Manifistation in prison

its also illegal to use a single char to key in a raid who hasnt dont the encounter yet, if thats what you meant
 
Assuming the door could be lockpicked (and I'm guessing it can't because that would be dumb) would lockpicking a door to dodge an encounter be verboten as well?
 
In the offchance it is somehow possible to pick that prison door then you would still need to kill manis first. It would be skipping content if you didn't.
 
If it would be possible to lockpick that gate it wouldnt be content skipping if you did i think. Though the whole content skipping is a vague matter. I always thought content skipping is things like CoH past mobs or having someone pull everything away and then let everyone move past those mobs before they reset. If there are valid ways of passing mobs i think its ok. A pickable door is pickable for a reason. Mobs you can just walk past without them agroing dont need to be killed afaik.
 
yeah that would def be content skipping as you clearly know that what you do is not supposed to be possible
 
Mirrors aren't easier than Manis, they're just simpler. There's a difference.

Once you have the tanks and healers to do Mirrors, its a given, whereas you can still mess up on Manis even when you are geared past them. It isn't because of difficulty, its because Mirrors are relatively simple. A less geared guild could do Manis if they were coordinated.
 
Brimztone said:
Apparently that is content skipping.
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Shame the rule makers haven't been able to make some clear rules for us (content skipping, raid 'bots' etc - most know the rules roughly, but really, without anything to reference, any punishment for 'breaking' a rule would be entirely unfair unless it was a situation where a warning had already happened.) Walking past non-KoS mobs is content skipping? I don't think so. Who hasn't skipped manis to kill mirrors? (obviously having killed manis in the past).


As for manis vs mirror dif, simpler can mean easier. You really need to be careful making such a generalisation, it can very easily be inaccurate (and is a bad way to argue a point). Certainly Manis need more 'strat' or awareness than mirrors. That has to count towards their 'difficulty' - that's how event creators must consider fights when making them.... Of course, it starts to get complicated - for some executing a strat may be more difficult than for others and so on. Still though, the simplicity of a fight is directly relevant to it's difficulty.
 
phlit said:
Shame the rule makers haven't been able to make some clear rules for us (content skipping, raid 'bots' etc - most know the rules roughly, but really, without anything to reference, any punishment for 'breaking' a rule would be entirely unfair unless it was a situation where a warning had already happened.) Walking past non-KoS mobs is content skipping? I don't think so. Who hasn't skipped manis to kill mirrors? (obviously having killed manis in the past).


As for manis vs mirror dif, simpler can mean easier. You really need to be careful making such a generalisation, it can very easily be inaccurate (and is a bad way to argue a point). Certainly Manis need more 'strat' or awareness than mirrors. That has to count towards their 'difficulty' - that's how event creators must consider fights when making them.... Of course, it starts to get complicated - for some executing a strat may be more difficult than for others and so on. Still though, the simplicity of a fight is directly relevant to it's difficulty.
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No, walking past non kos mobs is not content skipping.
 
phlit said:
As for manis vs mirror dif, simpler can mean easier. You really need to be careful making such a generalisation, it can very easily be inaccurate (and is a bad way to argue a point). Certainly Manis need more 'strat' or awareness than mirrors. That has to count towards their 'difficulty' - that's how event creators must consider fights when making them.... Of course, it starts to get complicated - for some executing a strat may be more difficult than for others and so on. Still though, the simplicity of a fight is directly relevant to it's difficulty.
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Dot dot dot.

The whole point of my post was that simpler can mean easier but it doesn't always. The only generalization I made was that simpler doesn't always mean easier, and that is true. Manis vs. Mirrors is a an example of a case where the simpler even is harder and the more complicated one is easier.

Some more examples from other raid areas:

The first two encounters in Plane of Water have AEs and/or scripted events, while the 4th only has massive dps on the tank. The first two are more complicated, but the 4th is much harder.

Several of the CoD encounters require a great deal of coordination between different people and classes (must be vague b/c no spoilers) whereas the Ritualist is fairly straightforward, but harder.

Even though Manis are more complicated than Mirrors, having done both I still say that Mirrors are harder because they require better geared characters and at least as much attention paid during the fight.
 
hard and easy are all relative, mostly depending on the makeup of your raid and the skill of those in it.
of course by skill, i mean...being not afk and clicking buttons like a trained chimp.

yet, even when overgeared for it, manis can go wrong fast, mirrors....not so much. (minus the obvious nono)
I wish the loot reflected that, but it dosent. (hi2u POS manis robe that no class finds attractive)

Mirrors need 2 geared toons, both of them tanks, the rest of the raid can more or less take a nap and treat it like a 2 pull of trash mobs...kinda.
I see what you are saying, but having an entire raid pay attention and do the right thing is alot harder then gearing a couple of toons imo.

Currently, once a guild has dropped manis for the key, there isnt any great incentive to return to the encounter. That is a shame as its is deffo one of the most interesting, memorable, and potentially frustrating encounters I have been a party to.

As is, I would have to say that Manis is the hardest encounter in OP...by a fairly wide margin, especially considering Taesh's punkbitch status since 2.0
 
Speaking from a standpoint of doing both while being far in excess of the tier, mirrors can still go wrong at that point. Mani's however become a joke imo. As for at the correct tier, dunno.
 
BeittilBonker said:
Well, last night we pretty killed them in an almost perfect manner... i dont think a 'flawed' strategy has anything to do with it here. One odd detail might be tho that i only got summoned during Fire & Vapor, where a a warrior tanked. While we had Earth & Air tanked by a SK :p
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Why not just use a warrior to tank all 4 of them? The 3rd one is easy to intercept on your way to the other side.

Seriously this fight is all about strat and resists, and your wizards/mages using spells that actually kill the elementals in one shot so they don't summon your healers...
 
Your wizards ignore you when you ask for that btw, the only spell that comes close is gelid, and it has a shit recast time and a shit cast time and wont land on all the eles.

Ive told you that before.

There is prolly a whole bunch of strats that work on Manis, none of em wrong so long as they spit up loot at the end.
 
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