Damage shield in PVP

Jinxat said:
If I am not mistaken than bards have an annul song, and rogues can backstab for insane amounts well over 1k damage per hit. Now yes, I know that rogues abilitiy is only situational, and that bards are limited as well, but bards, if played well, have more utility than any other class in pvp. They can definately get around a damage shield. Drain mana? Dot kite? I realize that these things would take a long time, but damage shields shouldnt really effect bards that much. I am not completely against a lower in DS's in pvp, its just I dont see the point really. Most if not all classes have ways to avoid it. It is part of the game, and part of the classes utility. If people play smart than they can easily avoid the problem.

By the way, most often than not, melees will lose to casters in pvp, unless said melees have good resists and can resist the majority of the casters spells. Thats just how it is. Unless of course it is an inside zone. Anyways bumping damage shields down a bit or keeping them the same wouldnt really effect most of the people anyways, since a very small percentage of the population is pvp.

Jinxat.

I haven't tried meleeing since the change, but I know my max backstab with a 15 (plus 1 poison damage) piercer my max stab so far is 1140 or around that. Now, you get those stabs VERY rarely and they will be less in PvP. Most of my stabs are around 600 or so. Also, how often do you get a back to stab in PvP? Not that often.

As for the matter at hand, I think DS should be reduced. I have a druid and a rogue, so I'm not really biased either way.
 
I've watched rogues on live servers backstab only in pvp very effectively. Unless, like previously stated, the caster backs into a corner, a rogue can run by, hit backstab at just the right moment, and lag and other factors cause the rogue to be considered behind the person and facing them at the same time, even though they are running at each other head to head. This was called jousting from what I remember and was a very effective rogue tool in pvp, not sure if it works on this server, but try it, cause it prolly does.

As far as I can tell, DS's are never a problem in PvP, rogues just have to be creative and have super high resists.
 
To this Malathoos guy:

If you dont like pvp, why even bother to reply on a topic. SoD is not a pvp server and it never will be, you are fine with being a pve'er... and thats good for you. I myself like a good portion of pvp once in a while. Hell i spend 2 years playing on the former live server of Vallon Zek.

As for giving DS' a deathblow in pvp! look at it from my side.

i got 4.3k hp when buffed, a rogue like Yona would hit me 4 times per second on average... how the hell am i gonna kill her if i have no DS and i have to spend most of my time trying to heal myself! my best bet would be to snare/root her, but that's not gonna work since they dont seem to stack in pvp and they drop after like 3 ticks.. (which is lame :censored: )
 
Well, I played on RZ on live for about 4 years, and one thing that was always used was jousting as Puella said. Most of the time the rogue can run at the other person and hit backstab at just the right moment, and be considered behind the other person even if they were facing eachother. This was a tactic used mostly when melees were fighting eachother, but also when casters that had damage shields were fighting melees (except monks/warriors used 2 handed weapons as I stated earlier). Yes I know this isn't live, but you are also forgetting that melees have been given an increase to damage done in pvp, which would probably raise the amount of damage done per backstab. Now, also I believe rogue's have a style that allows them to double all damage they are doing for a short amount of time. Now I know that you cant always use this style, but if you do 600 damage per backstab on average in pvp, and you use this style, you would in turn be doing 1200 damage per backstab. Now, my level 65 druid isn't uber or anything, hes about average. He currently has about 2.2k hp self-buffed, maybe a bit more than that. If you backstab him for 1200 damage, he can heal it relatively quickly, but that means that in the time that he is healing you are most likely hitting him, which leaves room for interuptions as well as your backstab refreshing. You also have to remember that you do have the ability to 1 hit him with a backstab (either your max BS + crit, or your max backstab + style, or max backtsab + style + crit = almost instant death). I also am aware that instead of instantly healing I can snare/root you or do some other tricks to get out of range but I am assuming worst case scenario where people panic.

I honestly don't think that damage shields being as high as they are (I think druid Relic DS is 48 or so? and I doubt most druids probably wouldnt have Relic DS so what is the next highest 38?) is that big of a deal, and there are ways around it. But like I said earlier, its really not that big of a deal, since it wont effect the majority of the people here anyways. I dont really care what happens, I just dont want to see something nerfed for no reason, and because people can't be bothered to work around something.

Toodles, Jinxat.

EDIT: I also forgot to mention chaotic stab. I don't really know how effective this is, but I think it allows rogue's to backstab from any angle. Anyways, there are ways around the "damage shield" issue, and I think that taking away part of the druid's utility would be kinda crippling to the class form a pvp standpoint.

EDIT: I also forgot to add druid's self damage shield line. At level 65 this would add another 20 points to the damage shield according to the spell database (I am not completely sure if this number is right) . Now a 58-68 point damage shield could be considered overpowered, but most of the time I doubt druids would have buffed using both unless they were anticipating pvp (I think I have casted the spell once since I dinged level 65). Never the less, the damage shield could still be somewhat avoided, it would just make the rogue want to make sure that his hits are worth it.
 
I just noticed this thread and I have to ask.... have any of you played on a pvp server, ever?

DSs were sort of a moot point... easily avoided and removed.

Hell, the top pvp scorer while I was playing was lesly, a rogue.

Does dispell not work in pvp much like mana drain? why?
 
As I mentioned in my last post I played on Rallos Zek for about 4 years, in a top tier raiding/pvp guild. So to answer your question, yes.

Jinxat.
 
Puella said:
I've watched rogues on live servers backstab only in pvp very effectively.


Landing backstabs on a smart target here is brain surgery compared to EQlive (Yes, I have extensive experience with both server types)

This is because of 1) Melee range and 2) Somewhat inferior movement packets. (Ever seen someone strafe on SoD? Or tried to melee a randomly moving target?)
 
what guild were you in on rallos jinxat? i was in celestial empire and seekers of divinity for awhile and i think nerfing DS is a bad way to go, rog have high dps and part of that is the disadvantage being susceptabel to DS , its part of the class imo. annul stones would need a long cast/recast of you could just chain click them and it would prolly cause balance problems with pve. i imagine it has a good amount of aggro attatched to it.
 
iaeolan said:
Hell, the top pvp scorer while I was playing was lesly, a rogue.

Lesly wasnt exactly the best example of a person that used fair tactics in pvp. Trains weren't unusual whenever she was around!
 
Jinxat said:
If I am not mistaken than bards have an annul song, and rogues can backstab for insane amounts well over 1k damage per hit. Now yes, I know that rogues abilitiy is only situational, and that bards are limited as well, but bards, if played well, have more utility than any other class in pvp. They can definately get around a damage shield. Drain mana? Dot kite? I realize that these things would take a long time, but damage shields shouldnt really effect bards that much. I am not completely against a lower in DS's in pvp, its just I dont see the point really. Most if not all classes have ways to avoid it. It is part of the game, and part of the classes utility. If people play smart than they can easily avoid the problem.

Warriors don't
Rogues don't, and the backstab argument is bullshit because you have 66% damage and are up against higher AC entities at the high end
Monks don't

That's three classes that are defenseless against DS and who are made useless when it is used. By one single buff type.

Jinxat said:
By the way, most often than not, melees will lose to casters in pvp, unless said melees have good resists and can resist the majority of the casters spells. Thats just how it is. Unless of course it is an inside zone. Anyways bumping damage shields down a bit or keeping them the same wouldnt really effect most of the people anyways, since a very small percentage of the population is pvp.

We intend to balance PvP so that all classes are equal. "That's just how it is" does not compute on this server unless we are physically unable to alter it, like clientside things.

PvP balance will not affect PvE balance.
 
Kaledorm said:
I though he read it correctly. Zodium said in his post:

DS should honestly be outright removed from PVP as it makes dualwielding worthless.

How do you get rid of the DS just for PvP?
The same way that you make spells do 2/3'rd damage, back stab do 2/3'rd damage, etc.

Not a hard concept to implement.
 
Meh, I said before that 2 handed weapons can be used to avoid damage shields. If you are consistently hitting for a significant amount more than the damage shield is doing to you, and you have atleast twice the amount of hitpoints as the caster, than I don't see how it is so out of balance. And even with a medium-high end two handed weapon you can easily be hitting for well over 50 damage per hit which is close to the druids damage shield. Makes sense to me, but you guys run the server. Anyways I know that things would be fine with leaving the damage shields in doing the same amount of damage, but if you want to change it than go ahead, it might be better, or worse.

By the way the class I played on live was a monk, and although some of the people that I would usually fight weren't all that skilled in pvp, most were fairly skilled. I would win most of the fights I was in, even with damage shields. Like I said two handed weapons > damage shields. But if you think my arguments are total bullshit than make this change, since in reality it is not that big of a deal.

Jinxat.
 
Greets,this is my first post and i was planning on starting on this server.This thread however made me curious about some facts so i would love if someone could answer.

When you turn on your pvp flag you cant group/heal/buff affect the non pvp flagged people? I remember nobody ever turned that flag on on live since it would render you useless sorta.

How many are pvp flagged? 0.1% 1% 5% 10% 20% ?

I am from rallos/sullon/pve servers and some pvp fun would be what i was looking for while exploring this new world,thanks in advance.
<3 <3 <3 <3
 
You can still heal/buff a PvP person if you are not PvP.

You can't heal/buff a person that is involved in a duel.

I'd say around 2% of the server (in the higher end anyway) are PvP flagged.
 
Jinxat said:
Meh, I said before that 2 handed weapons can be used to avoid damage shields. If you are consistently hitting for a significant amount more than the damage shield is doing to you, and you have atleast twice the amount of hitpoints as the caster, than I don't see how it is so out of balance. And even with a medium-high end two handed weapon you can easily be hitting for well over 50 damage per hit which is close to the druids damage shield. Makes sense to me, but you guys run the server. Anyways I know that things would be fine with leaving the damage shields in doing the same amount of damage, but if you want to change it than go ahead, it might be better, or worse.

By the way the class I played on live was a monk, and although some of the people that I would usually fight weren't all that skilled in pvp, most were fairly skilled. I would win most of the fights I was in, even with damage shields. Like I said two handed weapons > damage shields. But if you think my arguments are total bullshit than make this change, since in reality it is not that big of a deal.

Jinxat.

Ah, yes. We should limit PvP to two handed weapons. Good call.
 
Cool,then i will just turn in the book for the flag and never worry about it again.Thx :10bux:
 
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