Bard Twisting

Yes, Warriors and other melees are pretty easy to DC too.

Yes, Clerics and other healers are pretty easy to DC.

But Bards aren't. They bring way more to the table than a warrior or a cleric. You admit it yourself - bards are all utility. Making that utility so easily accessable, in my opinion, would be silly.
 
Ok, shaman is a wonderful utility, slow, cripple, malo, best stat buff line in the game, sow, etc, etc.

I suggest that shaman be made a non-DCable class, since they have really good utilitys such as CC, slowing, healing, damage, buffs, padding. Since, as you said, Janbot is very easy to master, for very little effort. I think that if your considering your duoed shaman a bot, your not fully respecting the class, which is fine in it's own sense, but you certainly are not looking for ways to make your shaman above just a bot.
90% control is pretty instense. Especially depending on what situation, but I'll take your word for it.

If shamans (clerics too I assume) are going to be as easy as you say they are, then I 100% think that bards deserve a little break. =\
 
<sigh>

Not even shaman bring the amount of versatile utility that bards do.

It's not "easy" to DC. It's a learned skill. 99% of the combat situations in EQ are archetypal. I've been playing for 6 years, and I know those archetypes pretty damn well.

All I'm saying is that making a class with all the utility of a bard, which can be controlled with hotkeys and stand-off-ish attention, is not cool.

Janseth is the bot, by the way. Anadin is the main. I often reference to myself as Janseth & Anadin because it feels natural. Janseth was my main for quite a while on WR, until I realised I like the shaman class better.
 
They don't, but they are close enough. Especially for the fact they can help make an amazing DCable combo with any class in the game.
 
First, I'll say I never DC'd other than with one toon sitting in a safe corner to throw an occasional buff. Anyway, a couple of years back I tried playing a bard.

I thought it was a super fun class! Unfortunately, by lv 14 I had to delete it because of the pain in my hands caused by twisting songs. :(

My opinion is that /melody would be a welcome addition for players like me.
 
ok ok i got a fix.. look at the rules does it says bards can't be dual cliented... no does it say anyone can have 2 clients or whatever up yea.. so if somone wants to dc a bard let them... As a bard tho i can't see a very viable partner to dc with a bard and just be those 2... can u? most i can think of is bard/wiz with bard snare witch u can already do... bards dont' help mana go up any faster.. ft is capped at like 23 in fights u can get that from won and jb so no need for bard mana regen and their heal omg like 75hps a tick maybe it ain't gunna bring up bards being dc gods...
 
Timir - You're wrong.

75hp /tick is pretty huge, and although it's no substitute for a real healer, it would be insanely beneficial. I don't think that's even the right number.

Bards do help mana regen. Bard mana songs are stackable on FT, JB, and self buffs.

Of course bards can be dual cliented already. My point is that making them an easily DCable class would be unbalancing.

Elitra: My point is this. DCing a shaman (which I will admit does bring alot to the table, which is why I said they were DC whores already) takes time, practice, and skill. DCing a bard with symphonies would require a push of a button. you could cope with alot of situations if you set up your symphonies right, and I think that's unbalanced.

What can you easily do with a shaman bot? Haste, buff, throw an occasional heal.

What can you easily do with a bard bot? play one song. haste, resist, mana regen, whatever.

If bards can twist 4 songs with the touch of a key, that is an incredible boost to their DC power. and I really think it'd be too much.
 
Why is it an issuse that bards should be DCing or not? If someone DCed a bard and a wizard, what would be the difference if the bard just grouped with another wizard? It would have the same results, symphonies or not.

Compared to warrior/cleric, I cannot see bards being overbalanced because they can DC with this. If ridiculas combos such as healer/melee are allowed to DC, I have absoltutely no problem letting bards have better DC-ability.

As for bard mana regen, regen caps at 30 from spells and songs while your on the agro list. And it caps at 60 if your not on the agro list. If your buffed with the best mana spells, the bard song won't be doing much. It would be great for medding however. If you have JB, WON, and beastlord buff, bard mana regen will be helping very, very little. As i said, it would only really help meddnig out of combat. In most groups, you are usually trying to not med, or med as little as possible by keeping constant pulls, which defaults most characters to being on the agro list most of the time.
 
Bleh. I believe Anadin holds bards as the last bastion of non-dc-ability. Every other class gets botted to high heaven, and thus the main player becomes less necessary. When I made Rabb, I thought "Clerics are necessary and I will always be wanted for groups." While usually true, I can be replaced by a bot very easily. The same could be said of tanks. We have a sk bot that is amazing and a pally bot that still holds his own despite not being geared for a while. So if you were a new tank, you'd be leveling/AAing/raiding a while before you're better than Khal or Gron.

But I digress -- a bard is not dc-able, which means a new bard can get a group and feel productive. I can't tell you the amount of times, when Rabb was lower, that we had a healer outside the group doing most of the legwork. It sucked. Can't say that about bards. And, I'm just guessing, that is how Anadin would like it to stay.

Or I could be totally off base.

(If we had the server capacity, I wouldn't want DCing anymore... but it's a necessary evil.)
 
Anadin said:
Timir - You're wrong.

75hp /tick is pretty huge, and although it's no substitute for a real healer, it would be insanely beneficial. I don't think that's even the right number.

Bards do help mana regen. Bard mana songs are stackable on FT, JB, and self buffs.

Of course bards can be dual cliented already. My point is that making them an easily DCable class would be unbalancing.

Elitra: My point is this. DCing a shaman (which I will admit does bring alot to the table, which is why I said they were DC whores already) takes time, practice, and skill. DCing a bard with symphonies would require a push of a button. you could cope with alot of situations if you set up your symphonies right, and I think that's unbalanced.

What can you easily do with a shaman bot? Haste, buff, throw an occasional heal.

What can you easily do with a bard bot? play one song. haste, resist, mana regen, whatever.

If bards can twist 4 songs with the touch of a key, that is an incredible boost to their DC power. and I really think it'd be too much.
Click to expand...

OK, L65 bard, twisting 4 buff songs and doing nothing else:

Song of the Blademaster - 60% haste, a little ATK/DS
Lcea's - 23 mana/tick, 66hp/tick (best lute)
Psalm of the Four - 75 resists.
Warchant of the Tribes - 20% overhaste.

Now you have:

80% haste
20 DS
23 mana
66 hp
75 to all resists

ENC + Druid buffs that last 1 hour and are permable give:

75% haste
45 DS
26 mana
20 hp
50 to all resists

So either you can just get the chanter buffs perma'd and have a druid, losing 44hp/tick and 25 to all resists in exchange for having a druid healer, or you win those 44hp/25 resists, but get no druid.

So...

um...

Yeah, I don't see the issue here.
 
Wiz said:
Anadin said:
Timir - You're wrong.

75hp /tick is pretty huge, and although it's no substitute for a real healer, it would be insanely beneficial. I don't think that's even the right number.

Bards do help mana regen. Bard mana songs are stackable on FT, JB, and self buffs.

Of course bards can be dual cliented already. My point is that making them an easily DCable class would be unbalancing.

Elitra: My point is this. DCing a shaman (which I will admit does bring alot to the table, which is why I said they were DC whores already) takes time, practice, and skill. DCing a bard with symphonies would require a push of a button. you could cope with alot of situations if you set up your symphonies right, and I think that's unbalanced.

What can you easily do with a shaman bot? Haste, buff, throw an occasional heal.

What can you easily do with a bard bot? play one song. haste, resist, mana regen, whatever.

If bards can twist 4 songs with the touch of a key, that is an incredible boost to their DC power. and I really think it'd be too much.
Click to expand...

OK, L65 bard, twisting 4 buff songs and doing nothing else:

Song of the Blademaster - 60% haste, a little ATK/DS
Lcea's - 23 mana/tick, 66hp/tick (best lute)
Psalm of the Four - 75 resists.
Warchant of the Tribes - 20% overhaste.

Now you have:

80% haste
20 DS
23 mana
66 hp
75 to all resists

ENC + Druid buffs that last 1 hour and are permable give:

75% haste
45 DS
26 mana
20 hp
50 to all resists

So either you can just get the chanter buffs perma'd and have a druid, losing 44hp/tick and 25 to all resists in exchange for having a druid healer, or you win those 44hp/25 resists, but get no druid.

So...

um...

Yeah, I don't see the issue here.
Click to expand...

That's kinda like saying clerics need a healing upgrade because a druid and a shaman can heal as well as a single cleric. :?
 
Wiz said:
You can perma druid/shaman heals?

Awesome, I want one.
Click to expand...

You...can't perma cleric heals either. Permanence is completely irrelevant in my example and I'd like you to explain why it isn't if you disagree. :)
 
kathgar said:
I can twobox a twisting bard, not exactly brain surgery
Click to expand...

No, but you need to pay more attention than any other class.

Most things in EQ really aren't brain surgery, fyi.
 
You guys are missing the point completely.

I'm saying that it would take no skill to DC a bard to very high efficiency with symphonies. The same is true of melees - all you have to do is press auto attack, and leave the window, and make sure they don't go out of range.

But melees don't bring to the table what a bard does.

bards have a ton of utility. Making that accessable to a keystroke is dumb.

Rabb: I don't hold bards as the last bastion of anti-DCing. I just think that it would be too easy compared to how much they bring.
 
Wiz said:
You can perma druid/shaman heals?

Awesome, I want one.
Click to expand...

Offtopic: how about a heal spell with a duration? when the duration runs out, the hps go away! it would be a neat necro spell.

KAS
 
melwin said:
Kasreyn said:
Wiz said:
You can perma druid/shaman heals?

Awesome, I want one.
Click to expand...

Offtopic: how about a heal spell with a duration? when the duration runs out, the hps go away! it would be a neat necro spell.

KAS
Click to expand...

Kinda like HOTs? :p
Click to expand...

no, when the spell runs out you lose the hps that the spell gave you. better hope you have an alternate healer..
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom