Cmal 4-1,4-2

[vistachiri]

I'm in complete agreeance with Cinn. This is another case of the devs being unhappy while everyone else who has completed the encounter (which is a small group) is happy about the way it was.

/agree

As it stands most classes simply will not have anything to do with cmal 4.2. And even then, why was it not balanced first, if that was a major problem with it, instead limitations that would be better served after the fact are put in, excluding a large number of classes simply because of problems inherent in the encounter itself.

 

[Thinkmeats]

Has anyone pointed out that you've had to be flagged to get 4-2 loots for quite a while? I thought that got added back when forsa was doing it.

 

[vistachiri]

Has anyone pointed out that you've had to be flagged to get 4-2 loots for quite a while? I thought that got added back when forsa was doing it.

Never got added as far as any of us knew, flagged from 4.1 to get 4.2 loots you mean?

 

[Thinkmeats]

Never got added as far as any of us knew, flagged from 4.1 to get 4.2 loots you mean?

Yeah, isn't that what you guys were talking about?

edit: Ah, reread the first post. i c

 

[seferon]

WE don't know what the fuck were talking about. what we do know cmal 4-1 different people tried to get in to get loots and had no rights to the corpse because i don't know because. Before we all get into a bitching debate i want to know how exactly things were changed no just guesses and bitching about nothing someone that knows of this codes implementaion will you please respond with he freaking details of what was changed? as of the last time we did 4-2 aisling was able to get in and loot without any sort of 4-1, 4-2 flaging

 

[vistachiri]

WE don't know what the fuck were talking about. what we do know cmal 4-1 different people tried to get in to get loots and had no rights to the corpse because i don't know because. Before we all get into a bitching debate i want to know how exactly things were changed no just guesses and bitching about nothing someone that knows of this codes implementaion will you please respond with he freaking details of what was changed? as of the last time we did 4-2 aisling was able to get in and loot without any sort of 4-1, 4-2 flaging

yep, and so was everyone else, like ever. When I looted my 3rd relic from there like I'd say around 6-7 months ago at the very least, I had no problems, yet never even did cmal 4 at that point.

 

[Xeldan]

I wasn't aware if it was actually implemented with the War patch or not though since I'm out of town right now.

Bolded that to point out the fact I wasn't aware this was actually implemented.

But the mob would retain the same loots, or?

If this was made happen and the loots were to remain unchanged, then people would just find the classes it takes to make 4.1/4.2 the easiest.

Correct, that would happen. It already happens now. The major difference is that it would actually be an option to bring a different group and still be able to beat the encounter, in the situation Homogenn suggested.

 

[vistachiri]

Bolded that to point out the fact I wasn't aware this was actually implemented.

Correct, that would happen. It already happens now. The major difference is that it would actually be an option to bring a different group and still be able to beat the encounter, in the situation Homogenn suggested.

So shit changes now? Based on what you bring? Or am I incredibly confused?

 

[seferon]

xeldan i know you don't know what happened as i was saying to other people in vent but the fact is something was changed and as such someone has to have knowledge of it.

 

[Garluk]

Ok, so this new flagging system is in. A group from Guild A goes in and does 4-1....barely. They know that 4-2 is still out of their league so they loot and scoot from 4-1. Later that day, next day, whatever, a group from Guild B that is able to box the right characters to do 4-2 goes in with their perfect setup and kills it. However, the stuff that drops from the kill is not useful to this group or is duplicates. Their mains, however, could certainly use the drops and were parked outside in a raid for just this occurrence. But since 4-1 was done by another guild, they didn't have a chance to get flagged. Grats, rot.

Or is the flagging system permanent? Does each character only have to participate in one 4-1 kill to be permanently flagged for looting rights to 4-2 or do they have to be flagged for each kill? If it's each kill, then the ultimate cockblock would be going in and doing 4-1 and leaving 4-2 up.

Unless the event is customized based on which characters zone in or all tanks/priests/dps classes are virtually identical this was a really bad decision and pretty much screws anyone that is not the best in their respective category. The event, particularly 4-2, is just too difficult to do with just anyone. And I was present for both of Steel's victories in 4-2, but not on my ranger.

 

[Mythryn]

Ok, so this new flagging system is in. A group from Guild A goes in and does 4-1....barely. They know that 4-2 is still out of their league so they loot and scoot from 4-1. Later that day, next day, whatever, a group from Guild B that is able to box the right characters to do 4-2 goes in with their perfect setup and kills it. However, the stuff that drops from the kill is not useful to this group or is duplicates. Their mains, however, could certainly use the drops and were parked outside in a raid for just this occurrence. But since 4-1 was done by another guild, they didn't have a chance to get flagged. Grats, rot.

Or is the flagging system permanent? Does each character only have to participate in one 4-1 kill to be permanently flagged for looting rights to 4-2 or do they have to be flagged for each kill? If it's each kill, then the ultimate cockblock would be going in and doing 4-1 and leaving 4-2 up.

Unless the event is customized based on which characters zone in or all tanks/priests/dps classes are virtually identical this was a really bad decision and pretty much screws anyone that is not the best in their respective category. The event, particularly 4-2, is just too difficult to do with just anyone. And I was present for both of Steel's victories in 4-2, but not on my ranger.

When Forsaken first had people sit out in Starfall but in the raid (thanks to Wiz for the idea lol) and it was brought to Wiz's attention he said that he was going to implement a flagging system in order to loot items, and only characters that have beaten 4-1 (which in all honesty is very easy compared to 4-2 and the only class you can't really do without is an enchanter) would be able to loot items from 4-2. If thats not currently how it's done then either it's bugged or Wiz changed the way it was going to be. Sure it's a shitty deal, but it's been a long time coming.

 

[Xeldan]

So shit changes now? Based on what you bring? Or am I incredibly confused?

Err, yeah sorry, you're confused. I was talking about the fact that "the easiest way" already happens now but it's unfortunately close to the only way.

 

[vistachiri]

Err, yeah sorry, you're confused. I was talking about the fact that "the easiest way" already happens now but it's unfortunately close to the only way.

aaah ok gotcha

 

[Zhak]

Garluk brings up an incredibly good point, if the flag only lasts for one kill then the system sucks and it should be changed so that the character only needs to kill 4-1 once for a permanent flag to loot 4-2.

 

[seferon]

Garluk brings up an incredibly good point, if the flag only lasts for one kill then the system sucks and it should be changed so that the character only needs to kill 4-1 once for a permanent flag to loot 4-2.

I agree completely the problem is the person that needs to respond to tell us what flaging system they used or if its in game or what ever seems to be ignoring this thread

 

[misin]

I've talked to Brandar last night about Cmal 4 in general and from what he said you could probably switch out certain classes if you are good enough / geared enough. Problem is just that you more or less need some sort of burst DPS - and Necro for example is definitely no burst DPS class compared to a wizard or even a rogue.

So yeah - it'd kinda suck if you could only loot stuff if you participated in the fight itself but I'll wait with further comments until I got a shot on it myself.

An archaic'd necro can be considered burst DPS if you look at it. the problem is i dunno what cmal4 is like if its just a bunch of somewhat low HP mobs then yeah the wizard wins, but if we're talking a long fight on one or two dudes the wizard is gonna have to start with concussion and nuke then concussion again while the archic DoT does 1k damage per tick necros will have already done 2k damage before the wizard gets a nuke off. lets say he does 5k with his nuke he's gonna have to concussion again before he nukes and by then the necro will have done 4k if all he casted was archiac DoT. The way i see it is after 4 or so spells the wizard has done 10k damage (give or take, depending on how his crits are doing) and the necro has 3 or 4 DoTs going doing 1k the first tick (Archaic) 1.6k the second tick (archaic + relic) and 2.3k the 3rd tick (Archaic+relic+poison) and in the 2.5 seconds that spells refresh the necro can FD with his AA and totally clear his aggro.

The problem is no one wants to try and this change is gonna force us to try different combos.

 

[antihelei]

An archaic'd necro can be considered burst DPS if you look at it. the problem is i dunno what cmal4 is like if its just a bunch of somewhat low HP mobs then yeah the wizard wins, but if we're talking a long fight on one or two dudes the wizard is gonna have to start with concussion and nuke then concussion again while the archic DoT does 1k damage per tick necros will have already done 2k damage before the wizard gets a nuke off. lets say he does 5k with his nuke he's gonna have to concussion again before he nukes and by then the necro will have done 4k if all he casted was archiac DoT. The way i see it is after 4 or so spells the wizard has done 10k damage (give or take, depending on how his crits are doing) and the necro has 3 or 4 DoTs going doing 1k the first tick (Archaic) 1.6k the second tick (archaic + relic) and 2.3k the 3rd tick (Archaic+relic+poison) and in the 2.5 seconds that spells refresh the necro can FD with his AA and totally clear his aggro.

The problem is no one wants to try and this change is gonna force us to try different combos.

Trust me, please dear god trust me, a necro CANNOT do cmal4.1 or cmal 4.2 it cannot be done you need a wizard who is going to do retarded DPS in as short amount of time as possible and a necro, even with archaic, cant bring the speed that a wizard can. the fact that almost every attempt there are a few 16k ultimates is the only reason its gets beat, and a necro simply cant out dps the healer mana

 

[Waldoff]

a necro could do 4-1 without a problem.


4-2 no tho

 

[Malluas]

4-2 can MAYBE (not sure since we havn't beat it yet) can only switch out the 2nd healer MAYBE.

4-1 you can rag tag it if you have good enough characters.

the flag implementation is fine IF anyone who has killed 4-1 can zone while in a raid.. and loot items. There is NO reason to have that any other way. It is insanely unfair for like 90% of a guild. And not cause "oh this person just sucks at their class" its cause you need a certain set up to kill 4-2.

4-1 should have a flag on the thing with the key to 4-1. You kill it in a group you are flagged to loot in 4-1.

I think Wiz didn't like how forsaken was running in bots and alts for loot by having them in the raid. The flag system wouldn't be bad if you were perma flagged after ONE kill of the Cmal 4 key dropper and 4-1 (for 4-2) loots.

 

[Mythryn]

Trust me, please dear god trust me, a necro CANNOT do cmal4.1 or cmal 4.2 it cannot be done you need a wizard who is going to do retarded DPS in as short amount of time as possible and a necro, even with archaic, cant bring the speed that a wizard can. the fact that almost every attempt there are a few 16k ultimates is the only reason its gets beat, and a necro simply cant out dps the healer mana

A necro could very easily do 4-1. Or a rogue, or a mage, or a monk, or a ranger.

And 4-2 pretty much has to be done with 3 healers and one of them HAS TO BE a shaman.