Blind auctions

[neonovas]

You'd have THOSE guys, though. You know, THOSE guys, the ones that will spam the hell out of every item > 500p with 5-10p offers, in the hopes that some absent-minded fool (me, namely) will accidentally accept. Sure, caveat emptor and all that.

I'm just of the mind that if it ain't broke, you don't fix it. And I don't think the current system is broke.

could make an "offer range" say you put it up for 500pp, you could make it only accept offers at a 400pp minimum. So you'd do like /cm listsold (min offer) (buy it now price) or something. Then when you get on you can see all the offers between 400-499 or see if it got instantly sold for 500. That would prevent fools (like us) from accepting a totally lowball over and prevent the obviously not serious offer spam.

It would also cut down on the huge amount of tradeskilling bankers. Seriously, I hate seeing 15 people in a row selling aug type X, aug type Y, aug type Z, tradeskill level A, tradeskill level B, etc etc etc

While it is annoying going through them, when i do want to buy an aug or something i'd much rather see a bunch of aug vendors in a row where i find the one that only sells type 2 and then look for the 1 type of it that i want than find some massive vendor with 100's of augs and scroll through trying to find the 1 kind of type 2 that i want.

I do like the idea of being able to do something like /cm listmain Player and seeing a list of listsolds that person has.

 

[Lithan]

You'd have THOSE guys, though. You know, THOSE guys, the ones that will spam the hell out of every item > 500p with 5-10p offers, in the hopes that some absent-minded fool (me, namely) will accidentally accept. Sure, caveat emptor and all that.

You mean kinda like the guys that have stacks of High value tradeskill items with 1 or 2 singles thrown in there at the same price as a stack? I expect that's a lot harder to notice than noticing the difference between 500 and 5.

 

[Obscenitor]

You mean kinda like the guys that have stacks of High value tradeskill items with 1 or 2 singles thrown in there at the same price as a stack? I expect that's a lot harder to notice than noticing the difference between 500 and 5.

I hope people don't actually fall for these things, the first characters on any line for a stackable item in Listsystem is the # in stack.. if you don't notice that you probably deserve to get punched in the ear.

 

[Dimmi]

I like the idea of "/cm listprice 400 500" that would send the item for anyone who would "/cm listbuy Soandso 34 475" etc....

The whole main banker bot deal...not such a big fan of. /note usually does the trick for me remembering which mules I buy what from.

 

[Plasmatic]

I support any improvements to the listsold system, I like the /cm Listoffer thing.

If you accidentally type /cm listoffer accept (or whatever the command would be).. you probably deserve it. all those letters by accident?

On another note: this doesn't actually have to do with the listsold but I believe it falls under the title 'Blind auction' as well as buyers are blinded.

When a player says in auction they are selling item X for 100pp vendor one expects that the vendor actually pays 100pp right? I've noticed recently that players tend to round upwards (a lot) and pass it off as vendor price..
(Note: I'm fine with rounding upwards when it's to the nearest increment of 10, I do this myself, if an item vendors for 16-19pp I usually round upwards to 20)

In my mind this gives any players not familiar with the exact vendor price of Item X a tainted picture and might make them pay more than they normally would have for an item.

While this is a dream come true for a seller, it's a nightmare for buyers.. I guess the question is, who does the player driven economy cater to? Buyers or sellers?

IE:
(Note: Dimmi as far as I know does not do this, he was just used as an example!)

Dimmi Auctions Dimmi's uber kilt 150pp vendor

while that looks fine, in reality Dimmi's uber kilt actually vendors for 100pp or less but players that aren't familiar with the item don't know this and essentially get a tainted picture of the items value.

People argue that items are worth whatever you want to pay for them, but I, as many others I believe, form opinions of an items worth based on the items vendor price. this results in giving me a tainted opinion of an items worth which would result in me paying more than I normally would have for an item.

Bottom line is, You shouldn't pass something off as vendorprice when it's not.

I understand that most people do this because some players bid by 1-5pp increments and it can results in items getting sold for very little profit above vendor price.

But I don't see why you don't just auction it for a price your comfortable with?
and not even mention the vendor beside the fact that usually when players auction saying vendor it usually means they are hovering the mouse over the sell to vendor button.. meaning your consciously using this to your advantage.

which further strengthens my argument, if the price you are asking is not vendor price it gives a tainted picture of the items value, and not only that, saying vendor also gives the impression there isn't a lot of time to ponder the item's worth.

P.S. I'm sorry if you feel this belongs in a thread of its own, I will gladly start one, I just came to think of it when reading this thread and figured it fit under the same title because sellers doing this are effectively blinding buyers.

P.P.S sorry just noticed I posted in a month old thread.

 

[jules4099]

Wouldn't a kilt for Dimmi be like a mini-skirt for the rest of us? Don't wanna be showin off me bits and pieces, ya know.

 

[Kelval]

[...]
and not even mention the vendor beside the fact that usually when players auction saying vendor it usually means they are hovering the mouse over the sell to vendor button.. meaning your consciously using this to your advantage.

which further strengthens my argument, if the price you are asking is not vendor price it gives a tainted picture of the items value, and not only that, saying vendor also gives the impression there isn't a lot of time to ponder the item's worth.[...]

I do it because indeed the item is already ready to be sold to the vendor, and that I'll take any minimal additionnal profit. I am not the profit over everything type of guy, I don't like auctionning lists of items. I'd rather sell to the vendor than bother with that.
If it doesn't sell in auctions, too bad, grats vendor. If I feel theres a way I can sell this item with a decent margin over the vendor, I won't auction it and will put in in the /list system.
I certainly don't do it because I expect people to feel pressed on it, I give the reference and thats all.

But you are right, next time I'll put my reference instead, and will sell to vendor nonetheless if people didn't bite. I've got enough crap clustering my bank as is.

 

[Allielyn]

I don't think its a big issue to address. The vendor price is just a nice starting point, the fair market value fluctuates wildly from that. I'm not concerned that players pay more to one seller than another, or that sellers watch out for their own interests. I assume that buyers play the same game, and those who want the 'best' price will shop around or wait and see what items sell for regularly. The buyer who jumps on a sale blindly thinking its a great price did worse than just believe a seller; he didn't do homework. If he thinks its a great price for the stats then good, he just got a great price on an item that gives him the stats he wants.

The bottom line is that prices aren't held to some sort of standard, aside from a market floor put in by vendor prices. We don't look at buyers and sellers and say "that's fair, that's not, this guys' getting ripped off - we better put in some buyer protection!" Not only do prices fluctuate too much for that, based on changes in farming habits, influx of population, and the RNG droprate, but it's far beyond the scope of our oversight to micromanage your playing experience. Or would you also like us to step in on pickup groups and manage false auctions there? Clearly, from Loose Platinum, at least one player is upset over others advertising their groups as 65++ when they are not. CALL THE POLICE!

Also, we do tweak vendor prices now and again. It could be that a player sells based on one vendor price, and it gets changed before the buyer unenchants it. Its far too much work to track this kind of thing, or guarantee any 'reimbursement' for it.

If this is something that happens a lot, I assume that the playerbase in general will get wise to the issue and said player will lose reputation over it. It is one of the benefits of working on a small server.

 

[gakule]

Great idea's, Allielyn - totally agree.

To OP: The FFXI system is okay... but too much involved with not being able to add in any UI components..

Idea: Would it be viable to maybe have an in game mailing system with /cm where you send the player a note of some kind with an offer? And perhaps they can just listsend it to you for the price if they like it?

Also, the sale range idea is a good idea. Put the top of the range as the asking price, and let people play with the numbers to see what they can get... people who aren't lazy, or are tight on plat, will benefit and people who spend whatever amount if they want an item bad enough, will get it quick and the seller will still get their money.

 

[Plasmatic]

I don't think its a big issue to address. The vendor price is just a nice starting point, the fair market value fluctuates wildly from that. I'm not concerned that players pay more to one seller than another, or that sellers watch out for their own interests. I assume that buyers play the same game, and those who want the 'best' price will shop around or wait and see what items sell for regularly. The buyer who jumps on a sale blindly thinking its a great price did worse than just believe a seller; he didn't do homework. If he thinks its a great price for the stats then good, he just got a great price on an item that gives him the stats he wants.

The bottom line is that prices aren't held to some sort of standard, aside from a market floor put in by vendor prices. We don't look at buyers and sellers and say "that's fair, that's not, this guys' getting ripped off - we better put in some buyer protection!" Not only do prices fluctuate too much for that, based on changes in farming habits, influx of population, and the RNG droprate, but it's far beyond the scope of our oversight to micromanage your playing experience. Or would you also like us to step in on pickup groups and manage false auctions there? Clearly, from Loose Platinum, at least one player is upset over others advertising their groups as 65++ when they are not. CALL THE POLICE!

Also, we do tweak vendor prices now and again. It could be that a player sells based on one vendor price, and it gets changed before the buyer unenchants it. Its far too much work to track this kind of thing, or guarantee any 'reimbursement' for it.

If this is something that happens a lot, I assume that the playerbase in general will get wise to the issue and said player will lose reputation over it. It is one of the benefits of working on a small server.

I'm not asking for auction police, I just don't think its fair that you can pass a price off as wholesale (vendor price) when it's not.
But I guess you are right, players just need to do more homework and wise up to some players being *****

 

[Tuidion]

In my opinion (not worth much since I'm an SoD noob) I'd say if a vendor is going to give you 200p for something, and you want to make your profit, just say you're starting bids at 230 (or however much you wanted make). It doesn't confuse people to what the vendor actually pays and if anyone bids on your item you make the lowest amount of profit that you were after anyways.