Entwined Existance

Seriously though, if tanks, healer, and everyone else had more nonraiding options for gearing that'd be swell.

Absolutely.

(Begin: probably not the right thread for this)

In my opinion, options for progression outside of raiding would be excellent, and could present an avenue to solve a number of issues that have been looked at recently.

As you mentioned, Thurg bounties have been a great step in that direction. Log in and kill monsters with friends, collect tokens, build up some pretty solid gear. It's some very tangible progression that can involve everyone.

I would imagine that people are more likely to quit because their SoD lives have stagnated, and they see no alternatives to hardcore raiding than because someone ooc'd that 6-man loot was rotting.

(End: probably not the right thread for this)
 
Implement LDoN type dungeons and vendors. Gear up to T9 that is what is easily pug-able nowadays. 6 or more difficulty lvl dungeons. Each difficulty provides different type tokens but gear on each bracket goes up to T9 (just like not all T9 loot are created equal likewise the lower brackets tier T9 loots will look less desirable). You select what difficulty you want to do. No limits! If they want to grind non stop for that T9 gear let them. Instanced dungeons, with randomization between 6 different places in each difficulty level. Ie. say a T3 dungeon with 6 different randomized zones that you could get ported too.
 
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Would be nice to get some new dungeon crawl, the token system could easily be an extension of the bounty system. If it would give out raid level gear I doubt it would get higher then T5 or 6, but that would get anyone solidly setup.
 
People will have to change their mantra and direct their comments about killing harder targets to Sacred Band as they are now the highest active raid guild.
 
Unnecessary OP post-mortem:

I think one problem with people leaving this game is that to do anything you need healers and tanks, however their are far more of a need for these then people who enjoy playing them.

With this as the opening line I was a bit surprised to find the idea wouldn't really help this at all. You get to pawn gear off to another character, okay; you get to grind with that character easier, sure; but when raid time comes around and it matters at all, you and/or others will almost certainly put them aside yet again to play the Required Character/Retired Legacy Character/what have you. Maybe some like grinding much more than raiding (I can understand that) but in the game we have grinding can't/doesn't replace raiding as far as progression goes, and if you want to progress this idea won't really help the stated problem at all. Maybe sometimes a geared alt will be able to fill a non-healer non-tank spot when someone doesn't show up or leaves a guild... but then someone else will have to fill the healer/tank slot opened up unless you're boxing it.

Loot could work in a lot of different ways. In my opinion the totally blind random drop system is fairly dumb for raid loot, serving mainly to let people's time be wasted (good if you're getting subscription fees from them, but not necessary). Even if you were able to paw items off onto alts, it would still be pretty frustrating to go up against a progression target and get 2x an item you no longer need for actual progression of your main raid force. If the annoyingness of rots were taken as the main issue, I think there would be better, more progression-friendly ways to change loot. Checking through the inventories and classes of everyone to see if any potential drops should be excluded would probably be too complicated and error-prone (either people would need to keep the exact loot this particular encounter drops in their inventories even after they are replaced, or it would need to be able to determine when one item is "better" than another while still allowing niche loot through). Someone simpler like "collect 3 rot drops from this encounter, turn them in for an item of your choice from the same encounter" (maybe with the number needed scaled up for rarer drops) would probably be most palatable/least disruptive to how things work currently while still making rots not a total waste.

Other than that, I think any change to the strict loot eligibility rules (having to be in the killing raid) to make them less strict would kind of defeat that strictness altogether. Restrictions should only really need to discourage loot selling then, in my opinion; having restrictions just to limit the ability to share loot/make the system obtuse to use would be unnecessary. Perhaps we could just define progression as something a guild does rather than just a raid. Something like, "loot can be awarded to anyone in the killing raid, OR any character has been in the killing guild for at least a month and is level 65" (with the "killing guild" being defined by 2/3 majority within the raid or some such). Characters getting loot they haven't "earned," especially from encounters that they might not have been able to beat if that character had been in the raid, is a bit iffy, which is why our system is strict in the first place; on the other hand, giving loot to alts doesn't help progression as such and would make it easier to eventually replace Retired Legacy Characters if nothing else. As long as loot selling was illegal, I think it could potentially work.

Disregard all that though.
 
(good if you're getting subscription fees from them, but not necessary).

So much of Classic EQ was designed around this, later glorified by sadsacks, and joyously integrated into this server that probably everyone on this server is a textbook masochist. 18 people getting together to spend hours trying to kill something that drops two whole items that we may or not need- sign me up! Mindlessly grinding for hours [I am assuming non-ringer non-bonus xp here] to get maybe a two% of one of five codexes- omfg where can I sign away the other 249 days?! Farming plat for months and months and months to upgrade a single slot- I love my life! What's that, they changed my class and now I think it is kind of stupid/bad/broken- guess i'm starting all over again with no other recourse! Woot. Party fun times.
 
The reasons I am against it is that you are not playing the toon to benefit it. If you want something you should work for it just like anyone else. It will not solve any of the 'problems' people have. If you want to play a charachter play that charachter.

So, my question is this moralin, lets say I bring my shit druid to a t8-9 raid zone, and I bring my pally who is over tiered for it. My druid sits there afk the whole time while im actively playing my pally. My druid did no work just sat there did nothing AF'd on the pally when needed did no healing or nothing. Should my druid be entitled to loots? was he there? YES. Did he help out in any shape or form? No based on your theory my druid who did nothing even though he was there should be exempt from loot cause he didn't WORK for his loot.
 
So, my question is this moralin, lets say I bring my shit druid to a t8-9 raid zone, and I bring my pally who is over tiered for it. My druid sits there afk the whole time while im actively playing my pally. My druid did no work just sat there did nothing AF'd on the pally when needed did no healing or nothing. Should my druid be entitled to loots? was he there? YES. Did he help out in any shape or form? No based on your theory my druid who did nothing even though he was there should be exempt from loot cause he didn't WORK for his loot.

The scenario you describe is one where your druid did not contribute at all, likely didn't even get on tha mobs hatelist. This disqualifys him from getting loot, to the point of loot getting revoked if found out.
 
The scenario you describe is one where your druid did not contribute at all, likely didn't even get on tha mobs hatelist. This disqualifys him from getting loot, to the point of loot getting revoked if found out.

/eyeroll

Seriously? On a server where a notable percentage of the players spend the majority of their time playing entire characters they did not earn or contribute at all to creating? Where adventure bands, something devs took time and effort to create, allow a character to completely level and/or grind all AAs without ever even logging on?
 
The scenario you describe is one where your druid did not contribute at all, likely didn't even get on tha mobs hatelist. This disqualifys him from getting loot, to the point of loot getting revoked if found out.


Right which would be the same as the entwining they are bringing up here. and in this logic there should be no adv bands either.
 
Adventure bands are a moot point, all the exp in the world won't make an un-geared character any good. Still, if you want to really gear your alt you are perfectly allowed to get 17 other geared players who know raid mechanics and can drag your character through the mud until rots magically appear in your inventory.
Full disclosure: that's how I got any loot ever.
 
I mean its the same thing group a level 1 with a 65 go plow a zone get 55-65 in a day or so then adv band him the alt never touched or saw a mob the only difference here would be its loot instead of xp.
I don't see a difference in either.
 
I don't know if you ever grouped a level 1 with a 65 and tried to exp. it is exponentially faster to do it on the lvl 1 solo or I'm low level group.

Adventure bands are different, it is just exp you gain some "power" but the investment is at the cost of exp to another. Entwining there is no such cost.
 
yeah, ok take a level 1 to necrop pull the whole zone a few times an dget back with me about that. And there could be with entwining with the idea of having to loot 2-3 multiple rot loots to get the one you want
 
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