Bane DMG - too many types

Bump + Slightly modified list

  1. Humanoid - young race + ancient race + reptile/amphibian (iksar/froglok, why wouldn't they be ancient race?) + humanoid monsters (it is right there in the name)
  2. Nature - insect/arachnid + reptile/amphibian (others) + nature
  3. Monster - or rolled into the next category, honestly I cannot think of what is monster bane in game atm.
  4. Supernatural - magical + chaotic
  5. Construct/clockwork
  6. Elemental- lesser elemental + planar elemental
  7. Undead
  8. Greatkin
  9. Dragonkin
8-9 banes. Minimal effort minus dividing up reptile/amphibians.
 
Patch notes from the last time bane was adjusted:

Bane:

In the next (hopefully!) patch, the following Bane changes shall go live.

First off, we have consolidated the old body type categories, and updated around 11,000 NPCs to the following:

Humanoid Monster: Unintelligent things in a generally humanoid shape. Examples: Sivakians and Paw Cats

Humans/Orcs/Ancients (These are the ancient races of Dalaya. This includes Humans, Orcs, Lodrish and any other race that has been on Dalaya since soon after the Great War. The one exception being Iksar.)

Undead: All undead, including sentient undead like vampires

Giant/Trolls/Ogres: Giants...trolls.... and ogres. Also cyclops!

Construct/Clockwork: Constructs like golems and clockworks.

Chaotic/Corrupted: Chaotic beings like Akhevan and Earth Terror and corrupted creatures like Badland's animals.

The Young Races: Elves, Erudite, Barbarian, Halfling, Gnome. All races that came from Humans.

Lesser Elemental: Lesser world elementals, and trash in the elemental planes.

Reptiles/Amphibeans: Iksars, Frogloks, Basalisks, Snakes, tadpoles, etc.

Magical: Wisps, torrents, other things obviously held together by magic.

Sylvan/Animal: Pumas, Flowers, Fungus men, Tigers, Bats, Birds, Fairies Etc

Insect/Arachnid: All insects like mosquitos and spiders!

Monster: Monsterous beasts like griffons, manticores, centaurs. Anything half animal, half
something else.

Planar Elemental/Elemental Gods: Bosses in the planes, and other elementals tied directly to the gods.

Dragons/Dragonkin: Dragons, Wyverns, Wurms, etc.
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Nwaij said:
Frogloks were created by Malath, so they are not ancient at all.
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I was copy/pasting Haenir there, again. The age of the race, Malath, and the Land of Magic is not something I am familiar with, nor am I certain time had the same meaning in such a place (like that rift from Star Trek Generations). Regards, thank you for your signature nitpicking.

Slightly modified list 2.0

  1. Humanoid - young race + ancient race
  2. Reptile/amphibian - separated from nature and other humanoids for balancey reasons since killing Iksar is such a big deal
  3. Nature - [insect/arachnid + nature]
  4. Monster - [monster + humanoid monster]
  5. Supernatural - [magical + chaotic]
  6. Constructs/clockwork
  7. Elemental- [lesser elemental + planar elemental]
  8. Undead
  9. Greatkin
  10. Dragonkin
10 banes. 10 is a good number for things be they Amendments, Commandments, or Banements. I mean, Bane types. Zero complex modification to the existing bane system, just merging some really similar bane types. This change would do melees a solid and clear up some fuzzy types, like Half Elves.
 
Bane is far too complex for what it adds to the game. Anything to simplify it would be amazing.
 
This is still a thing that is bad.

Also, I think it would be nice if Rogues had a Jayla's Insight lite button that just told them body type so they could contribute something when there are no traps, locks, or targeting to do.
 
donfolstar3 said:
Also, I think it would be nice if Rogues had a Jayla's Insight lite button that just told them body type so they could contribute something when there are no traps, locks, or targeting to do.
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You mean this?

The main annoyance with bane damage is constantly swapping items if you want to max dps as a melee (just as bad if not worse for ranjas, I imagine). I suppose not caring about max dps is the easiest solution.

Personally, I'd wish to see bane removed from armor and shifted into a archetype tome line which you only gain exp in from defeating foes of the correct body type. The logic of becoming better at killing a particular type of creature through repeat experience with its type makes so much more sense to me than the "this shiny piece of armor lets me hit dragons harder" logic.
 
hey slaariel can you change lifetaps to bane enhancement like you wanted to years ago just to fuck with everybody.
 
Haenir said:
You mean this?

The main annoyance with bane damage is constantly swapping items if you want to max dps as a melee (just as bad if not worse for ranjas, I imagine). I suppose not caring about max dps is the easiest solution.

Personally, I'd wish to see bane removed from armor and shifted into a archetype tome line which you only gain exp in from defeating foes of the correct body type. The logic of becoming better at killing a particular type of creature through repeat experience with its type makes so much more sense to me than the "this shiny piece of armor lets me hit dragons harder" logic.
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Umm, similar to that item? I'm not sure if you're suggesting that everyone should "just go farm this rare item and constantly equip and unequip it to use this ability which aggros mobs" (you know, the classic FU kind of response) or showing that the ability is already in game so giving it to a class that lacks flavor is no big deal (the reasonable response).

I would point out that casters do not suffer similarly from that kind of item swapping, but don't want to invite another nonsensical response from cartographers.

Archetype tomes would be a good fix- though one that if implemented would be a nice way to show off the AA enhancements of 2.5 instead of continuing patchworked tomes. Though, someone already did the work to put bane on items, and shiny pieces of armor make you better at all kinds of things so the logic inherent to bane damage there isn't really all that suspect. Combining bane into, oh I don't know, lets say 10 categories (see post #24- it is simply combining similar bane types- think of the half elves) then adding it to several items t8+ would also work.

Or something else entirely, just fix this and other things that have been broken or kind of crappy for years. S&R and PAD forum are filled with great ideas, reasonable requests, and less-than-great ideas with a seed of something good in them, yet the forums appear to function more as a trashcan for any ideas the playerbase has for all the change they effect. I cannot say for certain that fixing/changing the things that players would like to see done would stop or reverse the steady downward trend in server population, but it couldn't hurt.
 
The lack of bane damage on melees, aggression and damage reduction on tank gear is TOO DAMN HIGH!
 
donfolstar3 said:
Umm, similar to that item? I'm not sure if you're suggesting that everyone should "just go farm this rare item and constantly equip and unequip it to use this ability which aggros mobs" (you know, the classic FU kind of response) or showing that the ability is already in game so giving it to a class that lacks flavor is no big deal (the reasonable response).
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My point is that there is already a means for any class to identify mob bodytype. As you pointed out, it is less convenient than the Ranger/Bard skills, but I don't see that as a significant problem. I don't think giving Rogues a bodytype identification skill is going to give the class any "flavor." I would love to see the class get some love -- but in the long list of things the class could use, a skill to identify bodytype isn't even there for me.

I've also never noticed it being a particularly rare item - in fact it seems relatively common as far as Kaesora chest drops go. /shrug Maybe change the researcher's amulet clicky to also identify taxonomy so there is another option? (And yes I know that is also a classic FU response -- what with how long that questline is.)

donfolstar3 said:
Or something else entirely, just fix this and other things that have been broken or kind of crappy for years. S&R and PAD forum are filled with great ideas, reasonable requests, and less-than-great ideas with a seed of something good in them, yet the forums appear to function more as a trashcan for any ideas the playerbase has for all the change they effect.
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That's a very cynical viewpoint. I know for a fact that staff pays attention to both forums -- and it does lead to changes. For a volunteer dev force I find it impressive. To quote myself:
Haenir said:
One of the things I really dig about this server is the ongoing development. Sure there are things that are orphaned / misdeveloped / pick-your-problem, but overall there's a lot of good uniqueness to SoD. And I gotta think that some of that originated from player suggestion.
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Dinadass said:
Wow it's been 2.5 years
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I see what you did there...
 
i just consider the bane system a lost cause at this point, too worried it will just get deleted and leave melee dps doing less dps
 
Haenir said:
That's a very cynical viewpoint. I know for a fact that staff pays attention to both forums -- and it does lead to changes. For a volunteer dev force I find it impressive. To quote myself:
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Perhaps.

I decided to click around in S&R to see. Here's what I found:

-There are multiple simple question posts like this one or this one with no answer. Maybe the answer was given in PM or elsewhere though that doesn't really help the community. Magic 8ball of Cynicism say "uncertain, ask again".
-Sometimes people make really minor requests that go nowhere. Or apparent mistakes or maybe they weren't who knows. Magic 8ball of Cynicism reaches for his hidden stash of cigs but catches himself.
-Some guy keeps making really good posts (no, it isn't Grinkles) with ideas I think are good even if they'd be a bit of work. Magic 8ball of Cynicism says "reply hazy - buy glasses".
-Every now and again Tarhyl will be all over a thread like white on rice. Magic 8ball of Cynicism says "Thanks Tarhyl".
-I mentioned Grinkles and the Magic 8ball of Cynicism bit me. It doesn't even have a mouth.
-There are quite a few posts that players seem to like (shameless plug) that fly well below the radar. Then there is the ultimate example of ideas that are very old and very wanted and very ignored. The Magic 8ball of Cynicism says "see?"
-Jumping to PAD for a moment, this thread featured someone posting the code (which maybe works, I dunno) to fix a widely agreed upon problem/annoyance. Reading through it you get all kinds of server veteran's take on things. Magic 8ball of Cynicism is smoking again. He worked so hard to quit.

Well that was a fun waste of all of our time. I stand by my previous assertion that fixing stuff and making changes that players have been requesting for years may or may not stop or reverse the steady downward trend in server population, but it couldn't hurt. That downward trend is starting to get into the troubling zone with <100 clients (so maybe 2/3rd that many people) on during peak times some nights. Hopefully 2.5 will arrive on schedule and improve the situation, but Magic 8ball of Cynicism and me aren't too certain that a client upgrade that fixes some bugs is going to be a huge game changer if the game itself doesn't change. Maybe there are people out there who decided to quit playing SoD because they had to hit alt every now and again, but I am willing to wager 100 doll hairs that more people wanted to see things change but they didn't so instead of making long boring posts hoping for a game they really enjoy to get better they just quit logging on.
 
Just because every player thinks it's good doesn't make it good, not sure where this logic comes from. I mean every player wants a supreme too, right? I've seen firsthand the staff in action, and they can be amazing at making changes when they want to be. This leads me to believe that the reason all the posts mentioned above have gone 'unanswered' is that there is an issue with making that change, that may or may not be apparent to the players. Why they don't always respond to these posts may be your follow-up question, but to that I think there is another simple answer; and that is that they don't wish to argue about it with half-informed, half-irate, internet nerds with more time than they have.
 
AngryCow said:
Just because every player thinks it's good doesn't make it good, not sure where this logic comes from. I mean every player wants a supreme too, right? I've seen firsthand the staff in action, and they can be amazing at making changes when they want to be. This leads me to believe that the reason all the posts mentioned above have gone 'unanswered' is that there is an issue with making that change, that may or may not be apparent to the players. Why they don't always respond to these posts may be your follow-up question, but to that I think there is another simple answer; and that is that they don't wish to argue about it with half-informed, half-irate, internet nerds with more time than they have.
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This. While I agree that there are too many types of Bane, I also think that there are too many min/maxxers who worry too much about swapping gear around to get an extra 1 DPS per mob. If you were that worried, you'd be be complaining more that your rogues aren't using the right poisons (Molten Lead, anyone? AC debuff, stackable up to 3 rogues as long as druid archaic isn't on), then clicking it to do slow, cripple, stat debuff, mana drain, whatever, which is usually covered by other classes, but rogues can do 'em until the real stuff hits.

Hell, give rogues Bane poisons! Then everyone will be happy.
 
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