Entwined Existance

[Breigon]

On another note, while views on boxing characters may change, it undeniable that many people on this server play 2 or more characters. Most of who start them around the time and these characters have progessed together for their entire careers, however as you get higher in tier, boxing fights on tier become less and less plausible as fight mechanics and expectations of awareness and reaction are increased. So you end up in most cases picking the most needed of your characters and then dragging leaving the other behind, shedding a silent tier for every piece of gear you watch rot away on a corpse that your other toon could have used but you couldn't bring them because you were needed on the current.

So what im proposing is a system similar to adventure banding, where you can basically entwine 2 of your characters together, enabling them to trade no drop tagged items between each other. After a limited amount of input that ive had from friends so far, I've come to the conclusion that making this a permanent status between 2 characters would reduce the ways that it could be exploited. As a temporary system identical to adventure banding would enable things like selling higher end loots, and the purpose of this system tome is to help people who are putting the work in. not enable people to buy their way through the game. Also perhaps adding a "bro-code" type rule where you have to own both characters seems reasonable.

Coding-wise, I would think that you could use some of the guestlock system code and if the item is being traded to a character that is "entwined" then it will be allowed if it isn't a no-drop quest/quested item.

That way you would get the loot on the other toon, no fancy magical send, and you have a mechanic for doing the checking to make sure you are "gearing" your entwined toon and not some other toon.

I like the permanent status part because at some point your two toons will start to balance out and prevent the ability to entwine a different toon to "regear" it, rinse repeat.

 

[enasc]

Why is this needed in the first place?

Good question.

I'm not sure I understand what problem, beyond allowing alts to tier jump (is this really too slow right now? I don't know), this will solve. Though it certainly appears like it would speed up that process.

 

[mechkl]

i almost feel like some of you people didn't even read the thread before posting.... the last 3 posts questioning the idea and literally answered in the initial post...

 

[Moraelintz]

Good question.

I'm not sure I understand what problem, beyond allowing alts to tier jump (is this really too slow right now? I don't know), this will solve. Though it certainly appears like it would speed up that process.

I went ahead and re read your first post and you are putting in a system to allow people to hear up 2 toons instead if one by only playing the more needed in a raid.

I think this is a bad idea. If you want to play a different toon then play that toon. Nobody has a gun to your head and forcing you to play a different toon. It is nice to reduce the number of rots, but if a toon cannot survive/be in on the fight they have no business getting loot from it.

Like others have said would just allow alts to tier jump easier and I think that is detrimental to the server.

 

[mechkl]

im do not understand what elitist position you guys are sitting in where you are saying if you cant play your favorite class then screw everyone else and play what you want, but in the real world where you play with your friends and don't treat your guild like a corporation that isn't always possible. you have to look at this like you haven't been top 5% of the server for the last 3 years where any class you need is will to abandon their friends in a quest for loots.

Talk to people like Ynnear and Silreth, who both now have to main clerics because their just werent enough healers around when they were a necromancer and beastlord. So instead of letting every raid die to not enough healers they stepped up to help out. This idea is to make the game fun. And the general idea is to reduce rots.

And i still dont see a problem with a lets say a teir 13 sk with 80 tomes who rolls a beastlord cause hes pretty much done all he can on his sk, and wants to get his beastlord some rot gear. How does this effect you in a negative way? Its not like the characters not gonna get scrubbed in for gear on things anyways. And he still is killing the monster, he still is camping the mob and clearing the trash. But what your saying is he didn't do it the way you did it so its wrong?

PLEASE inform me how this idea is hurting other peoples fun at all?

I cant tell you how many times ive gone on 6 mans with a 5+ item drop list that we needed 1-2 items from out of the 6 people there, it drops 2-3 items and none of which we needed... time to "/ooc grats rot Crystalis, Gauntlets of Roiling Rancor, The Caretaker's Will"
thats what kills fun...

 

[Moraelintz]

The reasons I am against it is that you are not playing the toon to benefit it. If you want something you should work for it just like anyone else. It will not solve any of the 'problems' people have. If you want to play a charachter play that charachter.

 

[mechkl]

Thats where i see the flaw in your argument. You are still doing the work, hence the permanent status of the "band" and the need to own both characters. YOU are still doing the work, YOU are killing the mob same you would have to kill it anyways, YOU are still spending time. Its like your paying someone to work for you but telling them they can only buy skittles with the money. AND rotting things IS a problem, maybe your just to jaded to recognize it anymore but that is a problem, by games now a days have systems that identify present classes and/or have migrated to token systems. SO another solution would be change every boss to 4.3 weapon system.

If someone wants to waste their time decking out a level 10 warrior is level 65 raid gear... more power to them, what did it break? is that level 10 warrior with a screaming lance killing your gaming experience, because sounds like that guys having fun. complete waste of the potential of the system but also if that is the worst thing to come out of this then so be it. If your refering to and influx of well geared but tomeless characters, their are tons already, and gear is only half the battle here, if you dont have the exp the gear wont mean a whole lot.

Edit: shit how hard would it be to require that the characters been the same level.

 

[enasc]

AND rotting things IS a problem

Is it? I mean yeah, things rot. It happens. Sometimes people even /ooc about it, who knows why.

But I guess the real question I have is: Is that really a problem? The character couldn't make the raid, so he didn't get loots from it. That sounds fair to me. Regardless of whether the person behind the character was there or not. I guess that's just where we disagree, because I don't believe it is a real problem.

 

[Moraelintz]

Is it? I mean yeah, things rot. It happens. Sometimes people even /ooc about it, who knows why.

But I guess the real question I have is: Is that really a problem? The character couldn't make the raid, so he didn't get loots from it. That sounds fair to me. Regardless of whether the person behind the character was there or not. I guess that's just where we disagree, because I don't believe it is a real problem.

The heart of the issue is if the dev/gm team believes this to be a true problem or a percieved one. If they think it is a real problem then they will most likely deal with it if not it will get pushed under a rug.


Also, I am not debating that the person is doing the work. I still think if the charachter isnt in they don't deserve the loot. Same philosophy as why you have to be within 15 levels to loot a mob.

 

[mechkl]

one of ur characters couldnt make it cause of pigeon hole arch type class rolls, lets just keep everything the way its been because thats how its always been. Change is bad okay.

lets say you go and get a chesseburger, but you significant other had to stay home cause you only have a motorcycle. you go eat a chesseburger but its was buy 1 get 1 but you cant eat 2, so you throw it away in the trash cause they werent there.. they dont deserve it... sounds legit?
cause if it does, it makes sense why you have so much free time....

 

[sheer1]

This is a really funny thread and it makes me laugh

Pros:
- Hard work pays off in the end more often with far less rots. and we all not rot is well enough geared, screw that guy.

Hint: if a guild is rotting an excessive amount of gear, then maybe that guild should just go raid somewhere else with gear no one already has.

I do understand how opuses may keep people raiding certain zones longer than others, but in that case why does it seem ok to gear up 36 people instead of the 18 who are there to get things already?

- A possible influx of newer tanks and healers, because now they can get in on this stuff that they were always waiting to be one of the dps rotated through on, now can do it on a tank/healer without forsaking their other class.

this doesn't really make any sense, unless you are implying some high end character will hug it out with a brand new player's tank/healer and shower them with rot loots. That will probably even make that new person get bored and quit.

otherwise, it wouldn't be newer tanks and healers, it would just be some guys alt.

if a toon cannot survive/be in on the fight they have no business getting loot from it.

pretty much this is the bottom line. its already incredibly easy to gear up an alt, is this really something that we need to make easier?

 

[Moraelintz]

one of ur characters couldnt make it cause of pigeon hole arch type class rolls, lets just keep everything the way its been because thats how its always been. Change is bad okay.

lets say you go and get a chesseburger, but you significant other had to stay home cause you only have a motorcycle. you go eat a chesseburger but its was buy 1 get 1 but you cant eat 2, so you throw it away in the trash cause they werent there.. they dont deserve it... sounds legit?
cause if it does, it makes sense why you have so much free time....

If this was the case I would be smart and buy a car. That way she could come be there and eat a cheeseburger.

 

[Moraelintz]

And again reehs is the voice of reason. What is this world coming too?

 

[DernipDaGnome]

I tire of alts.

 

[mechkl]

this doesn't really make any sense, unless you are implying some high end character will hug it out with a brand new player's tank/healer and shower them with rot loots. That will probably even make that new person get bored and quit.

i find is hilarious the people talking about people getting bored and quitting and people who got bored and quit... yet still troll the forums.

I'm sick of repeating myself over and over. My words apparently fall on deaf ears.

 

[Moraelintz]

Reehs still plays we hung out last week.

 

[sheer1]

i dont know how to respond to criticism so im going to ignore that guy and uh say hes a troll. yea, that'll show him...

YEA

 

[Dinadass]

If you want to gear up an alt, just box it when your guild is killing a mob that will rot loot that you want. I'm pretty sure numerous people have boxed characters on every single 18 man fight in the game so "high tier content is hard to box" isn't a compelling enough argument IMO. I'm not a good 2boxer yet I've boxed most of the tier 11-12 fights in the game at one time or another.

Or, organize a pickup raid. Dozens (hundreds?) of alts have been geared out in a few weeks by doing this. Once you have ToT/Frost/UC gear and a decent charm it's not too hard to handle Spires, Sanctum, most of Tur'ruj.

 

[bloog]

Also if you are rotting a ton of loot maybe you should do harder content

 

[donfolstar3]

Do not like!

Seems like a hugely convoluted and difficult to code system rife with possible exploits.

However, the problem you point out IS something worth finding solutions to. The biggest problem is that in order to advance a tank you need raid gear, but 99% of people would rather have a tank who does not need any gear from the encounter they are doing. Your next best option is try and find a guild who will pity gear you instead of just dust off one of a dozen tanks with better gear. The next best option, or maybe the best option when you consider how much less time it would take, is to randomly knock on doors IRL until you find someone who plays SoD and has an uber tank then steal their identity.

Seriously though, if tanks, healer, and everyone else had more nonraiding options for gearing that'd be swell. Maybe having bounty rewards other than belts/weapons, making thurg rewards xpable, putting in that "only stuff usable to the group there" code for cmal, making another zone like cmal 1/2 with nothing to attract uber players, and other stuff to make the game more welcoming to newbs and chronic bads like myself. Taking another look at tmap (why is D map gear so bad?) and tiers 1-3 which drop an awful lot of junky items would be nice too.