Evening the scales: Criticals for necros/enchanters/etc
- Thread starter Zombu
- Start date
He's not a real warrior. He's a pet.
And besides, you're now arguing something completely different from your original rant / suggestion. Balance needs to exist. We can't all have each other's skills, nor should we ever expect them. If anything, Wiz I'm sure would love to seperate the classes even more so, making each class have a unique role that is fulfilled via both the player AND the game. That said, AA's exist so that you be unique from Beastlord_01 and Beastlord_02.
Why further cross breed the classes to make Necro pets get a unique Warrior ability? It doesn't seem fair, nor balanced.
And besides, you're now arguing something completely different from your original rant / suggestion. Balance needs to exist. We can't all have each other's skills, nor should we ever expect them. If anything, Wiz I'm sure would love to seperate the classes even more so, making each class have a unique role that is fulfilled via both the player AND the game. That said, AA's exist so that you be unique from Beastlord_01 and Beastlord_02.
Why further cross breed the classes to make Necro pets get a unique Warrior ability? It doesn't seem fair, nor balanced.
Rambler said:
Well, if that's the case, why does the necro pet have all of these warrior/specific abilities in the first place? If you can make the argument against a pet's ability to critical, you can also argue against his ability to duel wield, or bash.
Hell, my pet doesn't even kick. He doesn't dodge, he doesn't parry, he doesn't repoiste (sp), etc. Yet at level 53, he can backstab. Why isn't there any "your pet isn't a rogue" talk?
SKRandar said:
I'm just getting sick of being a necro, I suppose. It just seems like we're at a comparative disadvantage versus when I played live. Our pets our weaker than live, fear isn't enabled in most zones...those really play a huge impact in our abilities as spellcasters.
Those things considered, to me, it just seems like necros lost more in the transition from live to SoD than anyone else.
Well, except maybe bards in the last patch. They really got nerfed.
Necros are more of a utility caster here. They do a little bit of everything. They have pets, they can nuke a little, they can dot, they can transfer mana, mana drain mobs and recourse the party/raid, target fd, mez, etc. That's their role.
And don't get jealous of Enchanters. After they hit 65 they are nothing but Haste/JB bots and Vex/Rune spammers on raids.
And don't get jealous of Enchanters. After they hit 65 they are nothing but Haste/JB bots and Vex/Rune spammers on raids.
Your conclusion is sort of correct, but your argument is totally wrong.
First of all, on live, all your great ideas about pet crits (and pet flurries, even pet FD) and dot crits did happen, in gates of discord (or oow) iirc. Reason? Wizards took the dps and ran with it.
Say whatever you want about 'well wizards can only do x,' but it's the SIMPLICITY of the matter. Instead of 'only' it should be 'all [you have to do is].' You mean all I do is press the nuke key and concussion till I'm oom then manafree nuke and I'm highest dps? lol? Rogues/Monks/Rangers/Beasts were never the highest because all they have to do is press auto attack and special.
Yea, necros took a massive hit on SoD. 1. no fast cast snare 2. no fast cast lifetap (HUGELY reduced dps and tanking ability) 3. no dot crits of any kind 4. no lifetap DD beyond 720, even at 65 with relics. 5. no lich above level 60. Seems necs have degenerated to manabots here, which is sad.
What did wizards score? Ultimate blast, 4x base damage, and NOT rare by any means, with the correct AA. I won't take primals (8x base) into account since it's a 2% chance off an ultimate blast. Mana free nukes for sustained dps. Yea, not incredible, but a pretty big bone to throw.
On live, wizards and necs were about dead even (if played correctly) for ever. Here, it's not even close.
The idea of DPS classes is to get them all within a range together, which they failed pretty badly at on live. I don't know the complete spread of all classes here, so I can't really say. [note: 'all,' I'm not contradicting myself here]
3.1 cast lifetap with damage in the 800s, or the ability for dots to crit would help a ton, imo. But stuff like this never changes, so I shouldn't have even bothered. Could have a specific dot line that lasts twice as long as the standard 4 ticks (24s) and costs twice the mana. It would drive me crazy constantly stacking dots if I played a nec here.
Zombu-
You came into this, guns flaring, at level 48. The game isn't balanced for level 48s to gripe about balance; everything is top down. Get 65 (it's not hard) and some AA and spells, then learn to not suck at the game. You might then have a valid post for people. On a special note, fear is the most over hyped spell in the history of the game. Ever heard of agro kiting? if fear affects your gameplay quit necro now. On live all mobs in the game 55+ were immune.
First of all, on live, all your great ideas about pet crits (and pet flurries, even pet FD) and dot crits did happen, in gates of discord (or oow) iirc. Reason? Wizards took the dps and ran with it.
Say whatever you want about 'well wizards can only do x,' but it's the SIMPLICITY of the matter. Instead of 'only' it should be 'all [you have to do is].' You mean all I do is press the nuke key and concussion till I'm oom then manafree nuke and I'm highest dps? lol? Rogues/Monks/Rangers/Beasts were never the highest because all they have to do is press auto attack and special.
Yea, necros took a massive hit on SoD. 1. no fast cast snare 2. no fast cast lifetap (HUGELY reduced dps and tanking ability) 3. no dot crits of any kind 4. no lifetap DD beyond 720, even at 65 with relics. 5. no lich above level 60. Seems necs have degenerated to manabots here, which is sad.
What did wizards score? Ultimate blast, 4x base damage, and NOT rare by any means, with the correct AA. I won't take primals (8x base) into account since it's a 2% chance off an ultimate blast. Mana free nukes for sustained dps. Yea, not incredible, but a pretty big bone to throw.
On live, wizards and necs were about dead even (if played correctly) for ever. Here, it's not even close.
The idea of DPS classes is to get them all within a range together, which they failed pretty badly at on live. I don't know the complete spread of all classes here, so I can't really say. [note: 'all,' I'm not contradicting myself here]
3.1 cast lifetap with damage in the 800s, or the ability for dots to crit would help a ton, imo. But stuff like this never changes, so I shouldn't have even bothered. Could have a specific dot line that lasts twice as long as the standard 4 ticks (24s) and costs twice the mana. It would drive me crazy constantly stacking dots if I played a nec here.
Zombu-
You came into this, guns flaring, at level 48. The game isn't balanced for level 48s to gripe about balance; everything is top down. Get 65 (it's not hard) and some AA and spells, then learn to not suck at the game. You might then have a valid post for people. On a special note, fear is the most over hyped spell in the history of the game. Ever heard of agro kiting? if fear affects your gameplay quit necro now. On live all mobs in the game 55+ were immune.
to be more specific on the lich line, on live the 64 lich was 63 dmg for 50 something mana. the 60 is 53 for 35. there was also a pvp reduction (66% of the actual base dmg taken), not sure if that reduction was implemented here, but it was designed with that in mind. Big difference between 64 and 60? yep.
I realize the 65 wiz relic isn't exactly strike of solusek (2700 and change), but 2250 isn't bad, pretty big upgrade from 1890. I'm assuming moon comet is like, 1 on the server, so I won't take that into account (2500), even though it technically exists.
Not trying to get wizards nerfed. I don't even play a nec on SoD, so you can shove your 'class envy' posts ahead of time.
I realize the 65 wiz relic isn't exactly strike of solusek (2700 and change), but 2250 isn't bad, pretty big upgrade from 1890. I'm assuming moon comet is like, 1 on the server, so I won't take that into account (2500), even though it technically exists.
Not trying to get wizards nerfed. I don't even play a nec on SoD, so you can shove your 'class envy' posts ahead of time.
Thinkmeats
War Is Good For Business
Zombu buddy I loves you but you should really wait until you hit 65 before suggesting sweeping balance changes. Not that the opinions of 65s are more valid than lower levels'--they aren't--but that, empyrically speaking, a whopping two out of your 47 posts are in forums not named "Suggestions & Requests". Making so many requests so often will dilute your ability to request in the future--you know that phrase "pick your battles"? If it's an issue, someone else will pick up the torch. If you're the only necro asking for this stuff then you should probably not be posting about it. Wait and see, talk to other necros to find out how they deal with issues; adapt yourself first and only try to adapt the game second.
Thinkmeats said:
Well, I frequent here because the other forums are dead and I have no tradeskills to ask about, but I am thinking about taking up tailoring.
I understand what you're saying to an extent, but I do think there is a bit of too much focus placed on "at 65, XYZ happens". What about 1-49? Are the problems found at those places null and void?
Well, I'm not trying to champion any causes. Sometimes my suggestions are totally ignored, and sometimes they are actually used. I suggested a 2x damage 50% duration on a spell that Wiz agreed was messed up. If anything, my biggest complaint about the necro class is the lack of fear. Yes, I know I can root (albeit at level 34, which is a long time between any other caster). Yes, I know I can snare (albeit I'm using the same snare at 48 that I used at 29). Yes, I know I can run away and med while my pet tanks, but you know what works a lot better than that? Your pet beating the Hell out of a mob while your dots slowly peck away at it while the mob runs away in fear so he isn't even fighting back.
Guess what? Can't do that here.
People keep saying "aggro kiting", but the simple fact of the matter is aggro kiting is no where near as mana/time efficient as fear kiting.
If a mob is feared, I can med with impunity. If he is still aggro at me, I have to keep running away.
If a mob is feared, my pet can bash away with no worries. If he is aggro at me, he might very well go aggro on my pet next.
Since I can't fear, I have to rely on spells that are totally and utterly misbalanced in regards to level. I hated that on live, a 20 level gap between dooming/cascading darkness and boil/ignite blood, as well as getting root at 34 when everyone else gets it much earlier (as early as level 4), and getting the next root upgrade in the 50s. But when I had fear, I never rooted, and when I had fear, damage duration didn't matter that much, since I could in essence keep the mob from actually fighting back.
No fear absolutely cripples necromancers due to a horrible gap when you get certain spells at certain levels.
Ice Comet looks nice and stuff, but it sucks for it's mana cost. Your better off using the two low damage/mana nukes instead.
Warriors, Wizards, and Clerics naturally critical hit. All other classes need AAs.
And wizards don't do two times the damage cause they crit. Their crit chance is around 10% or something.
All classes get better with AAs, which is something you'll have to understand.
Hello it's called utility that is given to other classes. If you want pure damage, make a wizard.
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And you HAVE to base things like this on high level content because when you get those AAs after, were going to have to idiotic overpowered classes.
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The initial DD of the DoT can by crit. (with AAs, oh nos, I'm looking too far ahead!)
Yes, all warriors get an inate life tap...
Go roll a wizard. They aren't as insane as you think. Necro get huge power regen, can solo very, very well, and can FD off any agro. You didn't seem to add any of that to your arguements.
Warriors, Wizards, and Clerics naturally critical hit. All other classes need AAs.
And wizards don't do two times the damage cause they crit. Their crit chance is around 10% or something.
All classes get better with AAs, which is something you'll have to understand.
Hello it's called utility that is given to other classes. If you want pure damage, make a wizard.
____________
And you HAVE to base things like this on high level content because when you get those AAs after, were going to have to idiotic overpowered classes.
____________
The initial DD of the DoT can by crit. (with AAs, oh nos, I'm looking too far ahead!)
Yes, all warriors get an inate life tap...
Go roll a wizard. They aren't as insane as you think. Necro get huge power regen, can solo very, very well, and can FD off any agro. You didn't seem to add any of that to your arguements.
Raherin said:
It is pretty mana hungry, I'll give you that.
I know that, but 10% is better than 0%.
Not all dots have an initial DD. Hell, most don't.
That lifetap starts at level 44.
Mage earth elementals get root at level 4.
Notice the level discrepancy?
Can't FD off any aggro. Tell that to my corpse which went from faking it to needing a res when the mob kept pounding me after a FD.
I don't know what you mean by power regen.
We can solo well, but you can't solo as well as if you had fear. Try putting this fear thing into context. How would you casters feel if your root didn't work in 90% of zones?
The biggest problems I have with the necro class are the poor spell level arrangement and lack of fear. Since Wiz isn't putting fear everywhere anytime soon, nor re-arranging the spells, I try to come up with alternative solutions to make up for the discrepancy.