GIANT VS DRAGON FACTION

[kurdt]

ya you can do both factions , but i still think that doing one factionbinding the stuff doing the quests and getting the ornate armor is better , just choose what faction is best over all for your guild and run with it

 

[Rorahen]

Faction binding is a mistake until you have farmed items from both zones.

'm not sure which guild is yours, but at this point in think you need to reconsider how much effort has been put into getting ally and how much gear your active raiders have is faction bound versus the possible benefits not just in the short run but in the long run you as a guild may have if you decide to start killing both.

I have always told my guys, "DO NOT PICK A FACTION!" Collect heads/scales for now, and once we have farmed adequate items from the zones we will choose a faction. At this point scales/heads will be dumped and no faction will be lost. The only thing we will have lost is the "a dollar today is worth more then a dollar tomorow," but in SoD the economy is so variant it does not really matter. Furthermore i would hope this money, as well as all money made from raids is going to you're guild bank.

yada yada yada that isn't the point. And for the record, everyone killing both sides, no thanks.

The point is, changes were made in SE to compare with DHK, and some of the new loot on new nameds doesn't make much sense.

And for the record, again, when's the last time a guild killed both sides and actually surived longer than 3 months? Or let's be nice and say 6 months. I'm having a hard time thinking of just one guild that has pulled it off. Basicallly my point is, loot loot loot me me me gets you no where. Yeah you get your loot fast. But where are you after a few months? Looking for a new guild probably. That's not to say no one could pull it off. But, that's the history of it.

 

[JayelleNephilim]

edit: oic thnx allie

 

[Allielyn]

Here I edited his OP to make it more concise.

There are two pairs of tank arms that drop in SE [one from the newly implemented SE mobs]. Both are pretty close in quality. There are a few other items that I can't recall now that are interchangable. I think it would very much so even out the factions more if one of these arms where replaced.

The key items i feel are lacking on the giant side are legs and gloves. Replacing a pair of these arms with legs or gloves comparable to those found in dhk would really help alot. Or even a neck comparable to talisman of the sentinel.

Don't get me wrong the tank and caster rings and the cloak these new names [in SE] drop really help alot but i think this change would really close the deal on evening out the factions.

 

[Brimztone]

And for the record, again, when's the last time a guild killed both sides and actually surived longer than 3 months? Or let's be nice and say 6 months. I'm having a hard time thinking of just one guild that has pulled it off. Basicallly my point is, loot loot loot me me me gets you no where. Yeah you get your loot fast. But where are you after a few months? Looking for a new guild probably. That's not to say no one could pull it off. But, that's the history of it.

Empire? Steel? Both killed each side and have lasted at least 3 months. Did Legacy kill both sides? Did Ruin way back when kill both sides? PR way back when?(Would be sweet if some older-school people could answer.)

There's also the BP from tasradur. Let's say that rymaz BP is the best one for tanks on the tier, you cannot deny that there are other viable options that are nearly as good. The whole point is that you don't need to farm both zones incessantly as there are always other options. You'll also be missing out on ornate gear for a long time if you don't pick a faction. While some might scoff at Ornate (and rightly so for some pieces), other pieces can be a very nice bonus upg. Add in faction binding and the quest aug from the leaders head turn-in and you really have some great upgrades for chosing one faction over the other.

At any rate, I stand by what I said earlier. Hardcore's will farm both. More casuals are better off with one.

I totally agree. There are some viable options. Its the whole, you can get along without it, but it is just really nice to have. There are a couple items like that. Like the GLib staff, the Zirvane mask, the Zirvane BP. The ornate is in the same boat IMO. The legs/bp clickies are nice to have, but they aren't 100% needed.

 

[vistachiri]

Empire? Steel? Both killed each side and have lasted at least 3 months. Did Legacy kill both sides? Did Ruin way back when kill both sides? PR way back when?(Would be sweet if some older-school people could answer.)
I totally agree. There are some viable options. Its the whole, you can get along without it, but it is just really nice to have. There are a couple items like that. Like the GLib staff, the Zirvane mask, the Zirvane BP. The ornate is in the same boat IMO. The legs/bp clickies are nice to have, but they aren't 100% needed.

yep and vanguard killed us, not burnout or anything to do with faction

 

[diolas]

Here I edited his OP to make it more concise.

How about making an elemental focus that drops in DHK. syduck:

 

[Eleonor]

Empire? Steel? Both killed each side and have lasted at least 3 months. Did Legacy kill both sides? Did Ruin way back when kill both sides? PR way back when?(Would be sweet if some older-school people could answer.)
I totally agree. There are some viable options. Its the whole, you can get along without it, but it is just really nice to have. There are a couple items like that. Like the GLib staff, the Zirvane mask, the Zirvane BP. The ornate is in the same boat IMO. The legs/bp clickies are nice to have, but they aren't 100% needed.

Man, Zaira would kill you if she hear you said bp/clicky rent 100% needed.

I think and imnot alone they re usefull specially if your guild plan to do Prison in soon future.
Clicky bp = Hp/Mana buff. stack with all... Tank needs hp.. Caster needs mana..
Legs bp = Resist ...one of most important thing for most encounter.

Once you get your combine armor it's just $$$

 

[seferon]

Man, Zaira would kill you if she hear you said bp/clicky rent 100% needed.

I think and imnot alone they re usefull specially if your guild plan to do Prison in soon future.
Clicky bp = Hp/Mana buff. stack with all... Tank needs hp.. Caster needs mana..
Legs bp = Resist ...one of most important thing for most encounter.

Once you get your combine armor it's just $$$

..............................................


you need click bp and legs for op ....... talk about a tier jump? there is plenty of time after your Done Farming SE AND DHK zones when your farming poa pow pot becuase this will take you a few months unless your a hardcore raiding guild. to gain faction back grind out for those that dont have enough scales befor you can even hope to attempt op syduck:

 

[HandsofChaos]

Well yea like back to the topic... they revamped SE to even the score and one of the new names drops a item already available in SE... any chance this item can be replaced? I'd really like to see legs but whatever you feel is good works for me. :haw:

 

[HandsofChaos]

Empire? Steel? Both killed each side and have lasted at least 3 months. Did Legacy kill both sides? Did Ruin way back when kill both sides? PR way back when?(Would be sweet if some older-school people could answer.)
I totally agree. There are some viable options. Its the whole, you can get along without it, but it is just really nice to have. There are a couple items like that. Like the GLib staff, the Zirvane mask, the Zirvane BP. The ornate is in the same boat IMO. The legs/bp clickies are nice to have, but they aren't 100% needed.

Yes ruin killed both sides back in the day... Or atleast I know there earlier tanks have gear from both sides. Like I said none of the highend guilds have picked giant faction and stuck with it. They started out on giant faction but switched to dragon. This includes ruin that has lasted like almost 3 years now or something like that. Steel is closing in on 1 1/2 years or something like that. And Empire has died to vanguard or whatever someone said. The Euro guilds I know nothing about and Forsaken(Lagacy) is actually a little before my day so I can't be sure.

 

[Brimztone]

And Empire has died to vanguard or whatever someone said.

Yup, we did.

And yeah, Steel is pretty old and is still around since it was resurrected this past October was it? I can't remember the day we switched over.

I knew Ruin killed Dragons at one point, just wasn't sure about Giants. I know Legacy killed Giants but I am not 100% sure they killed Dragons as well(They probably did).

 

[Rorahen]

I'm still not seeing a guild here that's pulled it off. A guild that did it and did not die off to come back to life at a later date. I want someone to name me one guild, that didn't go through five guild names, that started off fresh, killed both giants and dragons, and are still standing today, with the original members that pulled it all off. If you look at the history of it, far as I know, nobody has done it. Now, that's a weird thing when really, it shouldn't matter. Giants and dragons are no different really from anything else in the game to kill except they have faction stuffs and all. But, hiistory has shown, most recently the whole steel/Escutcheon/defiance/DG crusade, when people get together with the bright idea of murder everything, f giants and dragons f'm all! and go through with it, sooner than later that guild is history, drama prevails, people reform into a new guild, repeat again, and again, and again, and what do you know, you have all your uber loots but you're sitting your ass in snp or athica or where ever with no guild tag being bored and talking to x person in tell about forming a new guild to reclaim your glory days.

 

[Syalara]

I dont think those guilds died due to loot table discrepencies between Giants and Dragons. :what:

This thread is getting off topic. Who gives a rats ass if any guild killed both sides and is still here, it does not prove any kind of relevant point.

IMO, pick dragon faction if you want to be able to kill on your own schedule cause there wont be too much competition for the zones.
pick giant faction if you and your guild are ready to face other guilds going after the same content.
do both if you are a masochist

the differences in gear are pretty negligible in the long run.

If you want items to have an exact match on both sides of the faction fence, then the encounters will need to be on the same playing field as well, and SE/SK for the most part is easier then NDHK. Maybe an item tweak is in order between the factions here or there, but please make more specific points as to what loot you feel is off, and why.

 

[Brimztone]

steel/Escutcheon/defiance/DG crusade

:what: I don't think that Steel died and went to Scutch which changed it's name to Defiance in which 18 characters broke off to reform Steel and Defiance picked back up again an then reformed as Dandy Gentlemen had to do with killing both sides of Giants and Dragons. I know what when Steel was reformed we were raiding Prison and we were done with Giants/Dragons. I would think the reason why Dandy Reformed was for new leadership/new name/new start, but I could be wrong.

 

[Malleus2]

I'm still not seeing a guild here that's pulled it off. A guild that did it and did not die off to come back to life at a later date. I want someone to name me one guild, that didn't go through five guild names, that started off fresh, killed both giants and dragons, and are still standing today, with the original members that pulled it all off. If you look at the history of it, far as I know, nobody has done it.

Very few guilds have survived that long. Current membership of those guilds is likely less than 50% of the people that played over the time since faction binding etc was put in. In Ruin we have Volkov, Vargg, Mallas, Jinxat, Julon, Solefein (formerly Pharaun), Alton/Anne, Kelity, Kindar, Haisei and myself who date back to pre faction binding and I think another 10 or so active people that joined right around when all the changes took place. We have never "died off" although we have had lulls where we needed to recruit fresh blood to keep our raid force up and the guild was once disbanded simply to clear the 350+ Ruin flagged characters in the DB and reformed from only active members.

We have done it and survived but over half of the members did thier Ornate back when you could switch faction easily. We killed both indescriminantly prior to the faction change and faction binding. People could raid both and only take a short break from raiding one faction or the other to get ally and do a stormforge/draconic turn in. Once the changes went in we allied with giants as dragons were a much better target at the time. We still remain allied to giants so that newer members and alts (or those that delete combine gear ) have a path to go when obaining the faction armours for eventual combine upgrade.

In my opinion, if you plan to progress as a guild it is important to pick one or the other so you can get the ornate upgraded armour for click buffs and combine upgrades rather than killing both just for access to all drops. As mentioned before, the drops you get are just a step up on the ladder to the next tier. There are viable options on each side so target availablity becomes a greater factor than whether its loot tables are caster or melee friendly. It doesnt matter what they drop if the mobs are never available. Click buffs on Ornate are well worth it. Beyond that, if you check out members in Ruin, Steel and Exodus you will see a lot of Combine pieces in use as much of it has great stats or focus effects.

That said, pick one, gear up, move on. Switching factions is a time sink and a pain in the ass.

 

[hooden]

Claiming that because a guild kills both giants and dragons that they are doomed to fail, well, this is just incredibly wow. syduck:

Furthermore, you cannot even reasonably compare the older guilds (i.e. Legacy, Ruin, Phoenix) to the new way the system works. When these guilds were leveling up, there was no faction binding, there was no need to stay on any faction, and there was ease to change.

 

[diolas]

Claiming that because a guild kills both giants and dragons that they are doomed to fail, well, this is just incredibly wow. syduck:

Furthermore, you cannot even reasonably compare the older guilds (i.e. Legacy, Ruin, Phoenix) to the new way the system works. When these guilds were leveling up, there was no faction binding, there was no need to stay on any faction, and there was ease to change.

This is very true. A solid day/night of farming in either zone would put you all the way up to ally. It wasn't nearly as difficult to faction swap.

 

[Andorraa]

I'm still not seeing a guild here that's pulled it off. A guild that did it and did not die off to come back to life at a later date. I want someone to name me one guild, that didn't go through five guild names, that started off fresh, killed both giants and dragons, and are still standing today, with the original members that pulled it all off. If you look at the history of it, far as I know, nobody has done it. Now, that's a weird thing when really, it shouldn't matter. Giants and dragons are no different really from anything else in the game to kill except they have faction stuffs and all. But, hiistory has shown, most recently the whole steel/Escutcheon/defiance/DG crusade, when people get together with the bright idea of murder everything, f giants and dragons f'm all! and go through with it, sooner than later that guild is history, drama prevails, people reform into a new guild, repeat again, and again, and again, and what do you know, you have all your uber loots but you're sitting your ass in snp or athica or where ever with no guild tag being bored and talking to x person in tell about forming a new guild to reclaim your glory days.

Look at Empire. We made it to and into Sepulcher after killing Giants first and then Dragons. We just died to vanguard, but I still talk to all my old guildies that play VG. Had they not left SoD for VG we would still be a guild.

Your argument is null and void because you're basing your argument off your opinion.