Current SoD
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Cinny
Dalayan Elder
Not only that but where did the falsified illusion of needing a plat sink come in? All it does is create a reason for being anti social. This game has plenty of natural plat sinks without explicitly creating them, Trade skills, Augments for gear, Gearing your adept toon etc.
Then there is tomes in and of themselves, the previously mentioned Refugee augs, And if they really really really wanted they could make the augment have 2 avenues for advancement 1 that uses exp and one that uses plat and getting exp could decrease the cost of plat used so you could use both avenues to advance your charm and still not have a need to exclude people from groups.
Then there is tomes in and of themselves, the previously mentioned Refugee augs, And if they really really really wanted they could make the augment have 2 avenues for advancement 1 that uses exp and one that uses plat and getting exp could decrease the cost of plat used so you could use both avenues to advance your charm and still not have a need to exclude people from groups.
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darksabbath
Dalayan Master
If the present major plat sink (charms) is decided to be a bad, failed design... then why oh why would we bother to replace that with another soon-to-be failed design? As Spock would say, "Captain, that is.. illogical."
Cinny
Dalayan Elder
Ok true most games do consider there to be a need for plat sinks, however i think the trend is to make those plat sink's rather than a requirement to upgrades a visual thing (WoW Transmogging, EQ dye( back when i played Dye and mount were the two plat sinks neither a necessity), Im sure there are others im not thinking of) Why not make a vendor that sold dye for say 5-10k each that were permanent (still making the donation better than the vendor bought cause you dont need to spend money, and just kinda throwing numbers at a wall here as well hoping some are good and stick), once you upgrade that piece you have to spend the money again to re aug re dye and etc not to mention the fact that once you upgrade a piece it may end up making you recolor your entire gear setup to look good.
Make an item that removes this permanent dye for say 50-100 plat each
You could also make a trade skill specific to dying or combine this into brewing and have the majority of the components be vendor bought but very expensive and then have some of the cooler dyes have various materials similar to augments
Implying that charms are a requirement?
There are #1 characters without supremes. There are people raiding Tur'ruj with 225k charms. There are people raiding Spires and Yclist with 100k and 38k charms.
Are they nice to have? Absolutely. Claiming they're a requirement is a bit much, in my opinion.
I really liked how charms are currently done. When the guild I was in died, and I saw my opportunities for progression dwindle, I always had the opportunity to log in and work on making platinum for my charm. Farmed platinum with a group when I could, or solo when no one was on. Farming for my charm brought me back to the game and kept me logging in.
I like the dye / illusion type of thing idea though. Maybe as a post-tome expendable xp sink?
Could be a Tome you complete then turn in for dyes / <insert cool fun expendable thing here>.
Cinny
Dalayan Elder
How many are raiding without charms?
So you are saying EXP should give you cosmetic effects rather than increasing your characters strength/equipment? (P.S. Exp increasing character strength is a fundamental concept such as expable items/leveling/AA's/tomes seems like charms would fit nicely in here)
And money should increase your characters strength rather than give cosmetic fun things? (the only thing i can think of that function like this currently is the charm and trade skilled items)
That sounds exactly backwards because a cosmetic effect will get put on the back burner and deemed less important than increasing my characters strength and leave the current state unchanged where people are ignoring LFG people because they dont want to split the plat they need for their charm fund.
Cinny
Dalayan Elder
Also forgot to comment on this changing charms to be exped instead of money based wouldnt change this at all you can get exp solo/grouped the same as you get money but without the side effect of exp getting lessened because of more people.
Not to mention that then the players who are told they wont get plat when they go to an exp group can still advance their charm.
Like raiding with no charm at all? Got me there. It's been a while since I have raided with people where that would have been a possibility.
Yeah, there are times that platinum will improve your character. Buying spells or songs on the way to 65? Did those not make you stronger?
Yeah, I think that charms work just fine as they are. They are a terrific plat sink. They get people a single slot of gear to upgrade outside of raiding. Guilds can even pool platinum together to get their main tank a better charm if that's what they want to do. I wish there was an exp sink that worked as well.
I still don't know who these people are who are ignoring people lfg when they have spots, are boxing just so they don't have to share platinums, or are telling people they can't have any portion of a split to a group they are helping. They sound like jerks. And I highly doubt that a change in a game mechanic will make them not be jerks.
Totally selfishly, I'd also like something that would make my friends who are completely done with tomes (and 1.2s, obviously) want to come hang out and kill monsters again. On their mains, maybe if that's not too crazy.
I hope charms don't change. But then again, just my opinion.
Yeah, there are times that platinum will improve your character. Buying spells or songs on the way to 65? Did those not make you stronger?
Yeah, I think that charms work just fine as they are. They are a terrific plat sink. They get people a single slot of gear to upgrade outside of raiding. Guilds can even pool platinum together to get their main tank a better charm if that's what they want to do. I wish there was an exp sink that worked as well.
I still don't know who these people are who are ignoring people lfg when they have spots, are boxing just so they don't have to share platinums, or are telling people they can't have any portion of a split to a group they are helping. They sound like jerks. And I highly doubt that a change in a game mechanic will make them not be jerks.
Totally selfishly, I'd also like something that would make my friends who are completely done with tomes (and 1.2s, obviously) want to come hang out and kill monsters again. On their mains, maybe if that's not too crazy.
I hope charms don't change. But then again, just my opinion.
Cinny
Dalayan Elder
I can sight multiple times people not letting people take away plat from a group check out OG/Kaesora most the time there are 2-4 toons there that wont let people get a split if they join or wont let them join at all. Im also not the only person who has sighted this.
Basically at one point or another by anyone who can solo an area with their box or a friend are going to prevent people from joining because of the "plat sink" that is need that makes people spend hours farming plat anti socially. If you dont think this happens read some earlier posts they also state similar things that this needed "plat sink" is causing more and more players to opt away from grouping because they can make the most plat for their time solo and they need this plat to improve their character.
Moraelintz
Dalayan Elder
The problem that I have with this is it is very shortsighted not only by the people doing that but also by it being continually brought up. There are plenty of people out there that make groups and invite random people. In the last 6-10 groups I have been in we have been looking for dps. We ooc and get 0 responses so usually 1 or 2 people box until people become available. The thing about people not inviting others and just solo/duoing is the killrate can go up almost exponentially with a group thus more mobs and more pp.
Cinny
Dalayan Elder
And there was no DPS on the server that were duo'ing or soloing for their charm.......
I for one can say that the kill rate will not increase exponentially because of the simple fact that their are only X number of mobs in Z set of space if i can kill all those mobs that are good for farming platnium before the first one respawns i gain nothing by adding more people.
For example Kaesora library most people can box or kill the entire library side with themselves and their box (or a friend) they gain nothing by adding 1 more person. The money will be better here than in a group that heads to BQ for 2 hours and calls it quits. Because you have to split that BQ plat to 3-6 ppl where as the Kaesora plat will go to 1-2 people.
Cinny
Dalayan Elder
A way to mitigate this would be to increase the loot and plat for mobs that have 4+ people on the agro list if they have 5-6 people make them drop 3x the plat and items they would if they had 1-4. anything less than 3x plat and the math comes out in favor of either soloing (with a box) or you and your friend dual boxing.
Math:
2ppl in group - minimum 1 IRL person
3-4 ppl in group - minimum 2 IRL person
5-6 ppl in group - minimum 3 IRL person
if im killing in an area i can do with myself then bringing friend 1 costs me 50% the plat and bringing friend 2 costs me 66.67% the plat
if the plat dropped increase 2x for bringing friend 1 i would do it because i dont loose anything and i gain social atmosphere.
if the plat dropped increase 3x for bringing friend 2 i would do it because i dont loose anything and i gain social atmosphere.
If im killing in an area me and friend can do togethere but i cant solo bringing friend 1 enables me to kill the area bringing friend 2 costs me 33.33% ( he will take 1/3 my plat and 1/3 my friends plat so we all have 2/3 of the original plat each person was generating) so if the area increased in plat in this instance by a factor of 1.5 i would bring friend 2 for social atmosphere and losing nothing.
if i make 1000 plat per hour and friend 2 comes i go down to make 666.6 plat per hour however if when friend 2 comes the overall plat increased by a factor of 1.5 i would make 1500x2/3 = 1000 plat.
Granted this only applies to places where you can kill the things fast enough without a full group (so basically kaesora and a few others this wouldnt really apply to something like BQ/cita where there are few if any characters that can keep the entire area dead with less than 6 people)
Keep in mind this entire post only looks at up to 3 people when in actuality the goal should be to get them unboxed in which case you go up to 6 people.
And the expable charm that doesnt equal a supreme charm gets you right back to people anti socially farming for a supreme anyway.
Math:
2ppl in group - minimum 1 IRL person
3-4 ppl in group - minimum 2 IRL person
5-6 ppl in group - minimum 3 IRL person
if im killing in an area i can do with myself then bringing friend 1 costs me 50% the plat and bringing friend 2 costs me 66.67% the plat
if the plat dropped increase 2x for bringing friend 1 i would do it because i dont loose anything and i gain social atmosphere.
if the plat dropped increase 3x for bringing friend 2 i would do it because i dont loose anything and i gain social atmosphere.
If im killing in an area me and friend can do togethere but i cant solo bringing friend 1 enables me to kill the area bringing friend 2 costs me 33.33% ( he will take 1/3 my plat and 1/3 my friends plat so we all have 2/3 of the original plat each person was generating) so if the area increased in plat in this instance by a factor of 1.5 i would bring friend 2 for social atmosphere and losing nothing.
if i make 1000 plat per hour and friend 2 comes i go down to make 666.6 plat per hour however if when friend 2 comes the overall plat increased by a factor of 1.5 i would make 1500x2/3 = 1000 plat.
Granted this only applies to places where you can kill the things fast enough without a full group (so basically kaesora and a few others this wouldnt really apply to something like BQ/cita where there are few if any characters that can keep the entire area dead with less than 6 people)
Keep in mind this entire post only looks at up to 3 people when in actuality the goal should be to get them unboxed in which case you go up to 6 people.
And the expable charm that doesnt equal a supreme charm gets you right back to people anti socially farming for a supreme anyway.
Moraelintz
Dalayan Elder
The flaw in your arguement is that you are planning on running out of mobs. For instance if you run out of library mobs then pull to the harder basement side and come back this increasing the total number of mobs and potential named targets. Same thing in citadel if you do a normal run through and run out of mobs you can include the watxh captain, masters, shadows, and the robed guys on the way to CC.
Moraelintz
Dalayan Elder
Also what is to stop those same people that collect all the pp from still inviting people for the exp and still keeping the pp?
Cinny
Dalayan Elder
What will stop these people from doing that is the fact that people will know o hey there is increased plat and drops for adding more people to my group so i can then invite more people without causing loss to myself however the only way i can do that is if they actively participate. Knowing this they will be more obligated to give these members a part of the split. because if the members know they dont get a split they will just not get on the hate list and not give this person extra plat
As for the first part and the "flaw" if yea read more closely i already stated there were plenty of mobs to add to your loop in BQ/cita the problem is in zones like Kae where killing all of library and doing that over is the ratio of plat/effort is favorable while adding the hard side to that loop is A not that favorable and B annoying since you then have to evac/ clear through a bunch of trash to get there where as i can keep the 4 nameds in library plus 2 chests down without evacing and then if i really want i can evac pop the chest near the ent and go back to library farming rinse and repeat. If i duo i dont kill this fast enough to prevent respawns but i kill it plenty fast enough that inviting more people would decrease my plat generation if i added anymore than 1 additional person.
As for the first part and the "flaw" if yea read more closely i already stated there were plenty of mobs to add to your loop in BQ/cita the problem is in zones like Kae where killing all of library and doing that over is the ratio of plat/effort is favorable while adding the hard side to that loop is A not that favorable and B annoying since you then have to evac/ clear through a bunch of trash to get there where as i can keep the 4 nameds in library plus 2 chests down without evacing and then if i really want i can evac pop the chest near the ent and go back to library farming rinse and repeat. If i duo i dont kill this fast enough to prevent respawns but i kill it plenty fast enough that inviting more people would decrease my plat generation if i added anymore than 1 additional person.
There are already groups that ask for active leechers that take no split. There would continue to be groups that ask for leechers that take no split because they would have more incentive to want active leechers; it earns them even more cash!
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