Magician Changes Made?
- Thread starter Hesyous
- Start date
I think they covered it. I think at that range I used air pet mainly his stun lets him build up more agro, so you can rain harder. The water pet can toss in a slow, but when the mobs you're fighting only have like 10 k hp, it's better just to kill them faster than to worry about them slowing. The fire illusion adds 10 pts of ds each level. So if you had a relic pet in fire form 3, he would have an 81 pt ds.
The shield is a pet item, it drops from the goblins in Tears of Elael. I would no recommend going and trying to farm any alone. But, if you do the unstable and goblin scouts you should be able to handle. None of the others. Most of the goblins do summon.
IIRC, frenzied burn out is only 34 minutes recast time. It is still a long time. When I'm soloing, I use it for the heal component mainly. I also use the 700 pt heal clicky.
Your pet will not benefit from tomes like tome of healing 1, nor will he benefit from the worn effect on the 500 k charm. CoPs will up his healing and so will healing inc.
The shield is a pet item, it drops from the goblins in Tears of Elael. I would no recommend going and trying to farm any alone. But, if you do the unstable and goblin scouts you should be able to handle. None of the others. Most of the goblins do summon.
IIRC, frenzied burn out is only 34 minutes recast time. It is still a long time. When I'm soloing, I use it for the heal component mainly. I also use the 700 pt heal clicky.
Your pet will not benefit from tomes like tome of healing 1, nor will he benefit from the worn effect on the 500 k charm. CoPs will up his healing and so will healing inc.
Hesyous
Dalayan Elder
Wow, good info! So....questions: Companion Armor 1. I have that tome. Seems pretty decent. Do you have it and do you think it's worth it?
Second: The other thread I started about Mage AA's being worth it. The Elemental Mastery AA...I understand that the AAs I can chose also affect my pet, but does that also rely on my skill? Example: My offense is 210 and my 2handed blunt is 53. Do I need to max those so my pet benefits? Am I looking TOO much in to this?
Second: The other thread I started about Mage AA's being worth it. The Elemental Mastery AA...I understand that the AAs I can chose also affect my pet, but does that also rely on my skill? Example: My offense is 210 and my 2handed blunt is 53. Do I need to max those so my pet benefits? Am I looking TOO much in to this?
The wiki page says from from your AAs that allow you to hit or dodge hits. So, I don't think skill has an effect. Though, an increase in your defense will up your AC. Since you have the pet companion armor 1 tome done, your pet gets 1/4 of the ac you have. I have the tome, at this point I just kill easy mobs when I solo. Which has not been for a long time.
Also, they reworked how pet items weapons work. The higher the ratio, the more dmg is added to your pets max hit. So since you summon blade of powers at a 0.76 ratio, any pet wep you give him with less than that ratio should have a neat stat or proc. My favorite pet wep combo is a Renu's Harrasser and a war worn shield.
Also, they reworked how pet items weapons work. The higher the ratio, the more dmg is added to your pets max hit. So since you summon blade of powers at a 0.76 ratio, any pet wep you give him with less than that ratio should have a neat stat or proc. My favorite pet wep combo is a Renu's Harrasser and a war worn shield.
Hesyous
Dalayan Elder
Actually I don't have that tome done. 
I have it in the bank. I bought it a while back for cheap. Anyway, thanks! I just wanted confirmation of what I thought how it works and you have come to the same conclusion as I. If you have any other helpful hints let me know. Last night I picked up Frenzied Burnout. I used it a couple times and....it's not bad. I KNOW it's not a 1 hour and 12 minute cooldown like the wiki says. Overall I am happy with it. Because I used it in a raid on raid mobs I didn't notice a DPS difference, but I did notice the HoT. That was cool.
I have it in the bank. I bought it a while back for cheap. Anyway, thanks! I just wanted confirmation of what I thought how it works and you have come to the same conclusion as I. If you have any other helpful hints let me know. Last night I picked up Frenzied Burnout. I used it a couple times and....it's not bad. I KNOW it's not a 1 hour and 12 minute cooldown like the wiki says. Overall I am happy with it. Because I used it in a raid on raid mobs I didn't notice a DPS difference, but I did notice the HoT. That was cool.A general suggestion based on a comment in your last post:
If you want to appreciate and understand your dps in all settings, you should have logging turned on and be parsing. While some people don't do it, or think that dps differences are useless unless you can observe them without a parse, I use it a lot.
I use it to see minor dps progression based on gear or tomes, impact of rotating my spells differently, adding in clickies at different points, and (most importantly) to understand what dps I should be doing based on how long of a fight it is going to be. Example: short fight like Warped Slave, sure go all out and burn your mana. It should die before you run out. On longer fights, you will want to scale back to maintain a lower level of dps for the duration of the fight.
Parsing also lets me see how my dps ranks compared to other classes and see if I'm keeping up with better necros.
Then again I'm a necro. Maybe mages don't think about these things.
If you want to appreciate and understand your dps in all settings, you should have logging turned on and be parsing. While some people don't do it, or think that dps differences are useless unless you can observe them without a parse, I use it a lot.
I use it to see minor dps progression based on gear or tomes, impact of rotating my spells differently, adding in clickies at different points, and (most importantly) to understand what dps I should be doing based on how long of a fight it is going to be. Example: short fight like Warped Slave, sure go all out and burn your mana. It should die before you run out. On longer fights, you will want to scale back to maintain a lower level of dps for the duration of the fight.
Parsing also lets me see how my dps ranks compared to other classes and see if I'm keeping up with better necros.
Then again I'm a necro. Maybe mages don't think about these things.
Hesyous
Dalayan Elder
Enasc: You are correct. And this Mage does think about those things. I'd like to know if I am doing well or not, escpecially when comparing to my own class. Last night I joined a PUG. This is the first time I've been in a PUG where we didn't do well at all. I was burning ALL my mana on trash and bosses, when normally I am in groups/pugs or whatever and I don't have the time to burn through all my mana. So....basically DPS was hurting big time. I still want to know how I did and the only way is through logs.
Hesyous
Dalayan Elder
Also, I do a simplistic way of DPS monitoring sometimes. That is 'stop watch'. I am talking about the same type of mob though. So, I try this or that to see what the delta is. Simple Example: Stop watch a Fire Pet vs Mob A and only heal my pet. So, I am really testing the DPS of my pet. Then do the same with an Air Pet (all the same buffs on the pet and I) with the same mob.
I know that if the mob is 1 lvl higher then it does a slight bit more dmg and has more HP. That's given. But the simple stop watch technique works pretty good.
Obviously you have to do this over and over to get accurate metrics.
Correction: This doesn't give you DPS, this gives you a decent understanding of how much time goes by while your pet takes down something on its' own. And, while in Illusion Water 3, whether it is enough to sustain decent heals to keep the pet alive without intervention.
I know that if the mob is 1 lvl higher then it does a slight bit more dmg and has more HP. That's given. But the simple stop watch technique works pretty good.
Obviously you have to do this over and over to get accurate metrics.
Correction: This doesn't give you DPS, this gives you a decent understanding of how much time goes by while your pet takes down something on its' own. And, while in Illusion Water 3, whether it is enough to sustain decent heals to keep the pet alive without intervention.
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vistachiri
Dalayan Master
Not quite. It was actually made crappy around the time I turned 65. The rationale was if I remember correctly that mages were soloing things they shouldn't be able to solo, and they were not supposed to be able to do so. Most of the older mages, including myself, argued against it for what seems like years. Eventually almost all of us just used healer alts and 2boxed. At some point the recast timer went down a little.
Hesyous
Dalayan Elder
So, I'll say it and it might come out like I am bitching...
I don't know why the recast time on healing spells for Mage pets is so high. I think it's crap. There is NO reason for it. It still eats away at your mana pool and it's not like you have unlimited mana. I can solo with it being 20 seconds and I could if it were lower, but it being lower would make more since. It would be nice to see a reply to this (my) post explaining the rational thought process behind 'cool down' for the mage pet heal spell, OR if there is something posted else where in which would shed some light, please point it out to me.
Edit: Also, the cast time on it is around 5 seconds in general. Even if you chained casted, your pet isn't going to out dps YOU and YOUR PET. The only situation I can think of is keeping yourself alive a little longer before your pet dies and you die after in most situations.
Also, mages soloing mobs they shouldn't? really?!?!? That sounds like a very bias rationale.
vistachiri
Dalayan Master
Preaching to the choir man, preaching to the choir.
Ah! here is the relevant thread from around when this happened. 2006ish.
https://shardsofdalaya.com/forum/threads/changes-to-mage-heal.6030/
Looks like I wasn't quite 65 at that point, not sure what I would have been around. Memory of eight years ago is awful fuzzy.
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darksabbath
Dalayan Master
At the risk of getting Beastlords nerfed, recast timer on bst heal is only 10 seconds. Still feels like forever when you need your pet to tank and its health is dropping like a rock. But, since mage/bst are often mentioned in direct comparison, I suggest mage heal recast should match it.
donfolstar3
Dalayan Master
Mhhh, sounds to me like it is time to nerf Beastlord pet heals.
darksabbath
Dalayan Master
I think it is past the time of asking to nerf all the classes, and instead seek buffs to some. Let's build to a level, instead of tearing everyone down. Or soon all of us will be wearing fig leafs and using twigs...
Hesyous
Dalayan Elder
So I read that article and what I got is....in 2006 the devs thought Mages were OP. So they nerfed them. So again, a biased point of view. Now...I am NOT saying that's bad and I am not saying that's good. I do however agree with the above statement saying that the least they can do is lower the pet heal to what the BeastLords is, 10 seconds. That would be at least fair. Btw, if they want to do that, don't change ANYTHING ELSE regarding the actual spells themselves. Just the cast time.
donfolstar3
Dalayan Master
You must be new around here.
Ok, ok. I am done being shitty now.
Comparing Til's Elemental Recomposition and Sha's Mending they do seem "imbalanced" if that is what people are looking for, though the obvious counter argument is that BSTs are healer hybrids to which someone might retort that Mage's are a pet class and should have pet heals comparable to other pet classes yet even lousy necros get more pet healing power and then some other classes chime in with.... you get the idea.
Til's Elemental Recomposition(64)
cost:285
cast:3
recharge:20
healed:1285
Sha's Mending(64)
cost:310
cast:3
recharge:10
healed:1475 (BSTs get healing AAs to boost this too)
Looking at the pertinent spell attributes I would say the amount healed is probably fair given that whole hybrid healer thing. Otherwise the meager mana difference does not seem to justify the difference in recast.
This is just me making up lore on the spot, but it does "makes sense" that mending a flesh and blood pet would take less mana than partially recompositioning a magical being... so maybe drop the Til's recast (for balance and to address the concerns in this thread) down to 10 but increase the cost up to 400-500 mana? That would roughly double the cost over Mage's penultimate pet heal Transon's Elemental Renewal(60) in exchange for half the recast. Changing the spell in this way would give Mages more of a dis-or-dat choice for their high end heals, having to choose depending on available mana weighed against healing needs.
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Hesyous
Dalayan Elder
Actually not bad at all, but I disagree about the 'flesh and blood' thing. Drop that mentality and go with 'healing' in general. Sure, I don't mind dropping it to 10 seconds, but the increase should be the same as the BST Lord regarding mana. So, doubling mana cost for mages, why? Because of the flesh and blood thing, I think not. Because BeastLords are more of a hybrid healer, again, I think not. It just doesn't make since to punish Mages for this particular difference in spells. Also, think of this....I am being slightly bias now. Mages are squishy. When our pet dies, we die unless we gate, run or what ever. Beastlords can melee and take hits (melee) unlike the caster class. Keep that in mind...
Necromancers have in-combat only lifetapping abilities, possibly to compensate for our pets being significantly weaker than mage and beastlord pets. As far as pure pet heals go, necromancers have 2. One at level 8 and one at level 28. I would guess mages have several more than that, and the spell parser seems to confirm it. Can we not turn this into Mage vs. Necro vs. Beastlord? Could we justify mage pet heals on their own ground, not saying "hey, they get something, so I want it too"
If this is really about reducing downtime because pet heal recast is too long, maybe an out of combat only boost to hp regen would do the job.
I imagine that any pet healing boost will come with a matching decrease in pet strength, and in my opinion, it should. Just saying that I'd be careful what I wished for.
darksabbath
Dalayan Master
Checking that join date, a whole 5 days newer around here than you.. so if I am, you are also. I was trying head off the "nerf it all" before it got started, not sure why that is wrong. Most often people cry nerf!, instead of seeking the minor buff to reach a plateau above instead. Nerfing another class does nothing to improve your class, just drags down another instead. There is no addition by subtraction here, subtraction is just subtraction. So, instead of being shitty, maybe try to work for improvements instead? As it is, a Mage will be taken over a Bst 90% of the time for an xp group, why make the bst's lot in life even worse?
Silly me, trying to suggest something beneficial. These forums need an "unlike" or vote down for posts, like old forum had....