Draconic/Stormforged armor quests (NOT ornate)

phroggonalog

phroggonalog

Dalayan Master
The rewards for the armor quests prior to the ornate quests are not good. The plat obtained while finding stones and armor pieces for required for the quest is enough to buy better armor with less hassle...

The best argument I've heard is that the first armor quests were meant as a precursor to the ornate, and then combine; in a sense, these aren't separate quests, but just separate steps. HOWEVER, I disagree with this, mostly because the faction required for normal draconic/stormforged armor is amiable, while ally is required for ornate. To get from amiable to ally is not a feat for the same casual group of 50's who could do the first quest at amiable.

In any case, I think that the draconic/stormforged rewards should be beefed just a tad, as should the wyvernfang armor rewards for similar reasons. however, I don't have specifics; which is why I'm posting this in discussion, to see what other people think.

thoughts?
 
They are steps because it takes one to get to the next. That is also why it makes sense that the people who can manage the first step might not able to easily handle the second. Getting ally isn't even the hard part of obtaining ornate, it's just time consuming.
 
Steps they may be -- but if that's ALL it is, then why bother with usable armor for step 1? Who's going to wear it? Why not make step 1 the step for making focus stones, or something to put into the armor of step 2, resulting in ornate forged that *some* will wear.

If the armor wasn't intended by the quest dev. to be worn, then okay --- I understand. However, wyvernfang armor suffers from the same problem, and *that* has no upgrade. Being a similar quest with the same problem, I think both quests need looking at in terms of reward -- wyvernfang for end reward, and draconic/stormforged for intermediate reward. There's no need to improve the D/S armor to the point where 65+ would wear it, because for them it IS just a step before ornate and combine, and a fairly risk-free step as well. However, when players in the mid-high 50's do this quest, it's a different story.
 
These pieces of armor far outdate the (imho) overpowered tradeskill items you can get now, it just seems they never got any type of loving since then. I am all for adding even any stats to round out the dull first tier. Even ornate stats are kind of meh.



As for wyvernfang gear, no way. You can do that at level oneand be pretty pimp.
 
Wyvernfang is dropable and can be done at lvl 1, its fine.

For ornate, most people just make the BP and Legs for the clickies. You will most likely have way better gear than ornate when you are able to farm the gems for ornate. I don't know anyone that wears the first tier armor. I agree that the armor is underpowered, lots of items are unbalanced at the early 65 tier.

A few examples:
Traek/Pounders Loot (lvl 57) > Tier 1/2 Raid mobloot (lvl 65)
Trade Skill Armor > Tier1/2 and some 3/4 Raid loot
No 1hand monk upgrades over bare fists till tier 3/4
Cmal3 drops are rot cept gloves, etc.
 
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All of the stuff cited falls int he old items category. When new things are released, old things become obsolete. I like to think that the dungeon revamps that have been done will eventually help smooth the progression out a bit so that old fits in more with the new. I really do not think that it is item X is overpowered, god knows enough stuff has been nerfed. I think it is a matter of bringing old items into line with the new progression line so that they have merit again.
 
I fully agree with the above poster - my druid could probably use better gear, and draconic *would* help, except the stats on it seem to be not that much better than wyvernfang. I could easily farm better gear than draconic/stormforged with my dru/pal box so it's just not worth it to pursue the quests for these drops.
 
dongsy said:
As for wyvernfang gear, no way. You can do that at level oneand be pretty pimp.
Click to expand...

Renshu said:
Wyvernfang is dropable and can be done at lvl 1, its fine.
Click to expand...


*Theoretically* Wyvernfang can be done at level 1- but 99% of the time it won't be done. Why? Here are some scenarios (applying not only to level 1, but for levels 1-25):

A) The character who could potentially get Wyvernfang armor is new to SoD. This person does not know about the Wiki. This person has not heard of the Wyvernfang zone, let alone has any idea how to get there or find the correct Othmir to learn about Wyvernfang. This character will not, therefore, obtain the armor.

B) The new player ends up hearing about Wyvernfang armor in DB; now he's interested in getting some. But how? Until >=20, the only way to get the armor will be to buy molds and sheets/links/straps/silk. These are never auctioned in /auc, and the vendors who keep them in their listsold are few; none of them have a diverse selection of molds. Therefore, the new player still doesn't get (much) wyvernfang, because by the time he finds enough pieces on /listsold to equip himself with, he's already exped to the point where he can farm the pieces himself, and THEN he has enough plat to buy better armor.

C) The player has played for a little while at least, and has a mid level main to farm pieces for his new level 1 <class>. Or, what's more likely, he's given rots from higher level players he's met /slash has the plat to buy better stuff

D) Vet player with a 65 main starts a new character. He won't gear him in wyvernfang armor.

Basically, my argument is that the players who would be interested in Wyvernfang either don't have knowledge of the quest and/or don't have the supply to buy it...OR the quest is simply too far removed. Maybe instead of beefing the rewards for the armor, why not add an npc in Newport directing new players to the Othmir in Wyvernfang, and allow pieces to drop in lower level dungeons aka BB and Warrens?

EDIT: Perhaps this solution would work for draconic/stormforged armor as well. Also, with some of the pieces it doesn't seem like beefing is even necessary, so much as tweaking is (i.e. no +hp on a platemail draconic/storm cloak, but +35hp on the chainmail?)
 
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My first week on SoD I learned and quested wyvernfang armor. It's not hard at all to find the info (even in the very old wiki) and get to wyvernfang (before portals and mansion)
 
iaeolan said:
My first week on SoD I learned and quested wyvernfang armor. It's not hard at all to find the info (even in the very old wiki) and get to wyvernfang (before portals and mansion)
Click to expand...

Agreeing with iae, this thread isnt about wyvernfang but for the record its not like people DO NOT ask this in dalayas beginners everyday:
"Where can a LEVEL X ____ get some armor for a newbie"

There are plenty of people willing to explain what wyvernfang is etc. The only reason things are hard is because your character is antisocial and or unable to read.
As for the armor itself, I dont think any of the pieces are exceptionally bad (okay maybe a few)
But then again the quest itself is really just doing the turn in. You do not need faction you just need to acquire 2 items and go give them to an otter.

Surely anyone can ask for a port, and anyone in blackburrow can get the 10pp or so it would take to buy the 2 pieces from listsold.




But when you look at the dragon/giant first tier its somewhat junk that most people can buy significantly better then for the time it will take to farm the armor pieces and then work on the amiable faction.

:(
 
iaeolan said:
My first week on SoD I learned and quested wyvernfang armor. It's not hard at all to find the info (even in the very old wiki) and get to wyvernfang (before portals and mansion)
Click to expand...

TBH iae, you're an exception. Don't you have the most posts out of anyone besides GMs and devs? It says something about your character...*you* might have found it easy to find info, *I* may have found it easy to gear off of adepts and completely skip wyvernfang, but how many new players are the same way? In any case, I still stand by my argument.

EDIT: alright, I'm in the minority in thinking it's hard for newbies to gear up on wyvernfang armor b/c lack of knowledge. I still don't see many with wyvernfang armor, but w/e.

/agree with Dongsy though on the draconic/stormforged, it's 100% true.
 
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Renshu said:
Wyvernfang is dropable and can be done at lvl 1, its fine.

For ornate, most people just make the BP and Legs for the clickies. You will most likely have way better gear than ornate when you are able to farm the gems for ornate. I don't know anyone that wears the first tier armor. I agree that the armor is underpowered, lots of items are unbalanced at the early 65 tier.

A few examples:
Traek/Pounders Loot (lvl 57) > Tier 1/2 Raid mobloot (lvl 65)
Trade Skill Armor > Tier1/2 and some 3/4 Raid loot
No 1hand monk upgrades over bare fists till tier 3/4
Cmal3 drops are rot cept gloves, etc.
Click to expand...

You contradict yourself however.

Cmal3 drops monk fist weapon better than fists.
Also on tier 1 you may find gloves with bane dmg on them making them better at instances.
Tier three also has a weapon but wait oh well
 
ryutakin said:
You contradict yourself however.

Cmal3 drops monk fist weapon better than fists.
Also on tier 1 you may find gloves with bane dmg on them making them better at instances.
Tier three also has a weapon but wait oh well
Click to expand...

Taskmaster's Bloody Knuckles
MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO DROP
Slot: PRIMARY SECONDARY
Skill: Hand to Hand Atk Delay: 29
DMG: 19
Fire DMG: 4
STR: +5 DEX: +10 WIS: +8 HP: +35
WT: 1.5 Size: MEDIUM
Class: MNK BST
Race: ALL

Bloody Knuckles (even assuming that the fire dmg lands full every time) - .793 ratio
Bare fists - .722 ratio
Bare fists /w +2 bane dmg gloves (even found on monk starfall) - .833 ratio

Bare fists /w bane dmg gloves > Cmal weapon thing Furthermore, you're counting on 4 band dmg on the taskmaster weapon vs 2 bane dmg on the bare fists with gloves.

ryutakin said:
Tier three also has a weapon but wait oh well
Click to expand...

Renshu said:
No 1hand monk upgrades over bare fists till tier 3/4
Click to expand...
 
I'm not sure if external elemental damage on gloves is treated the same way as external bane damage and scaled to 25 delay, but even if it is you get +1.44 damage from your gloves which gives you a ratio of .80222...

I don't really see missing monk weapons as a particularly bad itemization problem because monk fist still stack up well against weapon opions available to other DPS classes.
 
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Renshu said:
Taskmaster's Bloody Knuckles
MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO DROP
Slot: PRIMARY SECONDARY
Skill: Hand to Hand Atk Delay: 29
DMG: 19
Fire DMG: 4
STR: +5 DEX: +10 WIS: +8 HP: +35
WT: 1.5 Size: MEDIUM
Class: MNK BST
Race: ALL

Bloody Knuckles (even assuming that the fire dmg lands full every time) - .793 ratio
Bare fists - .722 ratio
Bare fists /w +2 bane dmg gloves (even found on monk starfall) - .833 ratio

Bare fists /w bane dmg gloves > Cmal weapon thing Furthermore, you're counting on 4 band dmg on the taskmaster weapon vs 2 bane dmg on the bare fists with gloves.
Click to expand...

There is another bare fist weapon that's a different and better ratio. I wasn't even thinking of those knuckles
 
There's a weapon from Summoner, but typically by the time you kill him you have equal or better to what he offers.

*edit* In regards to monk weapons. Or at least, that's how it was for my monk.
 
Yeah Blackfist of Malath

He's not that hard. Tier 2 group can do it if they try but I haven't fought him in forever

Either way pretty sure he's still cmal3
 
This may not be a specific suggestion thread, but it certainly isn't a cmal 3/raid items thread =) please keep on topic if you have something to add

Otherwise...what do people think of beefing draconic/stormforged part I armor vs. only tweaking a few of the armor pieces vs. having quest pieces drop in lower level dungeons?
 
I dont see how new tradeskill items should make it so that old equipment needs to become better. Draconic and stormorged armor was used often enough before smithing and top tailoring was in.

I could easily farm better gear than draconic/stormforged with my dru/pal box so it's just not worth it to pursue the quests for these drops.
Click to expand...

It is simply cause in the end it also yields ornate and combine.

Draconic and Stormforged armor is easy to get and could be considered more of a bonus then a reward. You need to have the faction for other quests anyway and the armor and gems for draconic and stormforged drop in enough places to just pick some up for free. this quest is very fine as it is imo.
 
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