Enchanter Spires Class Bracer

Tevinter

Tevinter

Dalayan Pious Diety
Okay, so i logged in and noticed the proc on the bracer changed from Tashanian, to Tashani. The power of this proc was essentially cut in half. The reason this proc was useful was because it gave t11 enchanters another spell slot on their crowded spellbar. Before the nerf, enchanters had a hard enough time with spell bar management. With this nerf, enchanters now have to demem tash at the start of a fight to load something more useful. This does not make the class worse or harder to play, it just makes it really fucking annoying to do.

On a raid, Damp/Striking/Rending curse are MANDATORY to have on your spellbar for 99% of the fights in the game, leaving enchanters with effectively 5 spell slots, and in these slots you want to fit
AoD
GoG
Vex
Misery
Runic2
Memblur
Rune
Raidrune
Slow
Cripple
Archaic Mez
Relic Mez
Unmaking Curse
13 spells, to 5 spell gems. Enchanters already played the spellbar mini game before, but now that they have to load tashanian, they have 4 "flexible" spell gems.

I really hope this was some sort of mistake. If the proc cannot be returned to its original state, i feel like a fair tradeoff would be if the proc drained 5-30 mana on detrimental cast(The cost of Tashanian, the original proc, is 40 mana.) If the bracer was made into a 1.0 second cast time Tashanian clicky, it would be appropriate, as you still have to cast the spell.

I am interested in hearing thoughts on this, and whether or not im just being dumb/bad/missing something obvious
 
Would like to chime in to say that the above spell slot stuff was what the proc was intended for in the first place.

Furthermore, it's worth noting that Tashanian 1) is unresistable, 2) casts quite fast, and 3) costs basically no mana for someone high enough tier to get this item. All this makes tash the most utterly perfunctory spell in the game, in my opinion. You always want it, but you know it's always going to land, and actually casting it is a completely brainless blip. If anything, having it as a proc adds a level of decision-making to it, as now you have to decide on a spell to pair it up with, which will ultimately increase the amount of initial aggro you'll get from using it.

I'm also curious what the reasoning for the change was. Would also support making it a clicky if that is more palatable.
 
Whether or not tash is a stupid spell can be argued, but making it a proc on a bracer at 100% cast makes no bracer an upgrade to that bracer without the exact same proc. It saves crucial start fight time, a spell gem (which as you said is huge), and basically makes every spell you cast less resistable, and does the same for the raid. I think if we have learned anything recently it is that things that are "utterly perfunctory" can not be fixed with items without running into thaz syndrome. And in this case it is thaz syndrome with a twist - this bracer was randomly made 100% drop rate off of a singular mob, meaning every fashionable enchanter alt in town was able to get one before it was taken back to a reasonable, less assured, drop.

Who would give up that proc for 100 more mana? 200? 300? 500? 1000? What bracer without that proc would be worth equipping over it? Even if a bracer had 1500 more hp and mana, you would still equip that bracer at the beginning of every fight if the fight had any sort of time/mez pressure.

If we want to talk about enchanter spell slots it is an entirely different conversation. If tash is really that much a waste of space, then perhaps it should be changed or removed completely. I am all for talking about spell slots if they really are the misery of enchanters everywhere - but an item is simply not the place to correct that problem given that items need to be upgradable. I am also sure that a lot of classes are enviable that there are so many extremely powerful enchanter spells that the biggest constraint on enchanter power is them not being able to fit them all on the bar.

Making the item a clicky would help make upgrades realistic - and is a change I might be open to, but would still make the bracer absolutely irreplaceable and nearly mandatory. A lesser evil to be sure, but still not something we want very often.

I thought the balance of "This is a really magic resist intensive fight - I should use real tash" versus "I need to save time, a lesser tash is worth the time/spells saves" struck a good balance.
 
Waldoff said:
Making the item a clicky would help make upgrades realistic - and is a change I might be open to, but would still make the bracer absolutely irreplaceable and nearly mandatory. A lesser evil to be sure, but still not something we want very often.
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Perhaps the bracer could be turned into a reusable, wrist-only aug with just the proc. That would open the door to a whole world of complicated balancing, though. And would be irreplaceable still, if in a less overtly slot-hogging way.

<Put daydream about a game where every item could be turned into an aug and mixed and matched into every other item here>

Yeah...
 
Tangentially on topic (and not trying to change the subject): Does anyone use Catatonia? Maybe we can bump the Enchanter Artifact multi-curse down a level.
 
Waldoff said:
Tangentially on topic (and not trying to change the subject): Does anyone use Catatonia? Maybe we can bump the Enchanter Artifact multi-curse down a level.
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I personally dont have the spell, but thats because it really doesnt seem good enough to be worth the effort to get it, if that says anything about how good the spell is.

If you are considering making the item a clicky, the clicky could always have an effect that drains mana (50-75? not sure on a number) from the enchanter so it isnt free. I mean, at the tier you get the bracer, you regen the cost of the spell in 1 tic anyways, so the mana cost is negligible.

Id like to hear some ideas from others before i continue my ramblings
 
Zaela said:
Perhaps the bracer could be turned into a reusable, wrist-only aug with just the proc.
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I just saw this, and think its a super cool idea, it could be made into a quest. You could talk to a dude in Dreadlands, and he tells you he can place the enchantment of the bracer onto a special kaezulian rune. The rune could come from the next ikisith raid zone, and you could combine it with various other pieces that come from ikisith exp zones to make the wrist only aug with the proc.
 
I use catatonia a lot and am pretty sure it's saved lives before. Or, if nothing else, I got the aggro that saved a healer that in turn could heal someone else ^^ But when in doubt which spells to mem, I'd still leave this one out.

As an enchanter I think I'll just continue using the bracer, because swapping in more than one item (the cripple wand) at the start of the fight could make you miss emotes and not move when you have to etc., and I'll just mem tash on those rare super-mr fights. Not to mention missing the casts of mod rods or cleric beads because of it is SUPER annoying.

I often debuff at start and try to mem different spells for the duration of the fight, but more often than not AEs or continuous moving prevent me from doing that. And dememming even more spells.. maybe it's just not worth all the hassle to be potentially 5% more efficient?

But if I could choose, I'd love to go through a quest to turn it into an aug with a proc/clicky like Zaela suggested.
 
If it is really that big of an issue why not reduce the proc rate from 100% to 10% per 100 mana or w/e you feel is appropriate.
 
Moraelintz said:
If it is really that big of an issue why not reduce the proc rate from 100% to 10% per 100 mana or w/e you feel is appropriate.
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I think (and chanters can correct me if wrong) that this would be a bigger nerf. What makes it good is the reliability. I know if I was an enchanter I would rather half a tash always rather than a full tash a percentage of the time. That lets you make a conscious decision whether or not a fight warrants the other half, versus always having to have tash up for bad luck or going without tash altogether.
 
Tevinter said:
I just saw this, and think its a super cool idea, it could be made into a quest. You could talk to a dude in Dreadlands, and he tells you he can place the enchantment of the bracer onto a special kaezulian rune. The rune could come from the next ikisith raid zone, and you could combine it with various other pieces that come from ikisith exp zones to make the wrist only aug with the proc.
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You did the work to get the bracer already, why make it harder then that?

Go to DL, speak with someone (The Old One, why not). He notices your bracer, has some story to tell about how it reminds me of something about something. Finally he says if you give it to him he will give you the aug with just the proc.

No need to make an item that was hard (at one time more then others) to obtain even harder to make as useful as it was.
 
To be fair getting that bracer has always been super easy compared to the rest of the bosses in that zone until recently. It is easy to scrub in an alt which is why everyone with an enchanter alt in a guild that could kill the mob has a bracer.

Really I believe that any 100% proc rate item is going to be innately overpowered just because of that. What bracer would anyone use over the enchanter bracer? It is just one of those items that would only ever be replaced by something similar. Even if the tier 14 bracer or whatever is way better, enchanters will be required to have this bracer so they can equip it at the beginning of the fight.
 
Enchanters do have an open third class tome...

Tash the Planet // Tashing Out Rights (for some reason I can't stop thinking about the movie Hackers)

This third class tome could be 25% / 50% / 75% / 100% to proc a MR debuff that doesn't stack with the best tash or could just be the best tash spell.

Another way the tome could work is just a flat 100% to proc from the start and each rank just makes the MR debuff stronger.

I feel enchanters need the open spell gem slot the most around the time they are getting Runic 1 and Runic 2. This is normally around the time people are doing class tomes so it should work well together.

This class tome could keep this very awesome idea still in the game without forcing enchanters to always have to use the same bracer.

Edit: Combining SB and AoD into one spell might also be something to look into.
 
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I hate this idea solely on the basis I didn't come up with the name. It looks good, and I'm sick with jealousy from not having it myself.
 
I really dont like the idea of combining AoD and GoG into one spell, they handle differently and have alot of uses individually. Adding more clickys like the Cripple wand from hatesfuryb for maybe vex and/or unmaking curse would pretty cool
 
Tevinter said:
I really dont like the idea of combining AoD and GoG into one spell, they handle differently and have alot of uses individually.l
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Perhaps you lack the understanding of what "combining" means.

Spell: Runic: Avatar of Destruction
450 mana to:
Slot 4: Increase CHA by 35
Slot 8: Illusion: Unknown(127)

Spell: Somatic Bond
350 mana to:
Slot 2: Add Weapon Proc: Greater Tearing
Slot 5: Increase ATK by 699
Slot 6: Decrease Aggro by 25%
Slot 8: Illusion: Unknown(127)

Is the way both of the Spells look today. Spell: Somatic Bond is simply a drop able 65 spell where as Spell: Runic: Avatar of Destruction is Enchanters First Runic.

With simple logic Spell: Runic: Avatar of Destruction could just have all of Spell: Somatic Bond benefits added to it, making some a bit better since it costs the enchanter 100 more mana to use.

The spell would look something like this:

Spell: Runic: Avatar of Destruction
450 mana to:
Slot 2: Add Weapon Proc: Greater Tearing
Slot 4: Increase CHA by 35
Slot 5: Increase ATK by 800 (This is the most logical number to increase to make up for the 100 more mana used to cast this spell on a melee)
Slot 6: Decrease Aggro by 25%
Slot 8: Illusion: Unknown(127)

If this change was to happen currently then Spell: Somatic Bond would no longer be needed to be used and take up a spell gem.

Why would any enchanter NOT want this to happen?
 
We could discuss whatever possible increase to the attack, but essentially Kedrin posted what I would've said (but better).
 
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