Bottlenecking Progress.

CharmCitysKing said:
What you get is what high tier players put in and you leech off of.
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Not trolling, this is the case

Buying tier 3-4 gear is not the fruit of *your* effort, unless you think putting in a few days of farming plat "effort" (hint: it is not)

Likewise, leeching a group/raid that is several tiers higher is also not *your* effort

If people tried to get by on their effort alone, they would be wiping to low tier raids such as The Stasis Preserver (Dreamer)

And if you DO manage to leech your way to T7-9, odds are you're not a raid leader at that point; you follow what the raid leader does, press one or two buttons, and otherwise get fed strat information and still don't do shit.

TL;DR: The same guys that power through and leech their way to the top(middle) and have Ikisith gear at 55 are the same guys I have to hand hold through the bounty quest tutorial because they actually never learned to read, and the hand holding doesn't stop there.
 
pkin5 said:
This is just wrong really. These roadblocks were not here before most of the top tier guilds passed the content they exist at, meaning it still took them a really long time. Plus, as was mentioned earlier, it is really easy to skip a ton of stuff these days just by buying loot and stuff. The point is people who want to do it on their own can't and like I have mentioned before, getting to "tag along" is not always what people are wanting to do. Really a ton of the problem here would be solved if there were not a lot of high tier quests involving low tier mobs. I'm sure they are really cool quests, but they are not entry-level player friendly. I don't think the request is remove all roadblocks to progression, just remove things that cause people to be competing with those way out of their league.
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The OP's assertion was that these bottlenecks drive away players (and potential donors). That's what I was addressing. I actually agree with you about high end quests putting low end content out of reach for most on tier players.
 
Moraelintz said:
Just out of curiosity what mobs are you complaining about? Almost all of the vah mobs have minimal loot, and a lot of the polore quest mobs are not only killed for the qp but also because they are relic droppers. There is a lot of content in the tier range that most likely stays up for a while to be killed by people trying to progress through the tiers. Also, if your friends are quitting now over of getting quest mob x in a certain timeframe it only gets worse the higher up you go. For instance cw not getting akarn or gloom for months, or not getting any/many attempts on a few 6 mans because they die within hours of spawning.
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The first thing that comes to mind for me is The Twins in cmal. They are the key mobs to move to cmal2, and drop a dungeon delvers piece - they basically are constantly sniped as soon as they pop (or at least were last time I cared to check regularly).
 
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If memory serves me correctly and it had been a while since I have worried about cmal 1, that is a 24 hour reapawn and it isn't farmed for dungeon delvers it is farmed for the weight reduction bag. It should also be fairly easy to find up. Park a tracker and find when it's up then get there 15 - 30 minutes earlier the next day an exp until it pops. The problem with that named is it is done by exp groups traversing through the zone.
 
This thread is full of hate and banter, and lacks much else.

I hear ya snow-man, tracking anything remotely related to vah is a pita.

For the rest of you pulling out soap boxes, stop bemoaning the loss of your beloved happyland.

-pazms
 
Shimone, I think you bring up a perfect example of the issue. While someone like me or you know we can track out cmal and come back the next day, but thats looking at two people that are already dedicated to the game. A fresh 55 (because cmal 1 is doable at that point) looks at this in a different light. 1) a non alt 55 generally does not have track bots yet. 2) If they had someone who could track this, they dont know the spawn timers for the most part. 3) Catching the key to the named and catching the named up is increadibly rare for a beginning casual player 4) Part of the new player base aren't quite as dedicated as you and me, to say hey im just going to come back and track this thing for 24 hours until I can figure out its spawn time.

Just using this mob as an example, I know of 0 non-alt new characters in the past year that have looted items off these bosses. When I took our newer T2 druid to the zone for something else she asked about them using the comment she'd never seen them up. This mob was designed for her tier, yet 99% of the kills on it are a run in and snipe by members much higher in tier, so they can get dungeon delvers 1 completed. Every time Ive killed the twins in the past its been for that piece for some, while rotting the rest of the items.

This is the perfect example of stuff that gets harvested by upper tier long term players that leaves new comers asking... is there anything besides trash mobs that I can kill without having to be gimped in?
 
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I agree that higher tier players steal some content for quest drops... but I don't know any way to change/fix it. Mobs with global timers and no instances are part of the game. It creates a lot of problems, but it also has its benefits, and its part of why people play this as opposed to WoW.

I would wager that one reason server numbers dwindle is that most people are here because we liked EQ. When EQ was more popular SoD was more popular. Over time, more and more old EQ players, who are potential SoD players either move on to newer games or just quit playing MMOs. Our graphics arent improving while everything else continues to do so.

As far as low tier content being stolen... I never experienced it as a big problem. I leveled up as a nub and joined a T1 guild. I had no higher tier friends to carry me. Sure, there are a few mobs that stay down due to quest pieces, but there is still plenty of content to progress on.

If there was a fix that didn't involve instances or * mobs giving more loot or quest drops than there used to be, I'd be for it, but I just don't see how to do it.
 
Phrog, i dont see your post as a troll, instead a VERY legitimate point. First timers do not get quite the opportunity to get by on their own effort... Its simply not possible to, and not because they cant kill the mobs in their tier, more so because they arent given the chance. I think if we at least gave them the chance, they would be mich more inclined to try.

I dont think letting mobs actually be spawned will impact newer players to the point that they will be T13 by the end of the year... and for those that have higher tiered help, well the current system doesnt slow them down much right now anyway. High end guilds generally know the spawn timers and go run these mobs in mere minutes anyway, so I dont see much of a change.

I still think some sort of flag system against the loot tables would be the best method though.
 
Solo, your wager is duly noted, but i have to disagree on the numbers vs time. When i picked sod 3-4 years ago it was because a competing server (name intentionally left out) only had 250 players at peak. That server now has 300 showing an increase. Most other servers from 3 years ago have either gone offline or increased in numbers.

likewise, when I started here 3-4 years ago the highest tier was 9. Duoing cmal 3 was considered epic, AWT and ART duoing was unheard of, the vah didnt exist and dungeon/relic delvers were either non existant or so hush hush no one ever harvested the mobs. The tiers have increased which is definately awesome, but unless some coding goes in to assist low enders like a loot flag based on named kill times, the numbers are going to continue to dwindle.
 
Vah/Dungen/Relic Delvers were all in the game when I was tier 1 and my guild never experienced a lack of content. Do you experience that super low tier players actually run out of content to do, or do they just cant find up the specific targets that get farmed for quests? If the latter is the case it kind of sucks, but I guess I feel like its just part of the game. There are highly contested mobs at all tiers of the game.
 
I will make this as a counter point for you cmal arguement, I have a sk and a cleric that I have leveld up the du together, and with no trackbots have keys from cmal 1 & 2. All it takes is a little consistency in xping in that zone. I found that I liked the exp and pp there versus some other zones and would frequently take groups there. @55 and even fresh 65 cmal 1 is prety good exp and cash even without the nameds. Also with it being 1 hour respawn for trash made it very viable place to exp for a while.

I do not see a very big problem with higher end people coming in and sniping a named or two for this quest or that. The only real problem with this is the vah quest because there is a large variety of people working on it. I dont see it as a big problem because I would wager a lot of the 'bosses' stay up a while (minus parcelean and possibly PoEarth mobs) and are most likely only killed by ppl working on vah, see Earth Terror.

The biggest arguement I can see is the sagacity quest line. Even at that though higher end people usually will try and raid for better (pofrost for casters). At the end of the day we all play for our reasons and if one of our goals is to become that high end player and romp all over lower tier content so be it. It can be frustrating for the lower tiered people, but usually it is only done once or twice and then there will be something else that cathes thier attention.
 
I will counter your counter argument :p I keep referring to non-alt new chars, your sk doesnt count :) I agree that the keys are obtainable. I have 4 sets of them... As far as the people will quit killing the mobs, i know of at least one monk that gets bored, goes and runs through to the named, feigns, stands and kills all of 1 and 2 except the final conclave event... next time i see em, ill jot his name down. I have seen this via track and looking at cmal 2 after he leaves on at a minimum of ten occasions. pretty sure the T10 monk doing this isnt after the T4 legs as I did fomelo him at one point and he has much better.

So maybe he will eventually stop and then someone else will probably take his place. Its become a server based on making sure we dont do anything that may drive away the high tier individual, while sacrificing the experience for those new 6 people that are coming into the game.

And yea we can say it will eventually stop, but then again weve been saying that for a couple years. Opening up T1-T5 might at least help the problem a little though.
 
pkin5 said:
The first thing that comes to mind for me is The Twins in cmal. They are the key mobs to move to cmal2, and drop a dungeon delvers piece - they basically are constantly sniped as soon as they pop (or at least were last time I cared to check regularly).
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Those guys get sniped by bad monks looking for a bad bag that doesn't drop very often mostly.
 
Zapple said:
Those guys get sniped by bad monks looking for a bad bag that doesn't drop very often mostly.
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Ok, the point still stands right? They get sniped. I couldn't just run in there and kill it, I would need to find 5 of my friends to go do it with me (ok depending on who maybe 3-4 but still). I don't want to just tag along with a ringer and get a key, I want to earn it. Cmal1 is boring, so I don't go much anymore because every time I wanted the cmal2 key, twins were down.

We know this problem exists, but we don't have WR bags dropping off high tier raid trash to create less incentive for T10 monks to roll through for a WR bag? I don't blame them for doing it, since I imagine being a monk sucks. But why isn't there a bag attainable at the appropriate tier then?

The problem is no different if it is monks or relic hunters, it is just wearing a different hat so to speak.
 
Honestly I'm not sure how many fewer times a mob would be sniped overall because of it, but adding a few more WR bags to higher tier trash mobs or something would be cool. I know plenty of high end monks that go after Lazuli for that bag, which is dumb. There's a 4 slot WR pouch from PoFire trash, and a 10 slot from a PoValor and from Citadel but that's all I really know of at the mid/high end.
 
Dinadass said:
Honestly I'm not sure how many fewer times a mob would be sniped overall because of it, but adding a few more WR bags to higher tier trash mobs or something would be cool. I know plenty of high end monks that go after Lazuli for that bag, which is dumb. There's a 4 slot WR pouch from PoFire trash, and a 10 slot from a PoValor and from Citadel but that's all I really know of at the mid/high end.
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WR bags from top of my head:
  • Quested from Remnants, 100%, 10slot
  • Lazuli, 100%, 10slot
  • Bag off Renu in Citadel, 100%, 10slot
  • Cmal twins, 100%, 6slot
  • Bag off holding, bought in Wisperling Forest at night, 100%, 10slot
  • Santas Burlap (seasonal article...), 100%, 10slot
  • That bag off the pig in PoValorA, 100%, 10 slot
 
Regardless of good monk or bad monk, this example of a good mob for fresh 65s has shown that this isnt a good example. I really dont see the issue with upgrading the loot code to put timers on characters making it a viable option to increase the spawn timers, which would allow people the opportunity to kill something without being able to use the same ringer to harvest and kill the same mob several times in the same week. We already run similar timers for buffs, death effects, and jail time. would it be that difficult in programming?

A perfect example of this would be, everyone in group X wants dungeon delvers ancient tarlishas head. They roll in kill her loot her random the item and leave. Timer triggers, they can not gain loot from killing her for at least seven days. 1 member returns to kill her 3 days later only to see her lootless corpse. they are all required to wait 1 week before loot will appear. At this rate it would still take a single group six weeks to finish her... I dont see many jumping to T14 overnight if it takes six weeks per group for a quest.

At the same time she spawns with her trash two hours later so a completely different group can also kill her.

It might need some tweeks like putting randoms on the keys for certain mobs in cmal, but it would allow new characters a chance to play (without being the option of gimp or dont get what u need...)
 
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Snow_Man said:
Regardless of good monk or bad monk, this example of a good mob for fresh 65s has shown that this isnt a good example. I really dont see the issue with upgrading the loot code to put timers on characters making it a viable option to increase the spawn timers, which would allow people the opportunity to kill something without being able to use the same ringer to harvest and kill the same mob several times in the same week. We already run similar timers for buffs, death effects, and jail time. would it be that difficult in programming?

A perfect example of this would be, everyone in group X wants dungeon delvers ancient tarlishas head. They roll in kill her loot her random the item and leave. Timer triggers, they can not gain loot from killing her for at least seven days. 1 member returns to kill her 3 days later only to see her lootless corpse. they are all required to wait 1 week before loot will appear. At this rate it would still take a single group six weeks to finish her... I dont see many jumping to T14 overnight if it takes six weeks per group for a quest.
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You suggest that in order to prevent people from not getting the mobs/loot they want, that others are prevented from getting the mobs/loot they want? What if a group of fresh 65s kill Tarlisha and next spawn they happen to kill her again? I would be pretty pissed if the corpse was lootless.

Tl;dr lock out timers are a terrible idea that I doubt will fix this "problem"
 
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