variety of items anymore. Example: Now all Warriors will just have a Mithril Long Sword until Level 20, then from 20 - 25 they will always have Sword A, 26-31 Sword B, etc. With MANY items with level reqs. it will lower the variety of equiped characters. As long as the level req. is done properly this could be avoided, but how can you try to ensure balance vs. reward.

I'm not sure, but I almost get the sense it was put in to stop "twinking" and then tweak it as it best fits the level progression of characters.

On a side note with the level req ... I assume it was added based on an algorithm/query? If so maybe certain values need a lesser/greater weighted value to come up with the required level.

Xardon
 
The lvl reqs are, in a sense, communism. They force everyone to be the same so that no one may stand out, no one may enjoy the fruits of their labor, no one may be uber during their short stay in the low levels. How positively delightful.

Were lvl reqs added to encourage grouping? I've seen twinks running around solo being healed by their lvl 65 druid/cleric alt. While this was annoying to see once in a while, it didn't ruin my game experience or make me think OMFG ADD LVL REQS :mad:.

For those who like to group, twinking adds variety to the game and variety = replayability. With lvl reqs, I know that the warrior/monk in my group will predictably have a certain weapon that is the best ratio for their lvl, deal a certain ammount of damage, and all the others will be just like him/her. I also know that if I make a warrior, he will be exactly the same. Predictability = Boring. I like seeing a monk in my group wielding a 2HB of Swift Pulpification sometimes. I like the variety of being able to kill harder mobs as a result. The next time I group, that twink probably wont be there, and it's back to the regular slower/easier grind, which is a change of pace and therefor more fun again.

The main vibe I get from people against twinking just boils down to envy. It's okay to be envious, just understand that that twink was once penniless as well. That twink worked hard on their untwinked first character or two and gained wealth/items that could be applied to their new characters so the next trip through the lvl grind would be different.

Please remove these lvl reqs, twinking is half the fun of this game.
 
A lot of people bitched in a very similar fashion when power leveling was stopped (as in out of group healing, and doing 99% of the dmg to a mob, then feigning or zoning, or what-have-you). You know what came of that change? Extremely fast exp gain for normal folk, because now the power levelers were not counted in the equation. Just have faith that things done in the game are not done to piss you off and instead done for the benefit of the game as a whole.
 
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