Change in Rules addressing guild flags

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I have been here a long time, and I have seen all that has gone on here, the public rage for against, on these forums for years. All a flagging requirement does is stroke one group of players epeens, while ruining another groups chances at fun. The whole "we can get X loot and you can't, nyah, nyah." is so juvenile that even a kindergartner would find it silly. Locking down a progression mob, not because you need it, but to keep others that need it from getting it, is about as low as you can get imo. For all the talk of the evils of ringers, and pugs, I find it hard this has been ignored, and in some case it seems encouraged. (Nexus comes to mind, yeah, lets make more of these things. *rolls eyes*)
Now, I can understand some flagging being tied to questing, and the storyline, I get that. But something should be done to prevent this kind of dickhead behavior. Isn't one of the server rules on player conduct include being respectful to each other? Or does that go out the window when raid mobs are involved? All's fair in love and war type thing?
Taken from the Rules page:
6. Player Conduct
Show proper conduct in dealing with other players. Deliberate training, killstealing, griefing, excessive vulgarity or otherwise being a prick to other players will result in severe repercussions to yourself. We try to maintain a friendly attitude and expect players to show respect to one another.

I don't see any except when clauses. So, maybe the solution to problems isn't to change raid or toon flagging at all, but to change player mentality, forcibly if needed. Just my 2 coppers worth.
 
well this all goes back to live, a lot of players were in guilds that did this (during pop etc) and now the same seem was desired here from the beginning or so I have been told. But it thrives on competition. But from my stand point I agree. A good example I was camping forest gloom for a long time and I didn't think it was fair, to have a box army just to get claim, so I would log off in hopes of someone else getting it, I am all for taking turns on things but not everyone feels the same I am 1% (insert joke) But I understand where your coming from. but needless to say the opinions of those who actively play should take presence over those that no longer actively play. there have been times when certain members of group's voice seems to take priority over anyone else. This is a group server and everyone wants to see it succeed.
 
so how do you think making keying as awful and terrible as possible will help the server succeed in any way when it all it will facilitate is more backgearing from the same guilds that cannot or will not progress past the same content they've been farming for the past year+
 
I was going to post earlier about keying. I think keying is really stupid and pointless. Any instance of keying leads to key backfarming as a necessity and key denial as a method of maintaining a monopoly on content.

I know devs want content done in a certain order, and I appreciate that some people think that getting a key is good from an achievement standpoint, but keying sucks. This comes from someone who has been denied keys occasionally. More importantly from someone who was in a position to, and did in fact, deny other people various keys continuously for years. Key fights need * versions if we have to have keying fights. There's still the roadblock of other guilds knowing the strat and keeping the zone bosses down.
 
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Reducing spawn time on Nexus would fix the current problem. However, the whole idea of requiring personal flags is entirely unique to Sanctum and makes no real sense. Either do it across the board, or don't do it at all, but be warned: doing it across the board would essentially kill Ikisith raiding.
 
Eh 15 / 18 require a flag u can "Scum" 3 toons into each raid, Spires have Saitha drop a flagging item, Tur ruj have Rujik drop a flagging item, Yclist have PE. This would reduce the backgearing factor that comes with the flagging. If a guild can get new people into the zone and kill boss with them in raid then 1 toon per raid can get a flag. (ontop of proposed flagging) (Stole this idea from PoTime Flagging process if u missed out on Elemental zones)

Having a t9 guild in t12 content and killing targets a guild who has done all the required flagging is bullshit, that just slows down the progression of guilds. were all on a ladder climbing toward the same end goal, if people start jumping over people and stoping no one will get anywhere.

I do agree that 18/18 requiring a flag is bullshit and i understand that the 2/3 rule was hard for GMs to enforce there has to be a way to find some middle ground here tho. This game is not fun when u get handed everything. Its fun when you are required to work for it, Its that sense of accomplishment you get when u get a new item or kill a new raid target that drives people to play games like this imo
 
Deleting posts is a bad idea it just looks really suspect it might be better to just punish the poster or edit in a quote about how they are being detrimental to the discussion
 
Unless I'm forgetting some undeads in Murk (there's 4 basic types... I think), they shouldn't be checking for flags at all anymore.
 
I'm bad at keeping up with forums tbh but.. I figured I would drop in and see what people are saying about pwny express. In regards to someone seeing track bots for pwny in the above listed zones.. you are probably mistaken. First off, there are active players on what could be construed as a ringer in our guild. It was at one point in time their mained character, legitimately leveled, and they may have been using said character to track a keyed zone.

Pwny has only entered 1 of the previously mentioned zones as a raid force 1 time, namely spires for a voidworm kill. That raid was in fact a pug, with multiple legitimately keyed players playing in the raid with us. It just so happens, they were friendly enough to enable us to see the content, while they were trying to a piece off voidworm.

Our regular trackers aren't flagged pwny, and basically every zone we go into we have appropriate keying on mained members of the raid.

Just figured I would give an answer from the GM of the guild which apparently started this thread.
 
Edit: Sheib beat me to it.

But don't worry Pwny won't be invading your precious spires zone any time soon! We've literally started at tier 1 and worked our way up to where we are at 8ish now.

We have thoroughly raided every single tier up to where we are now over the past 7 or 8 months.

Do we use a ringer tank sometimes? Yup... lots of guilds do just some of them are flagged under the guild so it's not so obvious.

Are we using 10 tier 12 ringers and going to spires? Nope.
 
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The 2/3 rule is fine, i like Nwaij's suggestions about keys. people chase faction without hesitation, murk spells etc. There would be little if any hesitation to overcome an obstacle. the one thing i would suggest is for any "keying" instance or event, have a 1/3 rule for people that are already keyed being able to participate in that particular event. just food for thought. the dissention and bottlenecking makes for tedious gaming, not fun.
 
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