Burning War Drum

[Syalara]

Why are you the first bard to think this item needs to be changed?

Should Rou be asked to speak for the other bards that have this item? How many even do? Less then 5? Less then 3? Maybe he's the first casue the other(s) didnt wanna get flack from non bards who know little/nothing about the class. idk. Btw, Thizik I hear plays a bard, see his posts in this thread.

How do you know that there are no other encounters in the game that require this item?

Last time I checked, Ruin hasn't beaten the game yet.

There are what? Less then 12 encounters in the game that Ruin has not beaten. But clearly in those 12 encounters there *must* be several where its useful, not like the rest of the entire raid game we have killed before right?

It does not seem crazy outta whack unbalancing for an instrument to be improved between PoA and ToT without a snare making it next to useless.

 

[Xach]

Good luck.

 

[shanoma]

Obviously, the remedy to the situation is to make the drum equippable in the head slot.

No, I'm not kidding. This will give the drum more applications, while still severely limiting its power, and enable it's atk mod to actually be used. In some situations the bard will want to wear his normal helmet and not be snared, and in some situations he'll be able to melee while using the percussion mod, but virtually unable to run away.

 

[iaeolan]

Why do we need a better kite instrument? mobs will die a tick faster, sweet.

Obviously, the remedy to the situation is to make the drum equippable in the head slot.

No, I'm not kidding. This will give the drum more applications, while still severely limiting its power, and enable it's atk mod to actually be used. In some situations the bard will want to wear his normal helmet and not be snared, and in some situations he'll be able to melee while using the percussion mod, but virtually unable to run away.

Worst idea ever. Do you even realize what you are saying? this would be irreplaceable for a bard. Best percussion mod plus melee dps plus attack bonus, only detriment snare. Sold. Please think before you post ffs.

 

[ryutakin]

You say you aren't kidding but I find it hard to beleive

 

[Manluas]

My point might be totally off but even w/o this drums bards are the best overall soloers by far.

I don't think it'd be a good idea to further increase this gap because it'd make things really unbalanced. Lets say it had no snare on it, I'm pretty sure Felyn would've his last tome completed at least 2-3 weeks ago, not because he could've killed more mobs but he could've killed everything faster. Does not seem too balanced to me since a bard is the only class I know that could go and just rape a zone over and over and over and over again. Just my 2cp on the matter, I do NOT think that this drum should be w/o a hefty drawback for the sake of soloing balance.

 

[Syalara]

And yet how many bards do what Felyn did? Using him as an example or as a reasoning not to implement/alter something in game is beyond retarded. The guy xp'd and tomed are an amazing rate no doubt but he is far and away the exception to the rule. Also considering the number of bards that can possibly attain the item and the stage of the game they are likely in when attaining it (full or close to it aa's at least some tome(s) done) I am not super worried about legions of xp whoring bards shitting up zones and your so called soloing balance.

I had to hold back a laugh when I wrote 'soloing balance'.

 

[shanoma]

Worst idea ever. Do you even realize what you are saying? this would be irreplaceable for a bard. Best percussion mod plus melee dps plus attack bonus, only detriment snare. Sold. Please think before you post ffs.

LOL...If it had "head" on it, you'd equip it from time to time. The only reason you're crying about that is because you're worried people are going to expect you to wear a head-drum. And you think you can make me look stupid, but I'll have you know that nobody can make me look as stupid as I can make me look stupid! Shazaam!

Edit - Unless this drum was created as a total joke on bards, the lack of making it equippable in a slot other than secondary was just an oversight. Whoever created probably just forgot to add in a slot such as head, so the bogus +250atk buff on it could be used. Snare is of course necessary to keep the item from being irreplaceable. With head slot added to the drum, there are going to be many circumstances where a bard with it is definately going to have it equipped. However, because of the snare, there's going to be at least 3 times as many circumstances where a bard WON'T have it equipped and will simply have it bagged.

Equipped example: Raid game, fighting a boss.

Unequipped example: XP group, moving frequently around a zone. Kiting a zone. Soloing Felyn-style in DN or SL. Any time movement is involved. Doing crowd control on a t-map or anywhere else.

I'm sure that you bards can think up lots more examples of both, with the places and times you wouldn't use it sticking most heavily in your mind.

 

[Rouean_Onrielas]

Why do we need a better kite instrument? mobs will die a tick faster, sweet.

Are you serious? Just actually think about this sentence for a second. Every little bit helps but that's not the point. Bards have not gotten better at kiting since tier 3 It is <<<NOT>>> much to ask when I say "Hey maybe I'd like a drum that's a bit better than the one I've been using since tier 3" (which by the way has been like 1.5 to 2 years since i got it)

My point might be totally off but even w/o this drums bards are the best overall soloers by far.

This a false statement and obviously backed with no factual evidence. You better be able to back something like this up with parses. A Ranger can kill single mobs much faster than a bard while kiting and over the course of 3 mobs I'd say they are on par or the ranger comes out ahead. The same can be said about a wizard. They can kill mobs using pbaoe's or single nukes and kill faster than a bard but they have to have med breaks so it evens out. There are many ways for each class to solo outdoors short of pure melee having limited options. The difference lies in the fact that while other kiting classes have gotten better at kiting since tier 3 bards have not. Like Syalara said I have done all but MAYBE 12 encounters that exist and all but like 2 are in sanctum.

I don't think it'd be a good idea to further increase this gap because it'd make things really unbalanced. Lets say it had no snare on it, I'm pretty sure Felyn would've his last tome completed at least 2-3 weeks ago, not because he could've killed more mobs but he could've killed everything faster. Does not seem too balanced to me since a bard is the only class I know that could go and just rape a zone over and over and over and over again. Just my 2cp on the matter, I do NOT think that this drum should be w/o a hefty drawback for the sake of soloing balance.

You obviously have no idea how Felyn got his exp and please quit comparing how fast felyn exp's compared to the entire population. I think maybe 1 or 2 other bards even have a completed tome. The only gap that exists is leaving bards behind. Rangers get better bows and more crit strike making them do insane dps to trash they kite. Wizards get better focuses and much more mana making them able to kite faster and for much longer periods of time. I could make the same examples with other classes that can kite. Bards have one method of increasing DoT dps and that is with a drum. and the plain fact is that we have not gotten a new drum since tier 3. We are now on something like tier 10. I finally get this new drum but it is useless.

This means your point is totally false and moot because after 7 tiers you think bards have this amazing edge over wizards and rangers and druids and necros, etc, they must've had one hell of a huge lead at tier 3. Find out facts and quit going on hearsay that bards are so uber amazing because they dont have to use mana to kite. Give me a break.

Just as a response to your last sentence. If that's your logic then Focuses should only work while in an 18 man raid because obviously using an item you earned in a raid, outside of a raid, shouldn't be allowed. The same goes for rangers. No Drop raid bows should have all their damage switched to some sort of bane that only effects raid mobs. syduck:

Bards have to keep a dot on 3 separate mobs to maximize their dps while kiting. Even using 3 Relics on 3 separate mobs i would gain a grand total of 58 more dps by using the War drum over the Conc Drum. If you think that's overpowering then man you must want a huge nerf to ToT level necros cause they do a hell of a lot more dps in DoTs than a PoA level necro.

 

[Mythryn]

Are you serious? Just actually think about this sentence for a second. Every little bit helps but that's not the point. Bards have not gotten better at kiting since tier 3 It is <<<NOT>>> much to ask when I say "Hey maybe I'd like a drum that's a bit better than the one I've been using since tier 3" (which by the way has been like 1.5 to 2 years since i got it)


This a false statement and obviously backed with no factual evidence. You better be able to back something like this up with parses. A Ranger can kill single mobs much faster than a bard while kiting and over the course of 3 mobs I'd say they are on par or the ranger comes out ahead. The same can be said about a wizard. They can kill mobs using pbaoe's or single nukes and kill faster than a bard but they have to have med breaks so it evens out. There are many ways for each class to solo outdoors short of pure melee having limited options. The difference lies in the fact that while other kiting classes have gotten better at kiting since tier 3 bards have not. Like Syalara said I have done all but MAYBE 12 encounters that exist and all but like 2 are in sanctum.

You obviously have no idea how Felyn got his exp and please quit comparing how fast felyn exp's compared to the entire population. I think maybe 1 or 2 other bards even have a completed tome. The only gap that exists is leaving bards behind. Rangers get better bows and more crit strike making them do insane dps to trash they kite. Wizards get better focuses and much more mana making them able to kite faster and for much longer periods of time. I could make the same examples with other classes that can kite. Bards have one method of increasing DoT dps and that is with a drum. and the plain fact is that we have not gotten a new drum since tier 3. We are now on something like tier 10. I finally get this new drum but it is useless.

This means your point is totally false and moot because after 7 tiers you think bards have this amazing edge over wizards and rangers and druids and necros, etc, they must've had one hell of a huge lead at tier 3. Find out facts and quit going on hearsay that bards are so uber amazing because they dont have to use mana to kite. Give me a break.

Just as a response to your last sentence. If that's your logic then Focuses should only work while in an 18 man raid because obviously using an item you earned in a raid, outside of a raid, shouldn't be allowed. The same goes for rangers. No Drop raid bows should have all their damage switched to some sort of bane that only effects raid mobs. syduck:

Bards have to keep a dot on 3 separate mobs to maximize their dps while kiting. Even using 3 Relics on 3 separate mobs i would gain a grand total of 58 more dps by using the War drum over the Conc Drum. If you think that's overpowering then man you must want a huge nerf to ToT level necros cause they do a hell of a lot more dps in DoTs than a PoA level necro.

Yeah, you basically just summed up why bards need better instrument itemization, not why this item needs to be better. But then again, if you add more instruments to the raid game, and Guild X gets its twenty-second bard-only Singsong Flute of Happy Songs off of Mr. Big the raid encounter, most people aren't going to be too thrilled.

 

[iaeolan]

Yeah, you basically just summed up why bards need better instrument itemization, not why this item needs to be better. But then again, if you add more instruments to the raid game, and Guild X gets its twenty-second bard-only Singsong Flute of Happy Songs off of Mr. Big the raid encounter, most people aren't going to be too thrilled.

Instrument +mod augments in the form of bard progression quests, anyone?

LOL...If it had "head" on it, you'd equip it from time to time. The only reason you're crying about that is because you're worried people are going to expect you to wear a head-drum. And you think you can make me look stupid, but I'll have you know that nobody can make me look as stupid as I can make me look stupid! Shazaam!

Edit - Unless this drum was created as a total joke on bards, the lack of making it equippable in a slot other than secondary was just an oversight. Whoever created probably just forgot to add in a slot such as head, so the bogus +250atk buff on it could be used. Snare is of course necessary to keep the item from being irreplaceable. With head slot added to the drum, there are going to be many circumstances where a bard with it is definately going to have it equipped. However, because of the snare, there's going to be at least 3 times as many circumstances where a bard WON'T have it equipped and will simply have it bagged.

Equipped example: Raid game, fighting a boss.

Unequipped example: XP group, moving frequently around a zone. Kiting a zone. Soloing Felyn-style in DN or SL. Any time movement is involved. Doing crowd control on a t-map or anywhere else.

I'm sure that you bards can think up lots more examples of both, with the places and times you wouldn't use it sticking most heavily in your mind.

No really, think this through.... +250atk, highest percussion mod affecting rdot, melee weapons..... If it were a head slot I can't think of any stat I would bag this for over the increase in dps. Use your brain or leave the bard threads to bards

the +250 atk is for throwing or H2H melee if anything

 

[Mythryn]

Instrument +mod augments in the form of bard progression quests, anyone?

It's a great idea, but Bards shouldn't be the only ones to improve their main utility outside the raid/exp game.

 

[iaeolan]

It's a great idea, but Bards shouldn't be the only ones to improve their main utility outside the raid/exp game.

Well, our utility increases by either being tacked on to random items or by being neglected over many tiers. I don't think any other class can say this happens to them.

 

[Mythryn]

Well, our utility increases by either being tacked on to random items or by being neglected over many tiers. I don't think any other class can say this happens to them.

Probably because your utility is overall very powerful. (and by utility I mean Pot4, Melody of the Shield, Warcry, Saviour) Just about every raid encounter is designed around one or two of those, and without them, things are nigh impossible. The raid doesn't care about a Bards DPS, or mezzing ability, or sweet AE slows/fears/DoTs what-have-you, they care about their resists, and those nasty -200 to -500 resist mod AEs/Spells rending their fragile little flesh.

Regardless, this isn't the thread for class balance, and the Devs seem to like the classes how they are. The Drum is fine. The itemization before it, is not. It's that simple.

 

[Thinkmeats]

A request to make a situational item into a non-situational item is about as silly as a request to make a 1hs into a 1hb. If you think there ought to be a general-purpose high-end drum, make a thread for that. You probably shouldn't try to hijack what is obviously intended to be for whirlwind mobs etc and turn it into a solo xp bonazabongo.

edit:

the Devs seem to like the classes how they are

Without commenting on the accuracy of this statement, I'd point out that trying to guess at what we think about stuff isn't a super productive mode of discussion.

 

[Rouean_Onrielas]

A request to make a situational item into a non-situational item is about as silly as a request to make a 1hs into a 1hb. If you think there ought to be a general-purpose high-end drum, make a thread for that. You probably shouldn't try to hijack what is obviously intended to be for whirlwind mobs etc and turn it into a solo xp bonazabongo.

If that's how dev's feel then fine. It's not situational it's useless other than one mob in ToT and I seriously doubt it will find use in more than 1 encounter in Sanctum. I made a good suggestion for a "general-purpose high-end drum" using an existing drum that finds extremely limited to no use backed with dps numbers, and legitimate ties to nonexistent progression, and offered alternate solutions, so please don't take all my work and shit on it saying it's dumb like asking to make a 1hs a 1hb. It is a measly 58 dps increase to kiting over a 7 tier span. (Not exactly a "solo xp bonazabongo") So, sorry I think that my class should get some increase in the form of an actual instrument progressing from PoA to ToT.

EDIT: If you would prefer seeing new instrument itemization to tiers starting with tier 1 and up I would be more than happy and more than willing to talk 1 on 1 with a developer and brainstorm to create new instruments and where to place them (preferably as rare drops from trash mobs to avoid the guilds gettting drum 12 Etc). I would even be willing to do all this by myself for all the instrument types and then present the finished product to a Developer to check over and go from there.

 

[shanoma]

Hey, if you want help making new instruments I've got some gnarly ideas I can run by you.

 

[robopirateninja]

Sod needs more accordion mods

 

[xeener101]

syduck:

 

[Rouean_Onrielas]

well i got my concubine drum and use it.. prob wont have my thaz snare drum for a while
but i can already think of a few extra mobs that i will be able to add to my solo/duo farming list
if i had it.

there are other precussion mods on ur way up the teirs ie 1 hand drums from pon .. none like the poa drum

thaz drum is still a sexy toy . i assume ae snare and selos and ur still able to kite fine ..

This deserves a giant syduck:

It's ToT not Thaz. You wouldn't be able to solo anything with it cause it would eat you alive. It's not a sexy toy it is useless other than one encounter. No, you'd lose a ton of dps by casting the snare so conc would be better and the mobs would still run faster than you even with selos. Don't get involved with things you have no idea about please. Also from my knowledge the PoN drum mod is less than conc because it is equipable in the range slot and other than that there is no actual drum between PoA and ToT