Change in Rules addressing guild flags

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Abyss is now open to all who know how to get in. The entry quest should still be doable for uh... if you don't know how to get in, I guess.
 
Hate to be the one to mention this, but Exo seemed pretty interested in removing keying requirements back before Prime got nerfed and you couldn't kill it.

Now that you guys have been farming Tur'ruj basement and front Sanctum for a solid year, you want to prevent people from getting in there. Interesting.

But no, the rules are what they are, and we fought to have them this way. And I say, Sacred Band and anyone should be up in Tur'Ruj farming your tier 9 mobs that drop t12 loot.
 
*Progression mobs are a debate worth having, but not in this thread.

Its still not fun at all to have to take a guild to kill content with all rot loot just because one dude happened to skip that tier.

Guild competition is fun in general - you win some and lose some.

Having one guild sit and repeatedly kill the progression mob for the purpose of keeping opponent guild from progressing is fun for one group and miserable for the other.
 
cian2 said:
Hate to be the one to mention this, but Exo seemed pretty interested in removing keying requirements back before Prime got nerfed and you couldn't kill it.

Now that you guys have been farming Tur'ruj basement and front Sanctum for a solid year, you want to prevent people from getting in there. Interesting.

But no, the rules are what they are, and we fought to have them this way. And I say, Sacred Band and anyone should be up in Tur'Ruj farming your tier 9 mobs that drop t12 loot.
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Your memory is blurred there. Exodus NEVER fought for getting keying removed, that has allway been what FWF fought for.
 
Perhaps what Mr. Nwaij has forgotten was THIS interview. His voting record clearly shows his thoughts on the keying issues we face today. My fellow Dalayans, read my letters: NO NEW TRADESKILLS!
 
Could anyone outline exactly what problems the current system is causing?
 
Rorne said:
Could anyone outline exactly what problems the current system is causing?
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*PLAYER HAT ON*

In the past, there was the 2/3rds rule for PuGs. It was a nightmare to police, so eventually it got changed.

The problem is that only half the change went in: Rule is now "If you can get there, you can kill it", but the checks for precontent never went in, leaving people who have no business being there going to zones that have heavy quest prerequirements. I know most people will disagree with me here, but getting loot served on a golden platter just feels WRONG for me.

Also problematic: Sanctum has a prerequirement flag check. It's the only place that works this way, making the new rule set inconsistent.

*PLAYER HAT OFF*
 
What dictates whether you have business being in a zone though?
 
Yeah, sanctum has prereq checks per player. Ignoring the fact that the check is iffy, and a lot of characters who had done all of IP, killed nexus, and even raided sanctum before often aren't flagged (which is maybe my biggest complaint), but since this has been the case nexus has been locked down hardcore. Exo and CW have been raiding sanctum with old retired characters because their mains happen to not have flags, and nexus gets killed as soon as it spawn at 2am with 6 people because its a way to slow down other guild's progress.

That kind of competition just isnt fun for me (and i think for most players). Competing to catch a raid mob that is a challenge for everyone can be fun. Killing an easy mob as soon as it spawns for no benefit other than cockblocking is lame. Its not one mob one day, it locks people out of entire zones and causes a lot of people to quit.

Also claiming "exodus thought this or that" is kind of silly since exodus is a lot of different people with different opinions. When you all were stuck on prime forever, or when FWF was laughing for months killing saitha for our alts to keep you out of turuj (and you got it just because we got bored and stopped killing it), I talked to a LOT of exodus people who seemed to think these methods of progression were lame and unfun. Even being on the "winning" side of this exchange gets lame after some time, because you dont benefit from it anymore, you do it entirely to keep other people from progression. Guilds should compete because they both want loot from a mob, not because they want to lock eachother out of entire zones.
 
Rorne said:
What dictates whether you have business being in a zone though?
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This is also something that is hard to determine. Sure the new rules mean someone can ringer pugs easier, but guilds have been doing the same thing forever. I've seen countless exodus people with a 100k no tomes, no apparent quest progression get carried through spires and turuj.

A zone like Yclist requires a lot of questing to get into, more questing than many players are interested in doing. If you required every player to do the full Iksith quest line for yclist, spires, turuj, there would be a lot less people raiding those zones, and there would be a lot of people doing quests they dont enjoy at all just because its the only way they can continue to hang out with their guild.
 
its still fucking stupid that you get a free clear to ulazz/the nexus with the new sanctum port.
 
Silosobi said:
If you required every player to do the full Iksith quest line for yclist, spires, turuj, there would be a lot less people raiding those zones, and there would be a lot of people doing quests they dont enjoy at all just because its the only way they can continue to hang out with their guild.
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Want to echo a sentiment in here kind of, from the dev side.

Having only one (1) guild do a zone for the first year or so of its existence sucked. They had a monopoly on feedback, so my sense of how anything and everything in the zone was was necessarily skewed. By the time anyone else got there I was tired of the zone and didn't remember how most of it was put together anymore anyway. The whole experience was kind of deflating: I didn't want to make content for just one guild. Even however many years later now (3?) not many people have seen the zone at all, maybe 3 guilds now? There are a lot of raiding players who'll probably never see it even as things are now. It has killed any interest I might have had in making any more really high-end content.

If I were to do what Nwaij was saying, I'd basically be saying: this content is so awesome and I like it so much that I want to make sure that the lowest possible number of players will ever get to see it, even less than now.

I'd rather just delete spires, honestly. I'd like more people to get to enjoy stuff I've put time into, if possible; not less. I use to be pretty well against ringers and all that, but you know: screw it. Having fun should outweigh rules lawyering. If you have to rules lawyer to deprive other people of fun just to protect your own fun, that's pretty dumb and the whole system should probably change. That inevitable sense of "it was set up in a retarded way when we did it, so it should be retarded for everyone forever" isn't very good either.

It's a fact that guilds are pretty fluid and can pop up and blink out of existence at pretty much any time and any tier. Trying to regulate things as if they weren't and as if every character progressed through each tier sequentially would be pretty silly. There's enough backgearing without enforced backflagging or whatever on top of it.

I think instancing would be worth considering if it comes to it. We have more than enough instance spots (currently devoted to almost-never-used-and-probably-no-more-than-2-at-any-one-time house zones) and our server can almost certainly handle it now. Competing might be fun to some degree, but I'm willing to bet that most of it is frustrating bullshit and that the un-fun of it outweighs the fun.
 
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raid timer lockouts used sparingly would probably go a long way, especially on mobs that exist just for keying
 
Removing a keying process that the dev team worked long and hard on to create is slapping and spitting in their face. They were made for a reason and should be followed. But for big guys like spires prime flagging a guild kill gets you flagged should stand as it is, mainly because you need to work as a guild to kill prime enchanter or just used retired toons to get carried to victory, and to even debate to remove it or require all parties flagged for that zone would be silly. but back to topic Guild flagging should be enforced and the if you can get there rule should be removed.
 
ynnear said:
Removing a keying process that the dev team worked long and hard on to create is slapping and spitting in their face.
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Seeing as I had this keying process forced on my zone, and I too thought it was bullshit when I found out how Prime Enchanter was and waited month after month for someone to get to Spires, I have to disagree there.
 
i would have thought using logic here, you would have had say how players could enter the zone aka questline etc, not linked to another zone similar to abyss keying process.
 
I'm not sure what you just said.

Abyss no longer has a keying process, though. That one wasn't forced on me.
 
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