Low Tier Raid mobs

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Enlityn3

Dalayan Beginner
It's become commonplace now to see high tier guilds farming very low tier raid targets, and it's getting to be extremely detrimental to those that actually need these mobs to progress. The nameds and mini's in Stormkeep, Yinny and other top end DFS mobs, and other targets I've personally seen go down to farmers a number of times in the recent past. It seems to me that these mobs should be for low end progression (which is why the loot is no drop obviously), as opposed to charm farming.

"Dude, you need to be faster to get there so you can get a kill :psyduck:."
It has nothing to do with speed of setup or even checking targets more often. A raid of 14+ people to kill takes quite a bit longer than a boxer or 2 getting together and hauling through a zone. I simply see no reason why these nameds should be relegated to farmed whores when their intent is clearly something else. Anti-farming code went in within the last 6 months to deter farmers from whoring zones that are clearly beneath them for profit, and I see this along the same line.

My suggestion? Implement code essentially disallowing anyone to engage a raid mob (defined something like a 65+ named who has no PH and drops all/mostly no drop gear) with under 10 people or something similar. This would rule out the 2-4 man factor, and actually require some effort to put together people to do this. I'm sure it wouldn't eliminate all raid mob farming, but it would cut down on it.

Thoughts?
 
Don't think this would make you as happy as you think it would. I think this would either cause a lot of overkill farming or a lot more wiping than you think. Like your first suggestion states you have to be quicker if you want the mob you should learn to share. Just because someone has more hp than you doesn't mean they don't have the same rights to a mob.
 
Believe it or not, those high tier people have alts that don't get to raid in the top zones like their mains, so they get them gear and ancients/relics where they can.
 
Well overkill farming isn't really any worse than regular farming, it just requires more work to put together. I mean, it's already getting farmed. I don't know why it would cause more wiping :what:.

I'm not sure how to respond to your last statement. It has nothing to do with who has the right to kill what. The mob is intended to serve a purpose in the game, and its purpose isn't being served because it's being killed by higher tier folks who don't need what it drops. If a mob is there to let people break into the raiding game, shouldn't that be what it's doing? Furthermore, shouldn't steps be taken to ensure that that mob is allowed to do its job?

Anyways, I'm not saying this is the solution necessarily. It's just a thought, and I can kinda see where you're coming from. This post is more to address the problem and potentially brainstorm a solution.
 
ElPapaPollo said:
Believe it or not, those high tier people have alts that don't get to raid in the top zones like their mains, so they get them gear and ancients/relics where they can.
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Not that I disagree with you on your point, but how is farming for an alt more justified than farming for a main?

I don't feel strongly one way or the other on this. I'm waiting to hear more opinions.
 
ElPapaPollo said:
Believe it or not, those high tier people have alts that don't get to raid in the top zones like their mains, so they get them gear and ancients/relics where they can.
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More often than not I see occurring with everyone there geared tier 6-7 and above. What could they possibly need from an ancient dropping mob?
 
Enlityn3 said:
More often than not I see occurring with everyone there geared tier 6-7 and above. What could they possibly need from an ancient dropping mob?
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Ancients for their alts? :psyduck:

Steel has been doing farming in the planes, SK/SE, OP, and IP, specifically for our alts. We're not killing this stuff for the sick pleasure of screwing lower tier guilds.
 
....If there are no alts there that need ancients, what are you killing ancient dropping mobs for? Like I just stated, more often than not I see 4-5 people, all geared far beyond anything you can pickup in SK/DFS (including ancients). On the very rare occurrence that one of them needs an ancient, that still doesn't explain why stuff like AM/Flux are being killed who drop nothing of value for those characters?

Anyways, this is a more open ended concern. Killing to pickup ancients for your alts is one thing. Clearing a low end raid zone because you want to farm charm money (which I have firsthand knowledge of this being the case on a large number of occurrences) is ridiculous.
 
I don't know if AM drops ancients, so I'm not sure about farming him for whatever reason, but hate to say it about Fluxator, he has a couple nice droppables, so he will be farmed.
 
I don't think anyone is wasting their own time to kill stuff maliciously. People kill mobs when they need loot from it, not to harass lower tiered guilds. I don't see why an alt would be different than a main in terms of wanting to gear them up. Just because you play one toon more than another doesn't mean you should never get to do "old" content with an alt. People get bored with doing the same zones over and over again, and they also get bored with their mains. I see no harm in people gearing up their alts in lower tiered zones to redo the content just to have fun and get gear.

If people are doing it with the intent to screw other guilds out of content, then this should be brought up, but I honestly cannot think of any guilds doing that at the moment.
 
I don't know about storm's eye because I'm ally to giants, but places like DHK and DFS are great places to get XP for higher geared toons because there are few zones left where they can still get an experience bonus. Sometimes killing a named is a necessary evil to get to the next area/level of the zone. :( And as it was already pointed out, higher geared toons will go to these zones to gear up their alts which they have every right to do as well. Somtimes it sucks (I know because when i first started playing I'd be discouraged by the same types of situations, only at the time the gear WAS being farmed as it was still droppable), but what we did was just make an attempt to beat the farmers to it. Some people find competition fun. Clearly making the items no drop (which at the time we argued would be a great fix) didn't solve the problem, and unfortunately I'm not sure what is being suggested now will either.
 
ElPapaPollo said:
I don't know if AM drops ancients, so I'm not sure about farming him for whatever reason, but hate to say it about Fluxator, he has a couple nice droppables, so he will be farmed.
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So your position has gone from 'We should be allowed to gear/ancient/relic our alts' to 'We should be able to farm raid zones with nice droppables to make cash'? That goes back to my initial point. If you think those mobs are there for your farming purposes, that's your own ordeal. I have a feeling they were intended for other things.

Felyn, I don't think anyone has said their intent is malicious in nature. Like I said earlier (and have found myself repeating often), most of the time I watch these nameds drop there are no 'alts' there.
 
I disagree with changing the current setup. The way things are set up farming for a charm or your alts is part of the game.

On the other hand new guilds are going to have a bit more choice open to them in the near future regarding raid targets. Should help out considerably.
 
Waldoff said:
On the other hand new guilds are going to have a bit more choice open to them in the near future regarding raid targets. Should help out considerably.
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Very cool.
 
I was emphasizing the fact that nameds aren't farmed solely for money. But if you want it straight, then yes, I've farmed both for money and my alt. If it's a mob that drops no drop loot or ancient/relics, then the majority of the time I insure there is some alt to keep something from rotting.
 
JayelleNephilim said:
Clearly making the items no drop (which at the time we argued would be a great fix) didn't solve the problem, and unfortunately I'm not sure what is being suggested now will either.
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You might be right.

Whether or not my solution is viable, would the staff be open to trying to change this element of the game (not necessarily directed at you Jayelle, I know you're not speaking for the staff here)? If they see it as a part of the game there's really no reason for me to argue. I just think that tier 0-2 mobs should be for starting guilds to get a foothold.
 
JayelleNephilim said:
Clearly making the items no drop (which at the time we argued would be a great fix) didn't solve the problem, and unfortunately I'm not sure what is being suggested now will either.
Click to expand...

Making items no drop DID solve the problem of people farming them to sell the items for cash. Now the items are being farmed to gear characters, exactly as they are supposed to be. The only problem is that the low raid tiers are congested. If the Devs feel that not enough people have a chance at getting low tier raid equipment then the solution, imo, is to change the respawn timer. Unfortunately, changing the timer affects more than just the mobs where congestion occurs, and since the timer was increased not too long ago, I think that there was concern about single guilds being able to farm whole tiers of content in short order, as happened in the past.

Also to others: Zones like DHK, SE and SK do need to be farmed by higher tiered guilds at some point to get faction and pieces for combine armor and the Penerlia/Rymaz head augment, so unless another option is put into place, there will be some farming of those zones where the majority of the actual item drops will rot. The bosses in those zones always drop the large heads/large scales, and killing them is a much better faction bump than just the trash, so when people need to do faction farming they will be hitting the names too.

I don't know how feasible coding to make a mob engageable only with a certain number of people is, but I don't think that is a good idea.

First, depending on what the consequences of engaging under the limit of characters is, if a tier appropriate raid starts to wipe, they could be fucked by not having enough people in the zone to meet the requirement.
Second, because there are legitimate reasons to be killing mobs that are under the best your full guild could possibly kill, this could hamper people for no reason.
Third, as mentioned in the OP,
It has nothing to do with speed of setup or even checking targets more often. A raid of 14+ people to kill takes quite a bit longer than a boxer or 2 getting together and hauling through a zone.
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You contradict yourself in these two sentences, and also they don't make that much sense anyways. It has nothing to do with speed, but a boxer or two are so much faster than your raid? A guild can claim a raid zone by having 12 people in zone and clearing, there should never be a problem with single groups running past you, if they are, report them immediately.

Entilyn: the mobs are there, allowing you to break into the raid game, nothing is subverting their intended purpose. The gear isn't even rotting, it's just going to someone else's character, not yours. This isn't any different than if Fusion wanted to do a wing of Thaz or something, and Steel kept clearing it and letting the gear rot, hoping for some rare piece or a quest drop or even just looting the plat and rolling out or something. The purpose of every mob is to drop its loot table when killed, not to give loot to specific people.
 
I think the speed comment should read, "It is not that we as a guild are too slow, but rather the two-boxers are too fast."

Not saying I agree one way or the other, just trying to clarify. If I am totally wrong with my assumption, please let me know.
 
Basically yes, it meant that it doesn't matter how fast raids form, they're not going to beat out 2 boxers to a mob.
 
Enlityn3 said:
What was meant by the statement was that the speed you can get a raid together is irrelevant, considering you're never going to beat two boxers who only need 3-4 characters. This is Steel killing white nameds in Stormkeep, not Steel dropping a wing of Thaz. If they really need the stuff in there, why would it hurt them to have to bring a minimum person raid? If this is the way you guys want it, whatever, its your game, everybody here has been around longer than I have, but that is ridiculous.
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A couple reasons.

1)Not everyone has an alt they want to get some gear. There's only a couple of us with alts we really want to play alot.
2)It's at odd times usually when we aren't raiding. It's done by 3 or 4 people because that's all that are on, or that want to do it.
3)Factions. Not everyone in Steel is on the same faction. Most of us are on the same faction, but some of us are on different factions.
 
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