Magician Pet Heals

K

Konya

Dalayan Beginner
Suggestion: Increase the healing power of Magicians.

Aim:I'm going to try to take a look at a comparison of the pet-healing abilities of the Beastlord & Magician classes in order to support my suggestion of increasing the healing power of Magicians.

Please note that my knowledge of the Necromancer class & it's heals is not too hot, so please add your own information if you feel it is relevant to the balancing of pet-healing. I also feel that their heals aren't so easily comparable to the other 2 classes as they have more variety in the function of their healing spells.
*Edit: Necro comparison added by Zaknafean in the 3rd reply*

****Edit: A great comparison chart of Beastlord vs Magician heals can be found > here < with many thanks to Trysell
Some visual aids (graphs) of the Healing efficiency of Beastlords vs Mages (including some proposed suggestions) are shown on the 2nd page of this thread.

Case 1: Top-line Pet Heals

Beastlord spell
Name: Sha's Mending (64)
Target: Pet
Function: Increase Hitpoints by 1475 // Decrease Disease Counter by 12
Cast time: 3.0 seconds
Recast time: 10.0 seconds

Magician spell
Name: Til's Elemental Recomposition (64)
Target: Pet
Function: Increase Hitpoints by 1215 // Decrease Disease Counter by 10
Cast time: 3.0 seconds
Recast time: 20.0 seconds

  • Beastlord heal +260hp better than Magician
  • Beastlord heal recast time is half as long as Magician (10 seconds less)
= a clear win for Beastlords

Case 2: Other healing abilities

Beastlord spells
Name: Vigor of Zehkes (49)
Target: Pet
Function: Increase Hitpoints by 910 // Decrease Disease Counter by 10
Cast time: 3.0 seconds
Recast time: 15.0 seconds

Name: Chloroblast (62)
Target: Any
Function: Increase Hitpoints by 428
Cast time: 1.5 seconds
Recast time: None

Magician - none

  • Beastlord gets a 2nd pet-heal on a different (although slightly longer) timer, All Magician heals are on the same timer
  • Beastlord has a targetable fast-heal with no recast
  • Both classes receive a Pet Mend AA
= clear win for Beastlord

Case 3: Healing Increments

This is a topic where I'm not really aware of all the items around that have Healing Increment for these classes.

My assumption (which is probably wrong) is that Beastlords may get put on a few more Clr/Dru/Shm items that have Healing Increment, but I do not know. Please post your thoughts.

**Edit: Link provided by Malleus for the Wiki's Healing Increment Items page > here <

***Edit: Zefar reasoned that Beastlords get Healing AAs which improve their healing (like a healing increment) whereas Magicians don't, leading me to think that Beastlords win on this case 2 if that is relevant.

= leaning to a Beastlord win for Healing AAs.

Summary:

Beastlords have better pet-heals, more of them that they can use together, less recasts & even a targetable heal with no recast. If the intention is that Beastlords should be better pet-healers than Magicians then I don't believe the gap should be this large.
Also although I have not listed it, through the progression of their heals, the Beastlord ones for their level always heal for a significant amount of HP (I can list them out if required)

Suggested Solutions:

I'm not suggesting all of these should be introduced, just any 1-2 of them. This will not make Magicians anywhere near as good at pet-healing as Beastlords, but it's a start

1) Reduce the recast time of Til's Elemental Recomposition (64) to 10.0 seconds
(although I presume this would automatically make it stackable with every other heal...so a similar option is reducing the recast time of the top 3 Magician heals to 10.0 seconds if this suggestion is not possible)
2) Reduce the recast time of all Magician healing spells to 15.0 seconds (nullifies the problem with option1)
3) Place Transon's Elemental Infusion (52) on a different timer from other heals, with a 15.0 seconds recast.
4) Increase the hitpoints healed by Magician spells across their healing line to be closer to the Beastlord ones.

Thanks for listening, please post your comments maturely & stick on topic as much as possible =)
 
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Thanks Malleus, but it's not easy from looking at them to give a definitive answer to which class finds it easier to obtain a Healing Increment item (& keep it above other upgrades).

So I guess I kinda nullified "Case 3" unless someone posts that they believe either class has better chances with Healing Increment. (but I don't think it's hugely important to the overall arguement)
 
Not chiming in on this yet, but for comparison sakes Necro heals!


Necromancer spell
Name: Spirit of Kaezul (65 relic)
Target: Pet
Function: Increase Hitpoints by 360 a tick for 5 ticks (1800 over 30 seconds)
Cast time: 5.0 seconds
Recast time: 0.0 seconds* (DoT heal so no immediate affect)

Heal portion not affected by any focus effect. Does still hurt the mob, so DPS not greatly affected.


This can be stacked with...

Necromancer spell
Name: Wraithbond (61)
 Target: Any
Function: Increase Hitpoints by 195 a tick for 4 ticks (780 over 24 seconds)
Cast time: 2.0 seconds
Recast time: 0.0 seconds* (DoT heal so no immediate affect)

Heal portion not affected by any focus effect. Drains life from the caster.


And you could include this as an instant heal, but its stretching it.

Necromancer spell
Name: Corpal Empathy (44)
 Target: Any
Function: Increase Hitpoints by 201 - 315 (Instant heal)
Cast time: 2.0 seconds
Recast time: 0.0 seconds

Drains life from the caster. Don't know if focus effects touch it.



Also the highest end necro pets do a group life tap, that heals everyone including themselves about 75hp. Mend pet exists as well.


So I don't honestly think Necromancers should play a factor at all in your statements. The heals are two different for any good comparisons.
 
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Now that I've gathered them together, here are my thoughts.

Magicians already have the easiest time keeping their pet alive, why do they need more heals?

A Magician has many tools at their disposal that the beast lord just doesn't. The biggie being they get a relic pet, and the beast lord doesn't. The relic pet is a beast of a thing, and alot easier to heal and keep alive than a bst pet.

So for a more fair comparison I'm going to assume you are talking about both classes level 63 pet. Let me know if this isn't accurate.

Magicians get there pet a 'shared mind' alot of their AA's, giving it better chance to avoid melee hits.

Magicians pets also have better resists than other pets, and an AA (Barrier Ward) that makes them all but immune to spells for a nice duration (5 minutes, about the length of most any single fight before tier 8). If they are still taking too much damage and its fire and cold based magic, the magician can blow Elemental Barrier as well (+200 FR/CR at max level).

The Magician can use there monster summons to aux for said pet, lowering its melee damage further.

If we are talking about the 63 pets, the magician can slow the mob with its water pet, by 25%. Which while only half as much as a BST's potential is nothing to sneeze at pre-relic pet.

There is also no reason the mage pet isn't going to be duel wielding rune procing weapons. These runes really add up.


So I'd argue that if all these tools are being used, that in most cases the Magician should be better off than a bst lord, assuming they are both giving it their all. I don't think there are many situations where being able to chain heal, would be a huge improvement over using these tools and DPSing. I'd give advantage to Magician.
 
I'm talking mainly about their ability in soloing, during raids in general a grouphealer & a heal every 20 seconds or so will keep a pet alive -
if it doesn't then you may as well not waste your mana spam-healing as your dps outweighs the pet's.

Edit: I'm talking about any of the pets, relic or otherwise.
Just because a pet has 10k hp buffed, doesn't mean that you don't have to wait for minutes after the fight for your heals to repop enough to heal it back up (even if you're healing it consistently during the fights.) The 2x longer (& more) that it takes the Mage to heal it's pet stacks up.
 
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Beastlords are also hybrids of a healer class and should get better heals. You also left out they get the healing % and heal crit % AAs.


I will agree though, 20 second cooldown on the pet heal is super long and i'd love to see it lowered to 10-15. Even if they had the same CD, beastlords get a higher base heal amount, heal AAs and if needed can use chloroplast.
edit: Heal AAs also effect mend, so even BST mend will eventually be better.
 
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Thanks for the that good insight Zefar.

I'm posting now a sort of hps (healing per second)! If you look at the classes purely as healing...whether this helps or not I don't know, but it shows the huge gap.

For the sake of ease: Til's Elemental Composition = Til, Sha's Mending = Sha, Vigor of Zehkes = Zehkes, Chloroblast = Chloro.

1) Mage casts Til [+3sec], Heals pet for 1215hp, Allow gems to refresh [+2.5sec Fizzle Time], Allow recast time on spell (20seconds minus fizzle time), [+17.5sec]

= a grand total of 1215 hp in 23 seconds.

2) Beastlord casts Sha [+3sec], Heals pet for 1475, Allow gems to refresh [+2.5sec Fizzle Time], Cast Zekhes [+3sec], Heals pet for 910hp, Allow gems to refresh, [+2.5sec Fizzle Time], Pause to allow Sha to repop [+2sec], Cast Sha [+3sec], Heals pet for 1475, Allow gems to refresh [+2.5sec Fizzle Time], Cast Chloro [+1.5sec], Heals Pet for 428, Allow gems to refresh [+2.5sec fizzle time], Pause for Sha to refresh [+3.5sec]

= a grand total of 4288 hp in 26 seconds.

The pause at the end of (2) is to allow both sets of healing to be looped in a similar time-frame. However you could cast Zehkes after Chloro at the end for a better Healing ratio, but it would make a much longer loop.

Please point out any inaccuracies or if this entire thing is meaningless. But I think it shows the huge disparity in healing abilities IF you're required just to heal your pet.
 
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I've played both classes and in my experience I would say I have found the beastlord pet easier to keep alive than the magician pet.

I don't think the magician has a substantial lead in "tools" that help their pets live, beastlords don't summon pet weapons but they can slow and cripple mobs, have their own pet buffs for HP, stats, and resists.

I think there are two main factors that make healing a beastlord pet easier, one of which is already covered pretty well in the OP, the spells available. I think it is worth explicitly mentioning that the beastlord has a non-pet heal that they can cast while the pet heal is on cooldown.

The other substantial advantage beastlords have over magicians as healers comes from AAs. Beastlords have all of the healing increment and healing crit AAs that all priests have, while Magicians get other stuff. A beastlord can crit a heal for substanially more than a magician can, they can do it more often, and in the meantime they can cast another heal too.

edit: I see that Konya said basically what I said in point one but he used math so his post is probably better.
Konya: AAed magicians don't fizzle spells, otherwise seems good to me

I neglected to mention that I think Beastlords SHOULD be better healers, but I think Magicians could still use a boost in the area of pet healing.
 
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robopirateninja said:
Konya: AAed magicians don't fizzle spells, otherwise seems good to me

I neglected to mention that I think Beastlords SHOULD be better healers, but I think Magicians could still use a boost in the area of pet healing.
Click to expand...

Thanks Tyrone. I used "Fizzle Time" (as it appears on the parser), because I believed that to be the length of time between landing a spell & your spell gems refreshing, allowing you to cast another spell. If this isn't the 2.5 seconds that I think it is, it doesn't matter hugely because the ratio of Beastlord:Magician would still be the same since I kept the number constant.

In concordance with you as I've stated before, I expect Beastlords are meant to be the better healers, but the difference is so large at the moment that I think something needs to be addressed. I see very little advantage for being a Mage trying to keep his pet alive except during raid nameds where Spell AEs are a particular problem. The rune from pet weapons is only 50dmg & it's not as though it procs all the time.
 
Magician pet heals were nerfed when Magician pets were still broken, long ago.

For some buggy reason, Magician pets were taking 50% normal damage. Wiz, seeing how well they were able to tank, reduced the strength of the pet heal spells. Later, it was discovered they were taking 50% of damage, and so that was fixed. Pet heals were left as they are.

As a mage, you're stuck pretty much with your heals and a bunch of clickies you can acquire through the tiers as far a healing goes, but this is the history of why your pet heals are inferior.
 
Manguadi said:
Magician pet heals were nerfed when Magician pets were still broken, long ago.

For some buggy reason, Magician pets were taking 50% normal damage. Wiz, seeing how well they were able to tank, reduced the strength of the pet heal spells. Later, it was discovered they were taking 50% of damage, and so that was fixed. Pet heals were left as they are.

As a mage, you're stuck pretty much with your heals and a bunch of clickies you can acquire through the tiers as far a healing goes, but this is the history of why your pet heals are inferior.
Click to expand...

True, but not complete. Even with the halved damage they were taking fixed, mage heals as they were, were able to keep a pet alive almost indefinitely, and were the only spells that were cast by mages, who could solo a lot more than was intended.

Im not sure why the claim is being made mages should be on par pet healers with beastlords. Can a beastlord rain for over 3k damage or nuke on par with mages? No. Thats one of the tradeoffs you get when picking class.
 
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Ikaa|LoveYums said:
Im not sure why the claim is being made mages should be on par pet healers with beastlords. Can a beastlord rain for over 3k damage or nuke on par with mages? No. Thats one of the tradeoffs you get when picking class.
Click to expand...

I don't think that is the request here, currently mages are closer to 25% of the healers beastlords are, by Konya's calculations, without factoring in crits and heal aas.
 
robopirateninja said:
I don't think that is the request here, currently mages are closer to 25% of the healers beastlords are, by Konya's calculations, without factoring in crits and heal aas.
Click to expand...

Technically its closer to 1/3 the healing power but the point remains. Mage healing may well need looking at, but frankly I'm not sure how many beastlords can/do realistically utilize 3 healing spells in most instances as often its just not realistic. One suggestion I would make would be to implement in a healing tome for mages in the expansion.
 
Mend pet is an instant cast so it's not really difficult to work in. The pet-only heal targets your pet when you click it so the only one that even requires effort to cast is chloroblast and while it is definitely a useful addition it's the weakest of the three heals.
 
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Vigor of Zehkes is my real problem with the healing amount calculated. From my personal experience its almost never used and most don't have room to keep it up, making it largely irrelevant in my opinion.
 
Ikaa|LoveYums said:
True, but not complete. Even with the halved damage they were taking fixed, mage heals as they were, were able to keep a pet alive almost indefinitely, and were the only spells that were cast by mages, who could solo a lot more than was intended.

Im not sure why the claim is being made mages should be on par pet healers with beastlords. Can a beastlord rain for over 3k damage or nuke on par with mages? No. Thats one of the tradeoffs you get when picking class.
Click to expand...

If anything it's because mages are traditionally a powerful soloing class, but with gear and levels they fall significantly behind most other classes in that area.

Pet heals aren't going to add much to their raid strength, but it would help them regain some of their soloing prowess.
 
This is exactly the point. I'm not asking them to be made the same, I'm asking for an increase in Mage healing - by reducing the recast of Til's to 15seconds it's only a very small improvement, but one in the right direction.

@Enlytin: Like I said earlier, I'm mainly talking about the role in soloing, where I believe there COULD be a benefit in certain situations to mem an extra pet-heal. Whereas in a raid you're required to mem other utilities/dps, or you keep frequently memmed spells (such as Slow or SB) up for when needed.

However, even without this 2nd Pet-only-heal Beastlords are far far superior healers: better heal, less recast, 0-recast quick-heal, healing AAs (+hp & crits).

Also, thanks for all the comments - would love to see more input from Mages (or mage-botters) through the tiers. I agree with Manguadi that Mages are getting left behind as a solo class (perhaps this is the intension of SoD vs that-other-game).

Late Edit (sorry): Another reason that Zehkes isn't irrelevant, is that I'm basically seeing that a lvl 49 Beastlord pet-heal is as good as the Magician lvl 64 pet-heal.

Vigor of Zehkes (49) = 910hp / 18seconds (3second cast-time + 15seconds recast) = 50.55555 (healing points per second or something)
Til's Elemental Recomposition (64) = 1215hp / 23 seconds (3second cast-time + 20seconds recast) = 52.82

With my suggestion to decrease the recast time of Til's to 15seconds we get:
Til's Elemental Recomposition (64) = 1215hp / 18 seconds (3second cast-time + 15seconds recast) = 67.5

When compared with Sha:
Sha's Mending (64) = 1475hp / 13 (3second cast-time + 10second recast) = 133.46


So even the new suggestion is not unbalancing at all, & is still a long mile away from the Beastlord heal (totally excluding AAs & other healing).
 
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As the person who originally nerfed magician heals, I'd like to chime in and say that they can probably be strengthened to some degree - by raising the # or lowering the recast. They shouldn't be as good as beastlord ones, but not as weak as they are now.
 
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