Bard Mod Item Progression

First off Zaela, I know your views as a Item designer do not believe that "all mods are dumb, basically" this is a quote, but they do add flexibility. I believe that there will be integration into Kunark that will allow bards more of a flexible feel to their mod choices. Because yes, you get faced with issues like this. Where bards feel that they will have to hunt down lower zones/long quests to find a better mod, so that they can finally replace an item. This is where more integration of mods (Which I know your trying to do, and are doing a decent job with), but also all mods come in handy. If a bard is able to get a decent all mod along a tier that will drop them .1 or so, they don't feel like they are restrained into being forced to use a lower tier item.

It is difficult to decide where to place these all items and what mod should exactly be on them for the tier.(Parsing is a good idea here, and I'm guaranteeing you that there will be several bards that are willing to put in time and effort to support this cause. Such as Woldaff and the Burning War Drum, he did an excellent job with that.)

Now, True instruments are a "fun" idea. But it's going to be extremely situational. Adding hps/mana is a good idea so that the person using it doesn't get hit hard by the loss of their weapons. Although besides the encounters they are good for, it's going to be a bag item.

So basically there can't be too much judgment until the release of Kunark. But until then, yes things are slightly off with the mods and where they lie.
 
Last edited:
Zaela said:
Concubine's Tambourine mod hasn't changed... Plus, there are no real drums past tier 3 trash other than Burning War Drum. This will change in the future.
Click to expand...

The thing is, the change to actual instruments is like changing all DI 5 items for casters to DI 4 ones as at 65 most bards will have a dancers tambourine or what have you and then telling them eventually there will be something to raid so they can get back to where they were before.

Also if the wiki is to be believed, the concubine used to have a 2.6 like the dragonskin and a pristine dancer's, and is now 2.5
 
Since history on the concubine hasn't been changed since June 5th, I don't think the Wiki is accurate on mods right now. I'll check some fomelos if bards have things equipped and fix it over the next couple days.

EDIT: Hell, people bitching haven't even put some items ON the Wiki. PM me with your fomelo if you have an item equipped on a character, so I can do links to full items if not there. Will update bard mod main page.
 
Last edited:
Don't use the wiki to base an argument, use the posted list
(Bravo on the drums btw, looks good excluding the huge gap)
 
Last edited:
iaeolan said:
Don't use the wiki to base an argument, use the posted list
(Bravo on the drums btw, looks good excluding the huge gap)
Click to expand...

You misunderstand, concubine prior was 2.6 according to the wiki and now according to the updated Tome of Knowledge post is 2.5. Since I can't see the old instrument list in the Tome of Knowledge I can't compare the old wiki stats but seeing as how dragonskin and dancer's were listed correctly I'm going to assume it was as well.
 
I'm too sick with the flu to formulate a total and coherent post right now, but I can say with certainty that all/all mods should stay as being significantly worse than worn mods, and worn mods will be significantly worse than instrument mods. (because wielding instruments will lower your melee dps considerably, and worn modifiers make you sacrifice other items when making the judgement call of which item to wear in what slot.)

All/all mods are like having every focus effect on one item for a caster - it is a really dumb idea unless it's at rank II or III. If I had my way I think I really would do away with them completely. Aside from the dumb overpowerdness that can result, it also prompts item designers to come up with a totally false notion that all mods are made equal - when in reality percussion and singing are much much more valuable than strings and brass. This leads to things like making armor sets with all same mods on them.

Aside from the logical argument for making them worse than same-tier instruments and worn items (see above) Wiz has categorically stated (and issued an imperative to the designers) that it should be so. Hence, the balancing. I am happy to see that the critics of the new mods agree it is a logical progression (ie linear).

I am super happy to see that Zae has found a way to work backwards (now with a real sense of logic in what mods go where) to fill in many many instrument holes (now with a real sense of where the holes were!) and give a lot more variety, which is something bards have been begging for for a very long time. No, it's not a big boost to end-game bards, who still have slightly more limited offerings in their current 5 total encounters that still give upgrades consistently (big surprise there) - but that's just one tier out of 10 (not to mention the 1-65 leveling set). I hope lower tier bards appreciate these changes as much as the rest of us missed them on the way up.

All in all, great changes and a BIG thank you to Zaela, the bestest bard item designer EVER.

One note on stats offsetting mods - generally it's not something that I'd like to see, and I'd prefer a much more linear progression where the stats on the progression work linearly too. I would like to suggest that maybe the level 1-65 instruments, which suffer a lot from this, get a little more love in terms of hps/acs/mana/stats/something. I'm specifically looking at items like the Concubine's Tambourine - just because bards do better dot kiting damage doesn't mean they should lose all thier hp/ac for the removal of both my primary and secondary (keep in mind they are already losing out on all thier melee dps). I don't know why the 1-65 mods have this problem more than the others, but I don't see a particular reason for it.

Finally, let's all hope and pray that these changes also can mean that instrument usage in general will get looked at so that commonly used songs can actually be modified by their instrument type and Strings and Brass and Wind mods can get a little bit more love. For instance, if wind mods would affect the resist check for the corresponding mezmerize songs that would be great.

Okay that was more than I meant to type. Afk to puke and sleep.
 
I currently have items from the following zones/encounters:
3 from Mephar
4 from Thaz2
2 from Thaz1
3 from Emberflow
2 from Upper Thaz
2 from ToT (Generals)-1 of these has a bard mod (brass, low priority)
2 from Sanctum (Gongo)
1 from IP-All mod, low mod, mid priority
1 from Lower Thaz-singing mod, singing, high priority
1 from Well

As you can see, that is from more than 5 encounters, and they are obviously upgrades to one of the top bards. If the very high end is still being reworked, then disregard what I have to say, but otherwise, bards are again stuck to using most of their Thaz set armor and a few pieces from PoFrost/lower ToT with marginal stats. I could swap in my PoNightmare Tier 4 or so Drum of the Shapeshifter for a 2.0 mod, but I would figure there would be more options throughout the tiers for me to use then just that. Sanctum, Thaz himself, upper ToT and most other tiers provide casters with level 7 focus with great stats, and most casters are not forced to go back tiers to grab a focus (at least a non elemental focus, since most of those are still semi rare). I went through and Fomelo'ed most of the higher end bards to see if they took advantage of the new "variety" we have with mods, but most were still just wearing their same Thaz gear that got boosted, and maybe dumped off Puppet for other items.

With all of my banked items, I gained one with a wind mod (mid priority mod) and had absolutely zero percussion mods added to any of the gear I have on, bagged, or banked, and that is a lot of gear. Yes, the changes were in the right direction, and if they are continued, then I will be ecstatic, but as it is now, nothing really changed for most high end bards who have been the ones stuck with the same mods for forever anyways.

Maybe bard mod variety shouldn't be as good as caster foci variety, but it shouldn't pigeonhole us into using items from tiers below.
 
Instrument Mod page now reflects the ToK post. All items have their mod listed on them, in some fashion (okay, so cold meds make my formatting not perfect).

Some items did not have a Wiki entry, and I'm not fomeloing 100 bards to find 'em. :p
 
I guess I will just wait for Ikisith. It would be nice to get a few other mods at the high end, but maybe I will just wait and see. We have banged our heads on the Mistborn for a long time, and either it isn't working properly at the time, or we just fail because the fight is super hard. However, I think the item is hard enough to get that it really shouldn't "take up" a slot (for progression) for an essential mod to get.

As for the other perc mod, it is from an encounter that is SUPER hard to get to, and has only been completed once (end of the Vah quest). Maybe my theories of progression differ from some, but I think it stinks to have our best and most important modifier be on encounters of that magnitute.

Also, I did not ask for an instrument mod to drop off of every high end encounter, but from a few of those encounters to give the high end bards (top 10-15 bards) a few more options.

Your work is always appreciated, and please don't take my suggestions as a slap in the face. I just want a bit more variety at my tier as well is all.

Edit: If you do make a perc mod on one of those encounters, the 2.3 slot seems fairly unused as the Flamesong is the only item in that slot and is hardly ever used by bards who have it. Also, as hard as Sanctum/Thaz/Generals are, the other perc mods to get the 2.4 mods are MUCH harder to get to/beat.
 
Last edited:
Is concubines 2.5 now? I understand that mods were adjusted, but why downgrade the "best" mod thats available right now (can't really count burning war drum.. this was downed by 0.1 too or by the way??)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom