End Game Options
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defixio
Dalayan Elder
Literally every zone that isn't clearly intended to be a raid should have summoning removed. ALL outdoor ikisith (with baldakin exceptions as that seems to be designed to be a raid/phat group encounter) has obnoxious amounts of summoning mobs. Below is my post from last year about this subject.
It's very disheartening when you play a character for 65 levels then the game changes and you can't do your classes tricks anymore. I 100% agree that too many mobs summon, as well as immune to runspeed, immune to root, immune to fear, or immune to CC.
I appreciate that some classes shine in some areas. a high tier tank+healbox will be the vastly superior way to farm, or do most quests. It shouldn't be basically impossible to kill yard trash/quest mobs/easy-cash-farm mobs with your kiting/cc/rootrot classes. It is pretty awful to have a major aspect of your classes play-style cut out from under you after playing it as long as OP has.
No need to change raid zones/encounters, checkpoint mobs, and most names at all. I promise if you made zero non-raidzone yard trash summon, immune to runspeed change, fear, or root....it would still be substantially faster (and safer) to still get a tank + healbox and DS+aoe everything to death than to kite it.
(and to add in, I took a few years off of SoD before coming back and one of the major factors was that i couldn't progress any more outside of raid. everyone's advice was "log in with this ringer tank i have info for bro" and it didn't feel like i was playing the game anymore with the character i made. that seems like where OP may be headed)
The summoning is archaic and actively detriments playing your character vs boxing a ringer to accomplish things (which is one of the worse elements to SoD when you're new).
I haven't played for a while (partially because necromancer is turds. See Also: everything summons).
Man, why does everyone shit on necromancers? I'm like one of 2 people that find the class enjoyable/powerful/useful, that also play one. Even though there are a few things that should be looked at, y'all need to chill...
Behold, a list:
Remnants - All undead creatures, piranhas (iirc)
Emerald Jungle - like just about anything that isn't a co'dair or iksar
Field of Bone - see above
Murk - undead iksars and frogloks
Tears of Elael - Yiv (assuming orcs as well...), fucking queen bee
Prophets Landing - Undead (minus the "raid" content, lol)
Dreadlands - a failed iksar child(s), a giant ice devourer (for real though, these things were cake to kill at tier 6-7 when I started Refuge quests... when I had someone else soaking the dmg because it summons), I believe the Nazdrich do not summon, but if they do that is also dumb.
If we want to look out to the 'older' content....
Western Wastes - certain not-named wyrms and ice devourers, possibly wyverns? can't remember, didn't kill them often
Starfall - if you do not consider the underwater path beneath the MoP portal, all of those summon
Behold, a list:
Remnants - All undead creatures, piranhas (iirc)
Emerald Jungle - like just about anything that isn't a co'dair or iksar
Field of Bone - see above
Murk - undead iksars and frogloks
Tears of Elael - Yiv (assuming orcs as well...), fucking queen bee
Prophets Landing - Undead (minus the "raid" content, lol)
Dreadlands - a failed iksar child(s), a giant ice devourer (for real though, these things were cake to kill at tier 6-7 when I started Refuge quests... when I had someone else soaking the dmg because it summons), I believe the Nazdrich do not summon, but if they do that is also dumb.
If we want to look out to the 'older' content....
Western Wastes - certain not-named wyrms and ice devourers, possibly wyverns? can't remember, didn't kill them often
Starfall - if you do not consider the underwater path beneath the MoP portal, all of those summon
Thade
DINOSAUR THADE
There's a bunch of reasons people shit on necromancers, but its mostly because at the high tiers they aren't very good.
If you split the game down into solo(this includes duoing via boxing)/group/raid, and those further into low/mid/high tier necros look like this:
Solo:
Low Tier: A+
mid tier: C+
high tier: D+
Group:
Low Tier: A+
Mid Tier: A+
High Tier: B-
Raid:
Low Tier: A+
Mid Tier: A+
High tier: D
Necros are absolutely insane to the point of almost being broken while tiering up in the game. At high tiers, soloing becomes duoing 90% of the time . Necros can't tank and provide minimal healing. You can't do the most rewarding/lucrative duo spots with a necro for the most part, meaning they aren't great.
In a group, necros are great at low tiers because they have better mana than all the other casters. At high tiers they only have better than mages really, and offer little aoe which is what grouping is all about at the current point. But they do provide mana to your group, which is nice for reducing downtime, so they're not completely horrible.
As far as raiding goes, necros have insane mana pools dps output at low tiers, everyone else will be 0ut of mana and necros will still be pumping out dots. However, at high tiers necros have the worst scaling of any of the casters. Elemental damage does very little for them because their damage is divided among five elements and most of those dots are only being cast 1-2 times a minute. They have little ability to target swap because of long cast times, are bad at killing priority targets because they lack burst damage (something that the high tier fights are all about), and have the worst mana regen of all the int casters because their mana regen tome is much worse than the other casters. They also benefit the least from getting new spells (because their damage is split across 5-6 different spells, getting an upgrade on one dot is much worse than getting an upgrade on a wizard who primarily casts one spell , and still considerably worse than getting an upgrade on a mage who only casts 2-3 spells.)
Overall casters are kinda bad at the moment (Well except enchanters. Fuck enchanters) , and the necros mechanics (slow spells, no burst damage, poor mana regen) make them the worst of all.
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Tevinter
Dalayan Pious Diety
most dungeon mobs could be changed to not summon and I don't think you'd see people going in and kiting bloodfires in FR for instance. Summoning in dungeons is pretty annoying when you go to pull and a mob touches you and is instantly put into summoning range. This wouldn't be a big deal but when the best exp in the game involves pulling 20+ mobs in kaesora at a time it gets old pretty quick.
Tevinter
Dalayan Pious Diety
their damage plateaus at t12/t13 and they lack strong upfront damage and lack burn damage. a lot of classes get better relative to necros as raid DPS increases too, because a lot of classes benefit more from shorter fight times, both in terms of mana sustain and the fact that their burn phase takes up a larger % of the fight time. Wizards on 4.3 for example, used to have to moon comet throughout most of the fight and be relatively conservative, now you can just flash flame the whole fight and still finish with a bunch of mana left. Necro utility just isn't able to be used in a majority of fights or simply isn't needed in a lot of fights either. Also a lot of the time they aren't worth bringing over a wizard because they are either unable to do fight mechanics or do them incredibly poorly. They really aren't that great of an exp group/6man class for the most part as well.
classes that lack frontloaded or high on demand damage will typically just be worse than those that do for the most part, same thing with classes that can AE well vs classes that can't. this is a discussion for another thread though =p
Pretty sure some of the co'dair summon, maybe just the red ones?
Stopped going to most ikisith zones long ago simply because too many things summoned to make it worth it solo, and as far as duo goes there was/is still better options for me.
Wouldnt hurt to have more options to kite. I've solo exped in ToE before which had really good exp but with so much of it summoning made it not very effective.
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The other big issue with summoning mobs is snare. I can't count the number of times tanks have told me not snare because they get this ping pong effect as different mobs summon them that are spread out by the snare. which is unfortunate since bards best aoe slow does a snare as well. Though this is more just how poorly implemented summoning is.
Tevinter
Dalayan Pious Diety
mobs also summon regardless of HP as soon as they're snared/rooted iirc
Tparim
Dalayan Adventurer
Pretty sure mobs only start summoning after they reach 98% life. (This does not count for boss encounter's that auto summon on engage) What I think I have noticed over the many times I have died from mobs chain summoning when I'm trying to make a run to a zone.
Not true, this was a conversation in vent one night listing off various monsters that summon from just ensnare that does no damage. They are few but do exist.Pretty sure mobs only start summoning after they reach 98% life. (This does not count for boss encounter's that auto summon on engage) What I think I have noticed over the many times I have died from mobs chain summoning when I'm trying to make a run to a zone.
Pretty much this, you could probably make the named still summon but I don't think removing summoning on stuff in places like first ruins and kaesora is going to cause a massive kiting problem. It's still going to be more efficient to stack DS on a warrior and plow zones. Hell, you could probably just remove summoning on 90% of non-raid content and not cause issues. It's a lazy overused mechanic that makes pulling on a character stacking DS a nightmare in some zones where it's really easy to get monsters into summoning range and summoned into geometry or a wall.
Stuff like baldakans should probably still summon and harder 6 man zones like tunnels and big OG should too but it'd be nice if I didn't feel obligated to load a tank or a beefy melee to get quest content done on a caster. Or do gimmick groups like ranged only.
Yea, I'm thinking about this. I'm not seeing a compelling argument for a majority of these summoning cases. I'm curious of the intent. The biggest balance issue/hack I could think of is that necro infinite splurt AA that doesn't exist anymore. In general, I can't imagine it being more efficient to do ranged compositions in a lot of these zones, so I don't see the issue offhand in changing this. I will dig more into it.
Tevinter
Dalayan Pious Diety
all-ranged kite groups will never even come close to a traditional set up due to the lack of damage shield and riposte damage, I don't think there is much to worry about.
This to me is probably the worst thing left in the game. Losing fights that you would have otherwise won because someone important is suddenly out of the fight likely permanently due to a glitch is a bummer. Doing something to summoning would help. Then it would probably just be knockbacks that would suck.
When/if a bunch of monsters/zones have summoning removed will we get a detailed update on what zones/monsters were changed and which ones left alone?
So the next patch all mobs we planned to ouch should be in. The list is essentially:
All outdoor zones, dungeons and non-raid zones, + trash for outdoor planar zones for mobs under level 65.
Here's a list of the short names that will be effected next patch:
catacombs citadel crystal cmalath dreadfang eldenals everchill faentharc firegrotto firstruins greatdivide highkeep kaesora kedge labyrinth lasanth mielechb mielechc mielechd misery necropolis rust sunmines undercaverns whisperling wyvernfang yaralith
faentharc paw kaladima kaladimb runnyeye shroudisle sirens warpstone warrens everfrost goblinskull cycgorge heartland shardmtns northwaste southwaste kingpass sbadlands stormsea seaswords sundermtns darkwoods oasis
Also note, there are some mobs that have scripted summoning. If you find a mob (after next patch) that you think shouldn't summon but does let me know. Or if it's a zone that has already been posted in the patch notes as fixed and you think it shouldn't summon but it does, let me know.