Bard Mod Item Progression

Nodnal

Nodnal

Dalayan Elder
A long time ago, many bard mods, including Thaz armor, were nerfed. When this happened, the community was told that bard items throughout the tiers would have instrument modifiers added to them to smooth out the item progression. This has not happened since then, however, there have been very few items in some of the new planes with some bard mods (not many at all). In the last few tiers, there are hardly any at all. You have Chaplet of Fiends with a brass mod and Stoneculler with an all mod. There is also a percussion mod on a hat that drops during the final encounter of the Vah quest, and given the scope of that quest, I do not think it is fair to use that item as far as progression goes (same could be said about Stoneculler, but I will let that item slide since several bards have it).

We have not seen a lot of loot in Sanctum, but from what we have seen, and what I fear, is that their will still be a lack of bard mods in there as well. It seems that each zone has 0-1 items with bard mods on them, whereas caster foci may be scattered on several items in each zone, giving casters more options.

A full revamp of items is not what I am looking for, but looking at some of the weaker items in the high end and low end zones, and maybe adding a mod to them to help make them more popular or more used may be a good way of going about it.

As far as I can remember, there are no bard mods in DHK or SE at all. The lower tiered bards would benefit greatly from these mods, and it would help them figure out which mods are more important to them, and which they can drop for a better item.

I am willing to help look at items and determine where bard mods may be added if there is a Dev out there willing to take the time out. This may be something that has to be done after Kunark, but I really feel it should be done sometime in the near future.

A good example of the lack of items would be looking at myself. I have some super high end gear, yet I lack many of the crucial mods and still rock out a lower tiered IP item. The lack of bard mod progression is quite disturbing to say the least.
 
Your gonna have to put faith in us on a occasion.

Someone very qualified for the task has reviewed everything, and smoothed out the progression. Changes will go in when we deem them ready too. Ikisith item progression will also fill holes for the higher end stuff.
 
example

there are boots from PoF off ambassador of hakim with percussion mod on them that didnt before.
even item name was changed from scaly boots to rattling scale logs. dont know what the mod is but just an example.
 
mods?

I kinda like how you cant get all the mods you want from one zone..
goto rust get your 2.5 wind..
goto tot get ur 2.3 brass..
pofire has a 2.0 drums if you dont have thaz or the uber sexy vah helm
goto pofrost get your 2.1 singing sword..
isnt there a singing mod shield that drops in sanctum?

althought i dont see many stringed mods other then 1hand from tot chests.
 
The singing mod item is a shield, which makes it so situational, I wouldn't count it towards the item progression (I use it on 1 fight). However, singing has the sword and gloves. Stringed has basically nothing. Percussion has a few lower tiered items here and there. Brass has Thaz arms and ToT hat. Wind is Coda and Thaz arms with maybe a few lower tiered items in there. All mods are limited to IP and ToT quest weapon. Other than those two, all instrument mods are non-existent as far as the high-end goes.

We will see how Kunark is...but at the moment, the high end and low end of current content is fairly barren.
 
Zaela said:
Just to completely contradict myself, I'm looking at adding upwards of 50 instrument mods to currently-obtainable items through the tiers, pending the finalization of the review. Sleep well.
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Wow that's exciting!

Certainly, there's nothing wrong with multiple options for instrument mods for each tier . . I know the devs don't say "oh I already have a Mana Con mod at tier 5, we don't need any more". So long as the mods are within clear progression I'm all for it!
 
Zaela said:
I jumped the gun a bit and put the new maybe-not-quite-finalized instrument mod progression in. The ToK Bard Instruments post has been updated to reflect the many newly added mods. Some mods have been reduced, partly, as I understand it, to take pristine mods into consideration and partly for a smoother, more standardized progression. A few mods have been increased here and there. Note that these are all still subject to change. In any case, I hope bard don't mind a little more selection!
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Coda and flute of the fribbit still have the same mod before pristine :(
 
Zaela said:
I jumped the gun a bit and put the new maybe-not-quite-finalized instrument mod progression in. The ToK Bard Instruments post has been updated to reflect the many newly added mods. Some mods have been reduced, partly, as I understand it, to take pristine mods into consideration and partly for a smoother, more standardized progression. A few mods have been increased here and there. Note that these are all still subject to change. In any case, I hope bard don't mind a little more selection!
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The ToT/Sanctum items still seem to be lacking many mods at all. Stoneculler/Chaplet in ToT, and just Vorrell in Sanctum. In that same tier, Thazeran himself has no gear with mods. Are the higher end mods still being finalized?

Also, Puppet and Cutlass have the exact same mod but are from two fairly different tiers.
 
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While I, along with most other bards, greatly appreciate the increased effort in adding additional bard instruments throughout the tiers, I feel that a lot of the items that were changed (in many cases, drastic reductions &/or improvements) don't necessarily fit with the stats of the item itself.

Owning many of these items myself, I was under the impression that the stats themselves also came into consideration when balancing the mod at that tier. As they are now reworked, it seems to be a far far too linear progression, giving hugely overpowered mods to already stat/hp heavy items while, as far as I can tell, greatly reducing the mods on items or keeping them unchanged on items that already have many penalties in place (ex. low ac, low hp, - saves, extreme rarity) to compensate for their *originally* [although no longer, with this new balance] high mods.

I also agree that there should be a discrepancy in mods between the cutlass and the puppet.


As it is now setup, there is much less incentive for a bard to do all the work to obtain a Stoneculler. Your new setup makes it extremely more beneficial to a bard to simply obtain single mod items from ToT encounters and obtain a much stronger total mod setup.

While I agree with the necessity for new items, I think that some of these mods should be looked at carefully, especially in consideration with the stats and rarity of the item they are now on. There is no variety in mods through the tiers anymore - it is now simply a line that goes straight up. Just skip the lower content and kill the highest stuff - there is absolutely no reason anymore not to.
 
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Yeah, I was running out the door when I made this post. At first I was pretty bummed that All mods were being nerfed. If they were all removed with other mods on them, then I guess that is fine, but they are kind of nice to fill the holes of things you do not have.

I would definitely change Stoneculler to something else. I did miss the Anklet and the Veil having mods. Yashira is a joke, but so is Versikol, so I just assumed CoD was lower since it is easier to get to than IP. Taeshlin is much harder than Versikol, but I guess someone else determined the tiers. Iae makes a good point that it may be balanced since it is a weapon.

Here are a few of my complaints still, though. These mods basically make regular instruments even more useless than they already are (this is a small complaint, though, since I haven't used hand held instruments save for Burning Drum in a LONG time).

Another complaint is that items only get better and better mods. Why not have higher tiered items have WORSE mods than the items from a tier below, just to give us more variety? As it is now, I will probably have to go back and farm Thaz legs because they are much better than my Well legs (also, because perc mods are so dear to bards yet they are so rare). Do we really want bards to have to use items from lower tiers and not get to use new toys from higher tiered zones? Even having an item with a 2.0 or 2.1 perc mod in the ToT/Emberflow/Sanctum/Thaz encounters range would be nice (again, it does NOT have to always progress up, as long as the item has good stats, a smaller level focus, or in this case bard mod, is a nice addition and allows bards to use higher tiered items.

As it is now, there are two high end perc mods. One comes from the end of the Vah quest that has only been completed once. The other comes from an encounter that has never even been beaten (unless I remember those shoulders' name incorrectly). Perc mods are basically Damage Inc/Affliction Inc compared to Wizards/Necros, and both of those classes can get TONS of level 6/7 foci throughout the tiers.

I am typing this out quickly, so it is thrown together poorly, but I do not mind seeing All mods phased out, but I would love to see more items with just bard mods in general. Even if those mods take a step back from items in lower tiers. Also, change Stoneculler so it will be more of a benefit (and Percussion is the way to go).

Let me know if my suggestion to add more mods that don't necessarily get bigger than their predecessors is too vague. I can explain in more detail via PMs.
 
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Nodnal said:
Yeah, I was running out the door when I made this post. At first I was pretty bummed that All mods were being nerfed. If they were all removed with other mods on them, then I guess that is fine, but they are kind of nice to fill the holes of things you do not have.

I would definitely change Stoneculler to something else. I did miss the Anklet and the Veil having mods. Yashira is a joke, but so is Versikol, so I just assumed CoD was lower since it is easier to get to than IP. Taeshlin is much harder than Versikol, but I guess someone else determined the tiers. Iae makes a good point that it may be balanced since it is a weapon.

Here are a few of my complaints still, though. These mods basically make regular instruments even more useless than they already are (this is a small complaint, though, since I haven't used hand held instruments save for Burning Drum in a LONG time).

Another complaint is that items only get better and better mods. Why not have higher tiered items have WORSE mods than the items from a tier below, just to give us more variety? As it is now, I will probably have to go back and farm Thaz legs because they are much better than my Well legs (also, because perc mods are so dear to bards yet they are so rare). Do we really want bards to have to use items from lower tiers and not get to use new toys from higher tiered zones? Even having an item with a 2.0 or 2.1 perc mod in the ToT/Emberflow/Sanctum/Thaz encounters range would be nice (again, it does NOT have to always progress up, as long as the item has good stats, a smaller level focus, or in this case bard mod, is a nice addition and allows bards to use higher tiered items.

As it is now, there are two high end perc mods. One comes from the end of the Vah quest that has only been completed once. The other comes from an encounter that has never even been beaten (unless I remember those shoulders' name incorrectly). Perc mods are basically Damage Inc/Affliction Inc compared to Wizards/Necros, and both of those classes can get TONS of level 6/7 foci throughout the tiers.

I am typing this out quickly, so it is thrown together poorly, but I do not mind seeing All mods phased out, but I would love to see more items with just bard mods in general. Even if those mods take a step back from items in lower tiers. Also, change Stoneculler so it will be more of a benefit (and Percussion is the way to go).

Let me know if my suggestion to add more mods that don't necessarily get bigger than their predecessors is too vague. I can explain in more detail via PMs.
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actually their is a veil from PoFrost with a 2.0 percussion mod. fomelo Cherysh for it.
 
These changes seem to be going towards a good direction. Having more options with a more progressive scale, still taking into account instruments vs standard items, lessening the power of "all instruments" mods.
The changes the last person asked about seem custom-tailored ; maybe there will be tweaks to do about this, since it's a massive change but I think staff did a good job here after reviewing the items a bit - of course I don't have the knowledge about where everything drops though. It's also fun to hear of an item dropped off an encounter that has never been beaten - I guess some people have hax insight. [isn't that 3 high end mods btw ?]
 
Wasn't the point to add variety instead of forcing it? A lot of great changes but the percussion table has really left me wondering. Percussion is a main source of bard non-melee damage, the trade-off being the best mods were on actual drums so your melee was very diminished / or non-existent if you were at range. I can understand not wanting bards to be able to get one of the best percussion mods in the game from the castle of Eldenals but you didn't actually put anything in to replace these mods leaving an even bigger gap and making it feel more like a nerf.
 
Keirga/Reinhardt said:
actually their is a veil from PoFrost with a 2.0 percussion mod. fomelo Cherysh for it.
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Again, I would have to farm lower end zones to get upgrades on Felyn. This is irritating for me and for the guilds below who have targets stolen from higher end guilds who seek to get one or two loots for mains in a clear.

That is why I proposed the idea that we should add smaller mods to existing gear and give bards more options (even if they have to take a reduction in instrument mods) throughout the tiers, instead of being forced to wear gear even after it is obsolete.

That veil is very good, and can easily be an upgrade to Nashtav's, however, I feel that me having to back gear just to grab an essential mod (better than a 1.7 mod) is not the right way to go. Adding 2.1 or 2.2 percussion mods on ToT/Thazeran/Sanctum loots, etc, will give bards great items with a small mod on it. The way it is now, we will still be forced to use lower tiered items to maximize our class, which was the whole point of trying to change the progression of bard mods.

I really do not think it would be game breaking to add a 2.2 wind mod to a Santcum item, or a 2.1 percussion mod to a Thazeran/Emberflow item, or a 2.1 stringed mod to a ToT item. It would give us more flexibility, and would not force bards to choose one item and stick with it for 5 tiers (like Puppet used to be).
 
I agree that it would be a lot of items to add at once, I guess I am just bummed about having all of this awesome high tiered armor that will get bagged for lesser gear once I go farm the lower zones. Yes, it might be hard to tell someone why the item has a lower mod at a higher tier, but it is the same reason some really good items have lower haste, or some really nice items have a lower level spell foci but has great stats otherwise.

Maybe I am just comparing it to casters too much, since they get a TON of flexibility and choices compared to bards. I went from being stuck on using Puppet for 4 tiers to now being stuck on using Thaz Tower class loot or PoFrost loot while I am in Sanctum. Just makes me kind of sad that I got the high end gear that I will have to swap out for lower gear is all.

It would be a hard change, but I would still really like to see it in. It would give more flexibility and would make it so bards are no so dependent like we were before the change, and like how we are afterward.

Am I a bit biased in this suggestion? Of course, everyone is biased when they make a suggestion. I am just baffled how one of the top end bards has some of the best raid gear in the game, yet he lacks some crucial mods and only really has one worth mentioning in the situational brass mod.
 
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