Bard Twisting

Anadin said:
But melees don't bring to the table what a bard does.
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Yeah I know. Stuff like DPS and mitigation isn't really important I suppose.

Screw it. Let's kite this dungeon! Who's with me?!?! Guys? Guys...?
 
Anadin said:
Lucifer, that's retarded.
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Well as long as we've come to this now -

It's foolish to somehow think a bard and a cleric or a bard and a warrior is somehow going to outdo a warrior/cleric or (oh what the hell) a monk/shaman combo.

And because of auto twist? Come on man. Really what's your beef. Did a bard own you in EQL? Why do you hate?
 
What part of their utility do you mean Anadin?

The buffs, the CC, or the DPS?

I dont' understand how it's unbalancing thta a bard will be able to DC better. When they can do the exact same thing with another class. And honestly, the constant button pushing would drive me insane, especially if you play alot, you do risk the chance of arthritis or other forms of joint problems (I know that sounds stupid, but it's true, and tendenitis (sp) isn't the easiest curable joint condition)...just so that you can play your class well? Ask any good bard if it drives them nuts on their fingers?

Like I said, if a bard DCed a wizard, or just grouped with another wizard they would be able to do the same stuff (with symphonies)...I don't see the big problem. Especially since every other class can DC fine.
 
I understand anadin. I think that part of what he means is that while a bard isn't necessarily better than any other class for DC reasons, when implemented, it will be TREMENDOUSLY easy to DC...basically becoming an auto-following hotkeyed super-easy-to-activate bot. All you would do is swap to it for your different symphony hotkeys and such. I dont know....I have mixed feelings.
 
I agree with lucifer on this... a bard is goign to be able to do haste heal and maybe resits duo with a warrior won't heal him enough both chars are gunan die like this topic should. O yea umm how are u gunan use charm or snare the right way with symphonies? tell me plz o wait u can't really cause we dont' even have them yet.. plz stop saying that sypmhonies are gunna DESTROY the bard class... and make it a dc whore.. who cares if it were to become this really? sypmhonies just makes it so we don't have to push buttons and u can't already do symphonies in a way with /stop song and cast just make a macro... DIE TOPIC DIE!
 
I suppose the only thing to do is wait till it's put in, and if it's weird Wiz would modify it so that it's more in balance as to what he wants.

Were not really getting anywhere atm :)
 
Anadin said:
lol. What makes you think this is getting put in?
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The fact that Wiz was working on it? And asking bards what they thought? And that about 95% of the bard population is bugging wiz for it? And also, the fact that Wiz said it was on the to do list? ;)
 
Time for me to weigh in.


The issue here is not making it "easier to DC" but the fact that you alter the difficulty of playing the class. You change the whole challenge of the class by letting them push one button and go to town. why isn't there the option to string together endless heals?? that would make the chain just obscenely obsolete. when you look at similar things to other classes you see the problem a little better. yes they are different classes, but if you turn people into true robots of singing redundance, you are completely changing the curve for the class. Bards were a challenge for for a reason, held in such prestige on some servers for the shear mind and hand numbing challenge that was bardom.. don't change our friends.. they need to be kept intact, and let those lazy wankers stop crying.
 
Thorbain said:
Time for me to weigh in.


The issue here is not making it "easier to DC" but the fact that you alter the difficulty of playing the class. You change the whole challenge of the class by letting them push one button and go to town. why isn't there the option to string together endless heals?? that would make the chain just obscenely obsolete. when you look at similar things to other classes you see the problem a little better. yes they are different classes, but if you turn people into true robots of singing redundance, you are completely changing the curve for the class. Bards were a challenge for for a reason, held in such prestige on some servers for the shear mind and hand numbing challenge that was bardom.. don't change our friends.. they need to be kept intact, and let those lazy wankers stop crying.
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You sound like someone who has never played a bard. The only thing manually twisting songs does is give a bard carpel tunnel syndrome. The comparisons you've drawn, such as a CHeal chain, are way off and/or non-applicable. CHeal chains require coordination among several people. Twisting is one bard playing a few different songs, there's no coordinating with other people. Apples & oranges.

A true comparison is auto attack. Not giving bards /medley is just like taking /autoattack away from the melees. It wouldn't make it any harder to play a warrior without auto attack, but it would certainly make it harder to DC... and your fingers sure would hurt.

I have yet to read a good reason why bards shouldn't get /medley or something similar. There's no justification why that class should require more clicking/typing to play than any other. Bards are like a swiss army knife - good for many different situations. But they aren't gods, and their utility certainly doesn't jusfity all the extra brainless work players have to do to play them.

When you boil it down, EQ is a strategy game. It's not a twitch game like a FPS. The only talent involved is analyzing the situation and picking the right strat to win. So /medley would not in any way 'break' bards or trivialize them. They still have to pick the right songs to twist and be aware just like any other class would. All it would do is make it so their hands don't hurt anymore.
 
Here's a potential idea: If this is implemented, it ought to be limited to two. Therefore if a bard were to twist manually, he could get that extra song in, whereas if just left on auto, he'd be twisting two songs.

Might work, I dunno. It's a slight draw back from just logging a bard and hitting medley. It would actually make bards zero effort if they were just able to log in, hit the button, and switch off to the next window. I'm not a big fan of automizing to 100% efficiency.
 
I good bard can twist 4 songs non-stop.... Five on the live servers with the instaclick groupmana song item from plane of water. Even twisting 4 or 5 you are gonna skip a note here and there... not add running around with the Main Tank, or the clerics when resists are needed... changing songs from melee dps, to caster DPS, to resists for set up A B or C and do this over a 5 hour raid and I'll give you a guy who is burnt out in less then a month of hardcore raiding..... while bards are fun they will burn out the best of player. Even if I have a /command that allowed twisting I would still be swapping songs... moving around the raid target and the raid/group to keep myself in the best song AoE position, meleeing, tossing some DDs or DoTs.... add slowing, trash pulling and splitting, pickup mezzing... damn I would still be a busy mofo! A command for twisting... Hell yes... Id bard if that was out... It would safe me from dumping gallons of coffee in my gut for late night raids and getting no sleep afterward before work! I vote.....yes!
 
You do make a really good point Ath.

If DCing were not allowed, I would have no problems with giving bards a symphony ability. I'd even be all for it and shit.
 
Well, he is basically saying, that even with symphonies he'll still have alot of trouble DCing, which is what you want. So I hope you enjoy it. :)
 
I assume that DCing is botting? If not correct me.... if so then a good bard would not be able to do it (welll one with any pride) as far as having some worthless hunk of flesh on autofollow singing a broken ever repeating melody? Sure they could do that and be reduced to a constant buff machine but would be worthless in CC, and non-fluid in any changing/dynamic situation.
 
Anyone who suggests bards shouldn't have /symphony probably never played a bard very long. Constant repetitive key pressing isn't challenging, it's tedious (and eventually painful). They don't need to be able to /symphony 4 songs...3 is good. A decent bard can twist three without too much effort (aside from the wear and tear on the wrists/hands).

I really do hope Wiz is working on this. I have to quit my bard until it's added. Just can't take the hand strain any more. Too much typing at work and too much FPS games back in the day... :(

Love the bard class, but dislike the aches and pains. :)
 
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