Exquisite Crystalline Orb

[Thinkmeats]

"you get way too much mana from the 1-65 grind compared to the trifling 20 pts here/there that you get from raid upgrades, nerf base mana"

"yo we have explained to you a shitload of times that you are comparing apples and oranges"

"ITS SO EASY GOD YO UCAN EVEN GAIN LIKE 500 MAAN LEVEL ING IN MIELECH A!!!!"

 

[wolfwalkerEci]

Just a quick statement of fact: 2 tmap reward pieces and ive gained 10percent - 13percent tome. Im not sure on the exact ammount as I did some Silvercrown aug upgrades and vah quest which I got xp from.
As far as im concerned my time invested = the reward is balanced.

 

[lynnettell]

Sorry, it was late, and I was tired, was thinking of D maps...

And yes. Tier 1-2, you need more than a group of level 65's. I had a tank on E, Mod, D maps one night after I finally got my last quest piece (trust me, I lost count of how many I have done, but it's TONS) and went on a bank clearing spree that was level 65, had about 10 AA. And I could outtank him on the maps. I was chain healing the entire time, and usually I grab aggro just to have fun, they've become that boring to me.

Now, imagine if I wasn't geared like I am, and this was a full group of level 65 with 10 AA's. Tell ya what, I'll log on one & try to tank two non mezzable mobs on a D map, and have some 65 with no AA's try to heal my ass. It ain't happening.

This is a very long, very time consuming quest. Finding folks to do maps first off. Second off, the Vah is time consuming itself. Normally your groups are either friends or guildmates, who also need the drops. So... your chances are limited to two things. First off, does the damn piece drop. Second off, do you actually get it.

Unless it's YOUR map, and you're with folks that know that you are claiming the quest piece, then it's up to /ran. Then, you're probably like some of the map groups I've done that say they have multiple maps, and as soon as piece drops, "Got what I need, thanks guys!" and bye bye group. One of the key reasons I don't do maps that /ooc Map group, quest piece spoken for. Same with Vah. You take multiple folks to try to get one drop.

Anyway, still saying OP is looking at it from the wrong viewpoint. The only time I'll even do maps or Vah stuff is for friends/guildmates, because every other time, it's ended up the clusterfuck from hell.

 

[knowom]

Even under the absolute best possible conditions for all parts of the quest it's a big time investment. The reward is very justified for the effort involved for the average person doing the quest itself. Additionally it has no resists and is thus very replaceable at times for other gear.

A good portion is rather casual friendly big deal same could really be said about raid clearing at times. The Rust/FG map parts aren't over friendly. Additionally they are in pvp flagged areas. On that note to the OP if you feel so strongly against the item reward you can either put up or shut up.

Sorry guys your going to hate me for this!
*insert eerie pause*
few moments later....
D34DLY has been slain by D34DLY!
Oforf has been slain by D34DLY!
Sir Bob has been slain by D34DLY!
Fred the Dred has been slain by D34DLY!
Insertnamehere has been slain by D34DLY!

 

[Budizzle]

Hmm.

I've done this quest for 3 different toons. Unless the drop rates have been nerfed since I've been banned, this offhand is still overpowered.

It takes far more effort in man hours to obtain this than ANY piece of raid gear. Yes it's 1groupable, but that 1 group puts in a huge number of hours compared to going in and raiding for a few hours for any piece of raid gear.

I hope you're fucking kidding. Apparently you're not calculating the time it takes to progress an entire guild up to this item's tier. This shield is easily tier 7; the only thing I'd replace it with is 4.2 shield, UT shield, or Sanctum shit, and that's only after I had HI 7 in another slot (IP gloves being the first, which aren't easy to get in their own right).

People claiming you need more than one group to do this at any tier past level 65 are retarded. You can easily one group all the tmaps and presences required with full tier TS gear, and probably even lower tier tmap shit. You can do this quest from start to finish in less than 40 hours with a balanced 65 group.

 

[Renshu]

Hmm.

(IP gloves being the first, which aren't easy to get in their own right).

Charged Puresteel Band easier to obtain IMO.

 

[vistachiri]

Hmm.

I've done this quest for 3 different toons. Unless the drop rates have been nerfed since I've been banned, this offhand is still overpowered.



I hope you're fucking kidding. Apparently you're not calculating the time it takes to progress an entire guild up to this item's tier. This shield is easily tier 7; the only thing I'd replace it with is 4.2 shield, UT shield, or Sanctum shit, and that's only after I had HI 7 in another slot (IP gloves being the first, which aren't easy to get in their own right).

People claiming you need more than one group to do this at any tier past level 65 are retarded. You can easily one group all the tmaps and presences required with full tier TS gear, and probably even lower tier tmap shit. You can do this quest from start to finish in less than 40 hours with a balanced 65 group.

Counting in the hours it takes to progress from character creation to the tier items are gotten is fucking foolish. It completely discounts reality, where guilds gain/lose people constantly, and pickups are often held.

Thaz healing increment is absolute cake to get. Clockwork also has a pretty convenient bp.

I'd also love to see a fresh single group of 65's do a difficult tmap in the rust. I'd love to see that same group do the large amount of tmaps necessary, as well as acquiring all of those tmaps too. Which would in fact count towards the time, being as you're getting the quest pieces necessary to get that item.

You're also highly underestimating how long a presence can take to pop. I easily spent seven hours in lab waiting for one. Others have spent similar amounts of time in mielc and lasanth. That is only the first part. So in 40 hours. All the presences, travel time, every single piece for kelia's quest, and the 3 maps necessary to do for the quest, done with a single group in all tskill gear. Bullshit.

Under 40 hours my ass. As opposed to getting a lower air thaz pickup raid, being freshly 65, killing that wing in an hour (shouldn't take much longer, even with a pickup), and nabbing that ring because its rotting.

 

[Boehm]

New 65's aren't going to know this exists. They are doing it for the immaculate. But thanks for the info.

 

[Budizzle]

Counting in the hours it takes to progress from character creation to the tier items are gotten is fucking foolish. It completely discounts reality, where guilds gain/lose people constantly, and pickups are often held.

Thaz healing increment is absolute cake to get. Clockwork also has a pretty convenient bp.

I'd also love to see a fresh single group of 65's do a difficult tmap in the rust. I'd love to see that same group do the large amount of tmaps necessary, as well as acquiring all of those tmaps too. Which would in fact count towards the time, being as you're getting the quest pieces necessary to get that item.

You're also highly underestimating how long a presence can take to pop. I easily spent seven hours in lab waiting for one. Others have spent similar amounts of time in mielc and lasanth. That is only the first part. So in 40 hours. All the presences, travel time, every single piece for kelia's quest, and the 3 maps necessary to do for the quest, done with a single group in all tskill gear. Bullshit.

Under 40 hours my ass. As opposed to getting a lower air thaz pickup raid, being freshly 65, killing that wing in an hour (shouldn't take much longer, even with a pickup), and nabbing that ring because its rotting.

Because it's so fucking easy for a "fresh 65" to secure a slot in a random Thaz pickup while LT air is up AND the ring rots, right? It's infinitesimally easier for a lower 65 toon to build a group capable of doing difficult maps -- which don't rely on spawn timers and competition -- than it is for that same toon to squeeze into an LT raid. You're a dolt if you think an under geared 65 toon can weasel his/her way into an LT pickup and win the ring by roll or rot before he/she can do the tmap quest and Vah upgrade from start to finish.

Everyone is default dubious to Rust factions, iirc. In theory, a group of 65's is capable of doing that tmap the same way they can do a regular one. The only difficult Vah tmap exists in FG, and that's easily negated with pulls that don't suck. Yes, it will take quite a bit longer than a geared/AA'd group, but it can be done without.

The presence is Sorc Lab has a pretty high chance of spawning from the named spider in the tower, a battleworn sentinel. In fact, I've had three in a row rot before. The ones in Lasanth and MielC are easier to get by virtue of mobs available to pull.

It can be done in < 40 hours; I've done it.

Your post is irrelevant. The shield is still overpowered.

 

[Kirin Folken]

I seriously would like to see a casual style group thats just hit 65 try the FG map. The Lava damage alone would kill them after a few spawns. Let alone having a tank that can deal with a few Lava guardians.

Tell you what... without twinking you and your buddies level up some 65s, only useing the cash and gear you gather while leveling to 65 (no extra time spent farming cash or gear). And then go do enough tmaps to get your quest items (Starting at level 60 since you say thier so easy), then get Presences so you can then do these Vah Tmaps.

Get back to us on your results.

 

[Otcho]

I seriously would like to see a casual style group thats just hit 65 try the FG map. The Lava damage alone would kill them after a few spawns. Let alone having a tank that can deal with a few Lava guardians.

Tell you what... without twinking you and your buddies level up some 65s, only useing the cash and gear you gather while leveling to 65 (no extra time spent farming cash or gear). And then go do enough tmaps to get your quest items (Starting at level 60 since you say thier so easy), then get Presences so you can then do these Vah Tmaps.

Get back to us on your results.

Really? I did my rogues (tmaps)at around 60 aa with garbage tmap gear. I had the vah one done before 175 aas and my gear was still droppable shit and a mix of tmap things.
The fire damage is nowhere near as brutal as your making it out to be and it can be easily mitigated by having mage ds , sos , potions or a bard.

If you are finding tmaps difficult at just past 65 you should find a competent enchanter or something. Or maybe raid in another friend. Honestly your making tmaps sound hard when they are not.

 

[Budizzle]

Isn't the lava damage in FG a stock 10pt anyway...?

I seriously would like to see a casual style group thats just hit 65 try the FG map. The Lava damage alone would kill them after a few spawns. Let alone having a tank that can deal with a few Lava guardians.

Tell you what... without twinking you and your buddies level up some 65s, only useing the cash and gear you gather while leveling to 65 (no extra time spent farming cash or gear). And then go do enough tmaps to get your quest items (Starting at level 60 since you say thier so easy), then get Presences so you can then do these Vah Tmaps.

Get back to us on your results.

You're putting unrealistic sanctions on this scenario. I have completed the quest on three of my own toons and helped with many others, so I'm pretty qualified to make such claims. Aside from that, I don't play anymore...

 

[Kirin Folken]

Really? I did my rogues (tmaps)at around 60 aa with garbage tmap gear. I had the vah one done before 175 aas and my gear was still droppable shit and a mix of tmap things.
The fire damage is nowhere near as brutal as your making it out to be and it can be easily mitigated by having mage ds , sos , potions or a bard.

If you are finding tmaps difficult at just past 65 you should find a competent enchanter or something. Or maybe raid in another friend. Honestly your making tmaps sound hard when they are not.

How does 60 AA = Fresh 65??

So now.. a fresh 65 groups needs access to:

Mage
Druid
Potions (desposable cash)
Bard

In order to do the FG part??

My FR is pretty high on my toons I've done the FG part with, but I seem to recall even with my High FR it was hitting for 24s. Low FR which is very very possible thing with a fresh 65 group could be in the upper 50s. When your talking about Casters with 1k hps, and melee only in the 1500 range 50hp + a Tick is brutal to deal with.. Combine with Low FT, possibley No KEI/Clarity type effects.

I would have to double check the fire Damage to confirm what it hits for. If it really is only 10pts a tick, then its not to bad and Im just thinking of other areas (like Emberflow).

Buddy:

If you dont play anymore, then what do you care? what do you care if they had a 1st level quest that you turn in a rat tail and get a full set of thaz armor?


A lot of people end up with High Level Blinders. They forget how hard things were the first time around and it clouds thier judgement. The effect on the shield is totaly within reason considering the first had HI 6 (which also was in reason) and the amount of work involved. If anything about this shield "may" be out of reason prehaps the FT 3, as thiers not many items in the game, even high tier items that pack FT 3. But considering it gives up Mana for that big FT, its reasonable.

As a final note.... Do a formelo, your not going to find a lot of toons useing this shield. If its really that over powered and that easy to get, why dont you see it on every 65 healer?? (unlike say... Brimstone Buckler that everyone seems to have)

 

[robopirateninja]

How does 60 AA = Fresh 65??

So now.. a fresh 65 groups needs access to:

Mage
Druid
Potions (desposable cash)
Bard

In order to do the FG part??

wait so youre saying its really hard for a group to find buffs from a mage OR a druid OR to buy a potion OR to group with a bard? I disagree.
The fire damage is a laughable point anyways, the difficult part of that encounter is not being able to med or mem spells, not taking the THREE DPS from fire damage.

A lot of people end up with High Level Blinders. They forget how hard things were the first time around and it clouds thier judgement. The effect on the shield is totaly within reason considering the first had HI 6 (which also was in reason) and the amount of work involved. If anything about this shield "may" be out of reason prehaps the FT 3, as thiers not many items in the game, even high tier items that pack FT 3. But considering it gives up Mana for that big FT, its reasonable.

A lot of people also have a persecution complex that renders them completely incapable of objective thought. The first iteration of the shield was far and away the best tmap reward, the only reason that the tank range and int wrist are at all comparable is because of the lack of good items for those slots in this tier range.

If you grant that 1 FT ~50 mana (which is honestly at the low end, especially in long raid encounters or constant-pull XP groups, the shield has the equivalent of 245 mana, plus a focus effect that every player that can equip it should have at all times. You can't do better for an offhand in terms of mana until Upper Thaz, and you wouldn't replace it (if you knew what you were doing) until you had another HI7 piece.

Furthermore, your point that Brimstone Bucklers seem relatively more common to you than crystalline orbs is pretty worthless: Thaz Tower has been in game for 3-4 more years than the vah quest has, and people killing in UT likely already have a HI7 and highish FT and wouldn't need the item, as good as it is.

It's an amazingly good shield for killing difficult level (tier 1-2) treasure maps, even if one of them is IN LAVA :whoa:

 

[Kirin Folken]

So lets switch gears then, what would you do with the shield to bring it to were you feel it should be in power vs diff?

Would you nerf the Focus? (turn it into a HI 6)
Nerf the FT? (knock it down to FT 2.... FT 1?)
Nerf the Stats? (reduce mana, hps , stats or all of it?)
Make the quest harder? (but then the healer quest is out of wack compared to the others)

 

[Budizzle]

Nerf all rewards (retroactively) and write a more difficult quest that rewards an upgrade to their current state. For the final melee upgrade, add a 38%-40% haste on the earring in lieu of its current offense mod. Aside from the melee ear, they're all quite overpowered for their tier; I wouldn't replace the tank range until Enthann ruby and the caster bracelet doesn't have any realistic upgrades until FT is maxed elsewhere.

Edit: The nerfed shield would look something like this:

[MAGIC ITEM] [LORE ITEM] [NO DROP]
Slot: SECONDARY
AC: 50
Focus Effect: Healing Increment VI
Effect: Flowing Thought I (Worn)
STR: +10 STA: +15 WIS: +10 CHA: +15 HP: +95 MANA: 150
Weight: 1.0 Size: Tiny
Class: CLR DRU SHM
Race: ALL

The upgraded version would look something like this:

[MAGIC ITEM] [LORE ITEM] [NO DROP]
Slot: SECONDARY
AC: 50
Focus Effect: Healing Increment VII
Effect: Flowing Thought III (Worn)
STR: +10 STA: +20 WIS: +10 CHA: +20 HP: +95 MANA: 120
MR: +10
Weight: 1.0 Size: Tiny
Class: CLR DRU SHM
Race: ALL

 

[Kirin Folken]

Mmmm... thats an intersting concept. Taking a bit more gradual approuch to the Tmap upgrade.

What would you consider approperate Diff for the final stage?

 

[Budizzle]

Mmmm... thats an intersting concept. Taking a bit more gradual approuch to the Tmap upgrade.

What would you consider approperate Diff for the final stage?

Something to the tune of shallow Emberflow, Cmal 3.2 and 4.1, and possibly even the new zone, Haegra Malath (I have no personal experience with this zone, but it'd be pretty awesome to incorporate it).

 

[vistachiri]

wait so youre saying its really hard for a group to find buffs from a mage OR a druid OR to buy a potion OR to group with a bard? I disagree.
The fire damage is a laughable point anyways, the difficult part of that encounter is not being able to med or mem spells, not taking the THREE DPS from fire damage.


A lot of people also have a persecution complex that renders them completely incapable of objective thought. The first iteration of the shield was far and away the best tmap reward, the only reason that the tank range and int wrist are at all comparable is because of the lack of good items for those slots in this tier range.

If you grant that 1 FT ~50 mana (which is honestly at the low end, especially in long raid encounters or constant-pull XP groups, the shield has the equivalent of 245 mana, plus a focus effect that every player that can equip it should have at all times. You can't do better for an offhand in terms of mana until Upper Thaz, and you wouldn't replace it (if you knew what you were doing) until you had another HI7 piece.

Furthermore, your point that Brimstone Bucklers seem relatively more common to you than crystalline orbs is pretty worthless: Thaz Tower has been in game for 3-4 more years than the vah quest has, and people killing in UT likely already have a HI7 and highish FT and wouldn't need the item, as good as it is.

It's an amazingly good shield for killing difficult level (tier 1-2) treasure maps, even if one of them is IN LAVA :whoa:

The first shield has absolutely nothing on the caster bracer. I could go into why, but just saying slot should be completely sufficient.

Also, the first shield, other than the healing increment on it. Sucked. It wasn't used very often, most of the time skipped, with good reason. Ft is a fuck of alot harder to come by early on. Which is why the caster bracer (first iteration) also blew it clean out of the water. For a shield with no resists, 50hp, suckass stats, etc, you have an awful high opinion of it, with no real good reason. At the tier where it's useful, you're probably actually gaining more mana with a faction bound darkened shield of the storm (see wisdom)

Honestly I'd just put the tmap quest later in the vah as a sidequest that has to be unlocked. Say post collection quest from the same mob. Or lowering the healing increment a notch down to if anything.Reasonable focus items with high ft start appearing as early as sepulcher. Healing increment 6 also starts appearing as early as air/torment.

Requesting the quest be made more difficult, while not having a clue about the actual droprate % of tmap pieces needed to even complete the first part seems pretty asinine though.

Also, tm is right, around 4.2 is when it should be phasing out. You don't see it phasing out on alot of characters simply because those characters are alts, thus last in line for raiding items, and generally last in line for cmal 4.2.

 

[Budizzle]

Requesting the quest be made more difficult, while not having a clue about the actual droprate % of tmap pieces needed to even complete the first part seems pretty asinine though.

The drop rates seemed to be something like VE: 5%, E: 3-4%, Mod: 7%, D: 10%+, and that is estimated by doing a metric fuckton (read: 200+) of each type. I have a raging clue, pal. The emap piece ate about 25 maps on average each time I did it -- some less, some more. For my main, it took in excess of 60 (sixty) emaps to obtain the piece.

I'll reduce each estimate by 1% in the hope that you'll shut the fuck up and see logic, which gives you a total of 85 tmaps with horrible Nazi luck. Allowing Mr. Unfucking Lucky a very generous 40 minutes to do each map, he's looking at a maximum of 56 hours to complete the first portion of his quest. That's not bad at all, pal.

Ironically, it's pretty damn asinine to insinuate that people have no knowledge of what they speak before doing your own research.

Also, tm is right, around 4.2 is when it should be phasing out. You don't see it phasing out on alot of characters simply because those characters are alts, thus last in line for raiding items, and generally last in line for cmal 4.2.

That's an ignorant claim. Most of the emerging priestly mains have this shield equipped simply because it stomps faces. It is better than every single shield up to 4.2/UT, and even better than those if you don't have max FT or HI 7.

You're missing the point. This quest offers a single group of tier 1 toons 4.2 quality loot. That is super retard Terry Schiavo overpowered.