Enchanter curse change

D

Dynia

Dalayan Beginner
The change in enchanter curse spells (from 2 ticks to 1 and the 1 minute mob recast) seems a bit extreme. While I understand why it was changed, I don’t think that both changes were necessary. Is it possible to look over the data again and maybe make it one change or the other? This way it takes away some of the power yet still maintains some of it’s previous usefulness.

Thanks
 
If I understand correctly, the old melee curse used to go until 2 ticks passed, so if it landed halfway through one tick, it would last 9 seconds. The new one, if landing halfway through a tick, would only last 3 seconds. I didnt have time to test this myself, but this was my understanding of waht wizzy was saying in irc(forgive me if Im wrong). So the max duration of old melee curse was ~12 seconds lets say, and the max duration of the new one is ~6, but this isnt really the true story, since the min duration used to be ~6 and is now ~0. The average case would be ~9 to ~3, so 1/3rd the duration it used to be.

With the 1 minute limit on how often you can cast these curses, it sounds to me that it would be a hard argument to say that these are way overpowered. They might double damage for 9 seconds in a fight on melee only, with a max of only doing that once every minute on a mob, and only once ever 15 minutes total between mobs. Also this would leave the curses to be usable in xp groups.


Anyway, the curse changes arent that big a deal in the end, its not like people were killing mobs only because of curses and now we cant do them. Its just that they were before a reason for highend guilds to recruit enchanters. Enchanters without curses turn into what they are on Live, glorified buff bitches where you only need one a raid.
 
Enchanters with the previous curses had higher raid DPS than Wizards.

That's hardly balanced.
 
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How are you getting that because we cast a spell crit curse, that we have higher dps than a wizard? we may allow more dps for the whole raid, but as far as the enc goes; dps and enchanter dont go in the same sentence.
 
The difference is fairly irrelevant. The fact is, adding an enchanter gives you buffs and more DPS than adding a wizard.

The equivalent would be giving SKs rogue DPS on raid mobs, no matter how many :rolleyes: Duma manages to add to the discussion.
 
Wiz said:
Enchanters with the previous curses had higher raid DPS than Wizards.

That's hardly balanced.
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I wasn't trying to suggest that the previous state was balanced. That is why I said that I understood why it was changed. My suggestion was to look at each of the changes individually and see if one of them, instead of both, would be sufficient in getting the result you were looking for. Khalid expanded on this by detailing what each change entailed (as he understands it.)

I think that one of these changes would solve the issue at hand but putting them both together is going a little further to the other extreme.
 
Trig said:
buff bitch ahoy!

thanks for the nerf, we were all asking for it
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You're hardly a buff bitch now. The spells weren't removed, and you STILL do more than enchanters did on raids on live.
 
well, last two raids all I did was buff, nuke, deagro
if I cursed it would not take hold, unless I happened to curse first, then other enc's didn't take hold

so pretty much same as on live, buff bitch with an odd nuke thrown in (just so I don't have fm)

if you're gonna add this stupid 1 min recast, with no way of knowing when its refreshed, at least you could make the spell bounce when it doesn't take hold instead of wasting the spell
 
Trig said:
if you're gonna add this stupid 1 min recast, with no way of knowing when its refreshed, at least you could make the spell bounce when it doesn't take hold instead of wasting the spell
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...timing it is not that hard.
 
You should try www.progressquest.com. It's a great piece of satire on why sometimes you have to time things yourself, and why you aren't given all sorts of information. Would clerics also like a CH chain command, so they don't have to click CH every X seconds too?

Just be glad you don't play a bard. I can't tell when my songs wear off on mobs. Too much group wear off message spam from my group. :p
 
And the party will get probably 5x the number of crits in a full fight than they will in a 3sec melee curse.

Seriously the 1 minute reuse on a mob has to go. That isnt addressing the complaint "1 enchanter adds more to a raid than 1 wizard". That is indirectly limiting the amount of enchanters that are worthwhile bringing to a raid. No raid fight that I have been in yet has ever taken more than 3 minutes and if you time it perfectly that means only 3 curses will be used so the math tells you no more than 3 enchanters will actually be useful.


That isnt ballancing "vs the individual", that's nerfing a whole class.
 
Duma's right--there has to be a better way to go about things. Wiz, you're absolutely justified in nerfing the curses; there's no way that enchanters should out-dps Wizards on raid mobs under any scenario. However, adding the long recast has the side effect of putting a cap on not just the damage one enchanter can do, but also on the number of enchanters that can use the curses.

The curses need to be fixed another way, whether if it's by increasing chance to crit by only a percentage instead of making it certain, making the duration a fixed three seconds or something like that, or any other of the ideas that have been mentioned, but the recast cap really needs to go. I'm all for balancing the classes, but let's not superimpose artificial caps on the number of enchanters that are really and truly useful on a raid.
 
The 1 minute reuse is the issue for rending curse. I can remove it from striking, at least... but having the mob chain-rended through the entire fight was kind of heh.
 
Now that curse can't be chained on mobs, will you be considering lowering the recast time on curses to balance out the nerf?
 
Quite awhile ago, the timers for Rending and Striking were upped to ten minutes. This was justified as a balance issue. Granted at the time, there was less the 3 enchanters on the entire server high enough to cast them. If Rending curse is becomeing that much of an issue then I understand the need for a timer, much like mana burn on live was. Given enough enchanters you could keep both curses up the entire fight on a mob. However, please do not put sapping on the same "timer" so that the other two will not stack. Even during the upping of refresh timers, sapping was left alone, this at least made it something useable by two enchanters on trash mobs. As with all things, we will have to adapt to the change. However, if you are going to keep this new immunity, then please return the timers to what they once were. on par with sapping's

However, one thing I will never buy is that enchanters are out damaging a wizard for dps. It isn't until 61st level that we get a spell that does around 900 dmg, and it's not someone gets Relic CV that our DDs reach 1k. Granted with dmg incr they can go up, with level III my DDs are 1250 and 1010. However, as with all of our spells they are all magic based. Alot of mobs even wtih tash resist our magic based where wizards have lures and a variety of dmg types. Don't' read into this that I'm trying to get enchanters with better DDs. I know full well that enchanters are not supposed to be main damage, we deal with manipulation. Increase party abilities, decrease a mobs. Our curses allow for others to do double dmg, both melee and spell.
 
Chamelion said:
However, one thing I will never buy is that enchanters are out damaging a wizard for dps. It isn't until 61st level that we get a spell that does around 900 dmg, and it's not someone gets Relic CV that our DDs reach 1k. Granted with dmg incr they can go up, with level III my DDs are 1250 and 1010. However, as with all of our spells they are all magic based. Alot of mobs even wtih tash resist our magic based where wizards have lures and a variety of dmg types. Don't' read into this that I'm trying to get enchanters with better DDs. I know full well that enchanters are not supposed to be main damage, we deal with manipulation. Increase party abilities, decrease a mobs. Our curses allow for others to do double dmg, both melee and spell.
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I think what he means by encs having greater dps is:
18 melee chars with 120 dps as average. Then for 6 seconds, you increase the dps to 240. And then he counts the 120 * 18 * 6 for enc dps (that's on melee curse), and that would add up to a whole lot more than wizards do, I think. :roll:
 
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