Bard Twisting
- Thread starter phatsacks
- Start date
why is it a terrible idea? even with symphonies a bard will need to stay on his feet at all times....charm, mez, cc, etc.
also, why should bards not be DCable? clerics and warriors are, and that is the most efficent combo in the high end game.
i think that to play a class really really well, you shou'dn't really be DCing anyways. there is too much to think about using two clients, wether one is sitting or standing, or doing something else like that
I can't see this being a bad thing at all since every bard that posted on this has liked the idea very much. =o
also, why should bards not be DCable? clerics and warriors are, and that is the most efficent combo in the high end game.
i think that to play a class really really well, you shou'dn't really be DCing anyways. there is too much to think about using two clients, wether one is sitting or standing, or doing something else like that
I can't see this being a bad thing at all since every bard that posted on this has liked the idea very much. =o
luciferblack
Dalayan Elder
Making bards "DCable" isn't going to radically affect the game. I already DC a bard with a druid.
As Elitra said, how is it any different than any other class you can DC with?
Really I don't see many people running to DC with a bard over the healer types anyway...
As Elitra said, how is it any different than any other class you can DC with?
Really I don't see many people running to DC with a bard over the healer types anyway...
rab
Dalayan Beginner
I wasn't speaking pragmatically in this thread, ever. It was all hypothetical that, if the game were designed differently, stronger songs would have been better than multiple songs. Twisting ranks with CH, imo, as one of the problems that was never fixed but instead worked around.
I feel it's problematic because of the amount of utility you have with a bard, single client, versus how much you lose when you try to dual client while twisting.
Imagine a partner for that can slow, haste(over-haste!), heal, regen your mana, regen your HP, root mobs, snare mobs, mezz mobs...
Elitra: I totally disagree with you. I've been playing monk/shaman for so long, Most of what I do in game is automatic. It takes me seconds to swap to shaman box, and throw a slow on an add, and root it. I go over to cast slow in like half a second, and then I'm back to my monk, watching my shaman's chat window for red text telling me it's resisted.
I don't see myself being less effective for botting a melee with my shaman. I'm still watching HPs, watching for adds, watching aggro, etc etc.
Imagine a partner for that can slow, haste(over-haste!), heal, regen your mana, regen your HP, root mobs, snare mobs, mezz mobs...
Elitra: I totally disagree with you. I've been playing monk/shaman for so long, Most of what I do in game is automatic. It takes me seconds to swap to shaman box, and throw a slow on an add, and root it. I go over to cast slow in like half a second, and then I'm back to my monk, watching my shaman's chat window for red text telling me it's resisted.
I don't see myself being less effective for botting a melee with my shaman. I'm still watching HPs, watching for adds, watching aggro, etc etc.
Sorta Anadin...sorta. We are all of that...but no one wants to deal with the pain of it. I enjoy a little work here and there, but hey, lots of folks are totally lazy...oh look SYMPHONIES!! HAHA, im JK JK, i like the idea, what if it worked a little like this:
lvl 35is: innate symphony ability-> Bard can twist 2 songs in symphony form.
This would be for you out there that want to DC a bard, theres your haste/resists.....mana regen/haste.....whatever, i dont play a bard.
AA: 'Insert Fancy Name Here' ->6aa:bard can twist 3 songs...YAY. 9more: bard can twist 4....super YAY.
This is the 'fairness' that I see to a method similar to this:
In the begining, you learn your class. Pre 35 you basically get one of every type of song, to some degree, and to exp efficiently, you will learn to master twisting.
From 35+ you can take advantage of the 2 song twisting in TONS of situations. In many exp groups two songs is enough, especially if you want to socialize and afk, etc. OR if you feel like DCing. BUT to get yourself up in the levels you will want to use regular twisting some of the time as well, this is your middle ground where you can choose how you want to play your bard from day to day, group to group, etc etc etc.
AA's: Here is your grand slam. You have made it to the high levels. You obviously know how to twist. You have had a lot of EXP with twisting, up to 35, and then even from 35+(depeding on how good you want to be :roll: ) so here is your chance to spend some AA and make life easy on you.
But then again....my ideas are never good....pick it to peices!
lvl 35is: innate symphony ability-> Bard can twist 2 songs in symphony form.
This would be for you out there that want to DC a bard, theres your haste/resists.....mana regen/haste.....whatever, i dont play a bard.
AA: 'Insert Fancy Name Here' ->6aa:bard can twist 3 songs...YAY. 9more: bard can twist 4....super YAY.
This is the 'fairness' that I see to a method similar to this:
In the begining, you learn your class. Pre 35 you basically get one of every type of song, to some degree, and to exp efficiently, you will learn to master twisting.
From 35+ you can take advantage of the 2 song twisting in TONS of situations. In many exp groups two songs is enough, especially if you want to socialize and afk, etc. OR if you feel like DCing. BUT to get yourself up in the levels you will want to use regular twisting some of the time as well, this is your middle ground where you can choose how you want to play your bard from day to day, group to group, etc etc etc.
AA's: Here is your grand slam. You have made it to the high levels. You obviously know how to twist. You have had a lot of EXP with twisting, up to 35, and then even from 35+(depeding on how good you want to be :roll: ) so here is your chance to spend some AA and make life easy on you.
But then again....my ideas are never good....pick it to peices!
melwin said:
what do you mean exactly? As I understand, as it is, if your main was...say a beastlord, and you had a DCed bard. CURRENTLY: you could be playing your beastlord, and have your bard playing 1 song. Unless you hit autoattack and switched to bard and did your twists.... am I missing something? my plan gives: easier DC twist at 35, and improves it with AA....are you saying there is already a 2 song twist enabled for bards for the purpose of DCing?
millenimy said:
I don't know about others, but I think this is a pretty good idea for implimentation. It's not just giving it away free, and clearly makes the bards learn to twist 3-4 songs when needed all the way until 15aa in say Class (or later) AA section. Good idea man
Ok sypmonies don't really have me all excited... namely cause why am i gunan twist 3 songs? I only do haste and haste adder. why cause lceas is nerfed when ur in battle sence ft is caped during combat and prolly hp regen too. of course i play resists on mobs that cast but there arn't really that many in group zones. Now if all 3 songs are to pop at the same time then i see it as being very nice!! And bards are already good dc guys there snare is godly with a wiz or another nuking class. This is the only way u could really dc a bard cause if u make a healer and dc with a bard u needa be shot cause bards dps with weapons is like... ewww its that bad... So bards can already be dc'd pretty well cause they chain cast there songs so just do snare on the mob once from max range switch to wiz nuke the hell outa it till its dead then push the lceas button on bard and repeate when fm.
luciferblack
Dalayan Elder
/em quits bard.
Okay not really. I do still think it's not unbalancing to give us /symphony at 35 though. I play to have fun. I like playing the bard. I don't like having to mash "5,6,6,7,7,5,5,6,6,7,7" over and over again though to twist three songs. It's not that it's "hard" or "skillful. It's tedious. It really does take a lot of the fun out of a class I like. 4 song twisting? Sure, make it an AA, because that's not a real easy one to do.
I dealt with it on EQL back in the day because it didn't matter what you said to SOE. They'd never change anything. They'd happily take your money and tell you to piss off. Only when their user base started to crash and burn did they do little things to make everyone happy (most of the ideas sucked ass).
I know you can set to auto twist with hotkeys and the like, but those are flakey. Scripting works as well, but I consider scripting to be "cheating".
Please consider giving bards this ability. There's not going to be a huge surge in bard bots following people's main around. Who would pick a bard over a healer? Not many people. Maybe the caster classes? Dunno.
I guess I'm wondering what the concern is here.
Okay not really. I do still think it's not unbalancing to give us /symphony at 35 though. I play to have fun. I like playing the bard. I don't like having to mash "5,6,6,7,7,5,5,6,6,7,7" over and over again though to twist three songs. It's not that it's "hard" or "skillful. It's tedious. It really does take a lot of the fun out of a class I like. 4 song twisting? Sure, make it an AA, because that's not a real easy one to do.
I dealt with it on EQL back in the day because it didn't matter what you said to SOE. They'd never change anything. They'd happily take your money and tell you to piss off. Only when their user base started to crash and burn did they do little things to make everyone happy (most of the ideas sucked ass).
I know you can set to auto twist with hotkeys and the like, but those are flakey. Scripting works as well, but I consider scripting to be "cheating".
Please consider giving bards this ability. There's not going to be a huge surge in bard bots following people's main around. Who would pick a bard over a healer? Not many people. Maybe the caster classes? Dunno.
I guess I'm wondering what the concern is here.
I disagree. If you want to be the most effectient, you should be slowing, cripple, doting, meleeing, canninig, meleeing while you canni is possible to.
Sure you can do your job (what you need to do) DCing. But if you want to play your class really well, try not DCing for the next 3 months and you'll see alot of little things to make your class better that you couldn't do DCing.
I used to DC my warrior, then stopped playing it all together, and only one cliented my shaman for about 4/5 months. I noticed a huge difference in my play style, I meleed while canning, threw DoTs and DDs all the time. You react much better to CCing and rooting adds and such. Then I started DCing my mage, and I see a ton of stuff I used to do that was lost. Playing your character to the max isn't as good as playing two characters since you have the whole healing/tanking situation usually and that makes your options wider.
Bards can't do direct heals can they? And rooting/snaring/mezz you probally couldn't put on the symphony set list since you don't use it all the time (Maybe snare for dot kiting). Haste, regen, Sow could be added to the set list, but I don't see that as overpowering, since they can twist those songs naturally anyways. The main reason I think this is good, is that it gives them the option to chat with the group, not get arthritis, and it, yes, can give them the option to DC, like every other class has.
You didn't really explain why you disagree 4 times, most of your posts stated that you didn't think bards should be DC whores, or be easier to DC (which is completely opinion and no fact, since I could just as well say that they should). But alas, we agree to disagree :roll:
A bard is not as good as how many songs he can twist... Ok say im in elds or something pull a guard what 3 songs am i gunan play that are gunna make a BIG differnce.. i can i can think of 2 tho... thanks it depends on the situation is all all bards are for is haste, resists, and mez the caster thats it. Now if we wana start talking about making bards a better class and more fun to play lets talk about making weapons with modifiers on it...
luciferblack
Dalayan Elder
Raherin said:
I agree. :-D
Elitra: I'm going to try to say this without sounding like an elitist. I have, on many occasions, dropped Janbot and played just Anadin. Most of the time I did big groups, in fact, while Inkjet was playing heavily. Please don't apply your experience to me. I am a very efficient DCer, and I am willing to say I control both chars to 90% of what I could do with just one.
Bards can't heal directly, no, that was a mistake.
it is my opinion that bards with symphonies would be too easy to DC versus the amount of utility they bring. If all you have to do to run a bard at 100% in a duo is switch over and click a symphony button, and watch for missed notes, that's overpowering.
Bards can step in for alot of things -- too many for them to be DCable, IMO.
Bards can't heal directly, no, that was a mistake.
it is my opinion that bards with symphonies would be too easy to DC versus the amount of utility they bring. If all you have to do to run a bard at 100% in a duo is switch over and click a symphony button, and watch for missed notes, that's overpowering.
Bards can step in for alot of things -- too many for them to be DCable, IMO.
luciferblack
Dalayan Elder
Anadin said:
Bard with symphony as DC is no easier than a cleric as DC. As for utility... that's ALL a bard is right from day one. They ARE utility.
Anadin said:
And all a DC warrior needs to do is hit taunt and slam. And all a DC cleric needs to do is hit heal or cure.
Why are you so afraid of bards being "easy"? Do you want to talk about it? I'm here for you man...it's gonna be okay.