Backstab regarding Haste/Slow

the way i understand it, giantkin is enchanter dps, here i will have to agree with TM

Depending on who youre casting it on, as it is right now, it proportionally increases the dps of the person casted on, so if you cast it on your highest DPS melee, you will gain the most of it.

So yeah, its indeed chanter dps but its hard to calculate vs. (for example) enchanter nukes, because the DPS outcome is variable. ATK does affect rogue backstab max damage, doesnt it? So there actually is a good reason to cast it on a rogue.

If im wrong please correct me, always thought thats how it worked.
 
Monance said:
[...] If im wrong please correct me, always thought thats how it worked.
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You're wrong. It's 100% overhaste, so it should give you extra DPS equivalent to whomever-you-cast-on's base (un-hasted) DPS, however haste beyond 100% doesn't effect some combat ability timers. Rogues DPS is tied to the backstab ability timer.

Edit: Giantkin does also give you a proc, + ATK, + DEX, and - 40% aggro.
 
So yeah, basically the overhaste is only for "normal" melee attacking, and the special attacks are not benefitting from overhaste. The DEX and ATK bonuses DO affect rogue backstabs, so im betting you my plat, Rogues are making better use of this spell than Monks are.

Not sure about Rangers as ive never played one before and its a bit different here in SoD, but my simple assumption is, the higher DMG your special attacks will go, the bigger the actual DPS increase, therefore it should be: 1. Rogues 2. Rangers 3. Monks
 
Monance said:
[...] so im betting you my plat, Rogues are making better use of this spell than Monks are. [...]
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You'd need parses to compare your Rogues, Monks, and Rangers to determine which member of your raid crew makes the best Giantkin target, but I wouldn't put all my plat behind the Rogue.
 
all i got is like 400 plat right now so i might as well..

hehe

on a serious note, its hard to say withour parses, but im pretty sure ranger/rogue would battle it out amongst them 2, as i dont see monks on our raids ever outdps rogues (except for front only mobs), or outdps rangers (except on melee only mobs)

I can only assume rangers that are fighting with a bow also dont get the overhaste on "Range attack", and since theyre solely using the Skill to do damage, and the rogue WILL get the overhaste on normal melee attacks, theoretically it would be more effective on a rogue, but then again, with ranger's high average damage on Bow Shots, the extra attack might nullify this advantage or even exceed it.

But hey, this definately is just me guessing an outcome, that can only be measured by a specific parse, so dont bash me hehe
 
Monance said:
The DEX and ATK bonuses DO affect rogue backstabs, so im betting you my plat, Rogues are making better use of this spell than Monks are.
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No. The entire argument in the previous pages of this thread between TM and others concerns this very point, and how this assumption is incorrect.
 
If we can assume the Monk and the Rogue have the same haste pre giantkin and that the this haste is enough to cap the backstab/kick refresh, wouldn't dps increase be proportional to just the normal melee dps without the special attacks then add the dps gained by special attack from the +atk/dex?

This just asks what order classes are ranked in non-special melee dps, then, how great is the dps gained by backstab from just atk and dex

Monk is just an example in this case, it may be that the ranged dps increase from haste by a ranger is greater than the non-special melee dps increase of the rogue added with dex/atk dps increase of BS
 
Little bit of a sidebar but:

Manguadi said:
Also, something about giants being incredibly fast doesn't make a lot of sense. Giant myth is generally more concerned with a giant stepping on you or falling over nearby than it is with their blinding rate of attacks. Imagine if a giant tried to punch you in the face. Or scale if you're a dragon. To reiterate some of the alternatives:
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Strength of a giant + size of a human/elf/ogre/etc = you are made of fast.

This works because the strength is magical, and not dependent on muscle mass.

Go go RPG physics :toot:
 
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