Entwined Existance

[mechkl]

I think one problem with people leaving this game is that to do anything you need healers and tanks, however their are far more of a need for these then people who enjoy playing them. However many people play a tank or an healer as a mained alt, shelfing their alts for the greater good of progression.

On another note, while views on boxing characters may change, it undeniable that many people on this server play 2 or more characters. Most of who start them around the time and these characters have progessed together for their entire careers, however as you get higher in tier, boxing fights on tier become less and less plausible as fight mechanics and expectations of awareness and reaction are increased. So you end up in most cases picking the most needed of your characters and then dragging leaving the other behind, shedding a silent tier for every piece of gear you watch rot away on a corpse that your other toon could have used but you couldn't bring them because you were needed on the current.

So what im proposing is a system similar to adventure banding, where you can basically entwine 2 of your characters together, enabling them to trade no drop tagged items between each other. After a limited amount of input that ive had from friends so far, I've come to the conclusion that making this a permanent status between 2 characters would reduce the ways that it could be exploited. As a temporary system identical to adventure banding would enable things like selling higher end loots, and the purpose of this system tome is to help people who are putting the work in. not enable people to buy their way through the game. Also perhaps adding a "bro-code" type rule where you have to own both characters seems reasonable.

Pros:
- Hard work pays off in the end more often with far less rots. and we all not rot is well enough geared, screw that guy.
- A possible influx of newer tanks and healers, because now they can get in on this stuff that they were always waiting to be one of the dps rotated through on, now can do it on a tank/healer without forsaking their other class.

Con:
- People making you roll against their alt for loot.
- oh noes i play more then 2 characters!?
- some quest items/rewards might need to be exempt.

 

[Daffie]

As I first read this, I thought it was a horrible idea. I put some thought into it, and actually think this might be a good idea. Radical, but potentially good. I would need to put more thought into it to think about how much I really like it, and I certainly think some more changes/restrictions would need to be added.

This could actually encourage the use of ringers, but I think it would also encourage those high tier people to actually play their mains. It would certainly help when gearing up a tank...

No matter how this idea turns out, I HATE to see gear rot.

 

[Gargate]

pssh why not let raid drops be able to trade in guild, I know some folks don't like that idea but lets face it its not like there's a lot of people playing anyways. might as well spread the love.

this idea brought to you from purely a fun perspective and not a hardcore balancing act.

 

[bloog]

I don't see how this is feasible but sure I would love to gear up a character in all my old loot!

 

[mechkl]

i would love to hear ideas as to how to refine the system further and any outlying thing that could potentially break the system completely.

in retrospect all quest item should be exempt.

 

[Haruto]

Old loot you already had would be exploitative of this system proposal. In order for it to work it would require it being on the corpse, and basically function as the listsold system does. Except that it would only work for No Drop items that are on a Corpse, and only for the single character entwined to you.

In order to make it so you can't just pick and choose who you are entwined too, it would either need to be a permanent choice, or something that could be changed say once a month etc...

Feasible? Who knows, but I like the idea.

 

[mechkl]

yay, im pretty much in favor of permanent status... or something that is alot of trouble to change... like maybe staff assistance worthy....

 

[Animand]

WoW deals with similar issues with things like "Bind on Account", disenchanting (into stuff to help make new gear), and the like. There's not really any analogue on SoD to help people not experience this situation all the time. However, SoD is fundamentally different, with its prevalance of 2-boxing and the general push to have raiding 2-boxers effectively main a specific character (like a cleric) to help the guild. A system like this seems like an effective solution to these issues. I'd be interested in knowing what staff thinks as well as if we can head off potential problems with it (such as abuse) to help make this a reality.

 

[Tarutao]

WoW deals with similar issues with things like "Bind on Account", disenchanting (into stuff to help make new gear), and the like. There's not really any analogue on SoD to help people not experience this situation all the time.

With the exception of a specific set of weapons dropped by the current expansion's final raid boss introduced only 3 weeks ago, these Bind on Account items are limited in scope in that they only reach a power up to that of comparable gear at the previous expansion's maximum level.

Also, given the massive prevalence of what equates to "Required level" gear on WoW, it's reasonable to suggest that many Bind on Equip items obtained at level 65 in Shards of Dalaya are a kinda-close comparisons to and more powerful than the referenced WoW items.

That said, the suggestion that opened this thread seems to be moreso in consideration of raid-obtained items. I'm not sure how I feel about that yet, but the fact that I haven't come up with a list of reasons why it's a bad idea yet is a good sign. STAFF CAVEAT -- THIS IS NOT MY DEPARTMENT AND ITS BALANCE, CODING, IMPLEMENTATION, RESTRICTIONS, OR DENIAL ALL PROBABLY WOULD INVOLVE ME INDIRECTLY ONLY, IF AT ALL.

 

[mechkl]

without making it a whole buggy mess in the coding department is also something i try to think about when coming up with solutions and general mechanics of the system...

granted i have very limited to no experience in this client what so ever and and have never run my own emulation of EQ... but i was thinking easiest way would be the people in the "band" during the trading process when the no drop item was attempted to be traded to the other character the server saw and exemption code for trading between those characters for gear that was tagged no drop, where as generally it would say hell no... problem with this is is quest items and the such and even old gear... i dont want to create and hierloom system with this...

the second idea i had was an npc in a your house perhaps that you agreed to "entwine" with the other character, gave the npc a list of gear that fit the criteria for trading to other characters (seemed like the accepted list would be much shorter then the list of quest items and other misc no drop items that shouldn't be traded). and that npc mail style delivers it to the other character... again i wonder if adding BoE too no drop items would be too messy or impossible..

The general idea behind this is i still want the item to have to be worked for by the person, but i dont think we should keep penalizing people for taking the bullet and playing needed classes, or rotting gear because the right class wasn't there. And yes tao this is mostly aimed and the 65 level of game play.

 

[Manluas]

I like the reasoning behind this idea but I see a few problems coming up.

First off I'm not quite sure, whether it's codable at all to exclude already existing items from this rule (I could gear an IP-sorta tank with shit rotting on Luas) which could cause a lot of headache.
Furthermore I see a certain problem, when it comes to specific drops (Relic, Archaic, Ritual, Runic spells and the like). Those probably count towards "quest items" but I see major whining potential about where to draw the line between what's tradeable and what not.

That having said you have to look into what characters are entwinable and the like. I have spent most of my SoD-career playing Luas (who I own) and a box a toon I do not own but play solely (Hi2you Balthor, Naoma (RIP /sadface) and as of present: Sauga). Just thinking about any sort of restriction I'd hate to not be able to link Luas // Sauga as an example.

So yeah: TL;DR: I like the idea but do see a ton of trouble with any way of implementing it.

 

[mechkl]

using the npc idea... excluding items seems and simple as a filter to what the npc will take.

and gearing a character you own if gear that dropped from stuff you killed? where is teh problem... you did the work? you shouldnt get a reward?

 

[Manluas]

and gearing a character you own if gear that dropped from stuff you killed? where is teh problem... you did the work? you shouldnt get a reward?

I don't see a problem at all. I see possible problems where someone took over a certain toon, geared that up but gets excluded because he doesn't own the toon originally. Just outlining a possible problem.
As I wrote: I like the thoughts and the reasonings behind that. I just see possible problems depending on how stuff will be restricted.

Edit: Typos.

 

[Vitali]

I actually really like the concept of this. Good idea imo.

 

[Nwaij]

I see possible problems where someone took over a certain toon, geared that up but gets excluded because he doesn't own the toon originally.

As far as staff is concerned, he still doesn't own the toon, and he never will. The sole and only owner of a toon is the owner of the original registration email adress.

So if this was to happen, I'd expect that the 2 toons would have to be from the same registration email.

STAFF CAVEAT -- THIS IS NOT MY DEPARTMENT AND ITS BALANCE, CODING, IMPLEMENTATION, RESTRICTIONS, OR DENIAL ALL PROBABLY WOULD INVOLVE ME INDIRECTLY ONLY, IF AT ALL.

 

[Moraelintz]

I see this as being a terrible idea and just causing more problems than it is worth. What is to stop someone from entwining with a super high end dude and then ringing the crap out of things for gear. In theory I could now have a lvl 1 warrior with a raid loots.

If someone is upset that they can't play thier alt in a guild or raid that is thier chose and thier fight to fight. This just leads to trouble and most likely exploitation. On top of that why use the gm/dev time with something like this when other things should have a much higher priority. Also we are all already allowed to box so we can have 2 dudes in at once.

 

[vistachiri]

This sounds like a great idea. Well done. With that I'm going to slip in and defend it.

I see this as being a terrible idea and just causing more problems than it is worth. What is to stop someone from entwining with a super high end dude and then ringing the crap out of things for gear. In theory I could now have a lvl 1 warrior with a raid loots.

So? You want to shoot down a so far almost universally hailed idea on the basis that someone can use it for what is ostensibly a joke, and a fairly funny one at that?

If someone is upset that they can't play thier alt in a guild or raid that is thier chose and thier fight to fight. This just leads to trouble and most likely exploitation.

If you were arguing an actual angle for exploitation, I would expect an actual example, instead of vague foreboding.

On top of that why use the gm/dev time with something like this when other things should have a much higher priority.

It should become readily apparent to you why you should not use this argument if you go out to the forum and read around a bit.

Also we are all already allowed to box so we can have 2 dudes in at once.

The very first post already addresses this.

I like the reasoning behind this idea but I see a few problems coming up.

First off I'm not quite sure, whether it's codable at all to exclude already existing items from this rule (I could gear an IP-sorta tank with shit rotting on Luas) which could cause a lot of headache.
Furthermore I see a certain problem, when it comes to specific drops (Relic, Archaic, Ritual, Runic spells and the like). Those probably count towards "quest items" but I see major whining potential about where to draw the line between what's tradeable and what not.

That having said you have to look into what characters are entwinable and the like. I have spent most of my SoD-career playing Luas (who I own) and a box a toon I do not own but play solely (Hi2you Balthor, Naoma (RIP /sadface) and as of present: Sauga). Just thinking about any sort of restriction I'd hate to not be able to link Luas // Sauga as an example.

So yeah: TL;DR: I like the idea but do see a ton of trouble with any way of implementing it.

Hmm, it may be a bit messy, but how about a command while one is on the actual corpse that essentially sends the item to an npc, who then dispenses the item to the bonded character when they go and speak to said npc. Like the magic package delivery service mentioned. Add a fee, and voila an effective cash sink.

Or..hmm. There already is a certain amount of time to move bind on equip gear. Just apply that same timer to raid gear, and somehow limit the trading to only characters sharing that status?

 

[bloog]

Why is this needed in the first place?

 

[Haruto]

Old loot you already had would be exploitative of this system proposal. In order for it to work it would require it being on the corpse, and basically function as the listsold system does. Except that it would only work for No Drop items that are on a Corpse, and only for the single character entwined to you.

In order to make it so you can't just pick and choose who you are entwined too, it would either need to be a permanent choice, or something that could be changed say once a month etc...

Feasible? Who knows, but I like the idea.

Quoting myself as I already mentioned the listsold off of corpse balance idea lol.

Basically seems like just a great idea to limit rot drops. Would not be able to just send the loot to any random person, just the singular char you were entwined with for that period.

So anything rotting would then get some use, as anyone present who wanted it would take priority. Only real method for abuse is gearing up someone who isn't there easier, and even then other people would have to care enough to help you unless your 2 box farming no drops for your Alts. And if so doesn't really hurt anyone. Just makes a new and interesting method of gearing up that in all probability may never happen anyway.

 

[fxattack]

It doesn't seem needed at all. No Drop is pretty self explanatory. Earn it to loot it, loot it to use it. And the 'existence' of a system like this would lead to the worst kind of backgearing and farming, like if everyone had their own Grupo to throw gear onto. Don't devalue the Grupo.