Ancient drop rates and low-end respawn times

stope21

stope21

Dalayan Elder
As many of us are aware, respawn times have increased from what they've been in the past by about 50%. I believe the main reason for this was because the number of available (currently up) raid targets was starting to increase as more and more content was released. To balance this out the respawn times were increased so on average the # of available targets would remain the same as it was in the past prior to the release of new content.

Unfortunately, most of the new content was released for the mid-high end (PoV, PoN, PoW, ToT, IS, to name a few off the top of my head) and not a ton for the low end. The only adjustments to the low end were the 2 new nameds just released, which are definatly targets low end guilds should take advantage of. They also got a boost in player made items (shadow silk, deepmetal etc) which greatly compensates for less content and the release of the war which has drops aswell. Overall the balance is still fair for the low end in terms of possibilities/difficulty to obtain items to help progress.

Unfortunately, one effect that may have gone unnoticed was the ability for lower tier guilds to obtain ancients. They now face a 50% longer respawn, yet only have been given 2 new mobs from what i can recall that drop ancients. My suggestion to fix this would be maybe to increase the drop rates of ancients on mobs that can drop them now or add ancients to the loot tables of some existing mobs.

Also I'd like to note that this change is purely for the sake of the lower end people. All of my characters have their ancients. Furthermore if I needed them I could go duo mobs that drop them. The only benefit I'd get would be to be part of an even better server. This note has been made in order to flame proof this post, courtesy of Safiya
 
Not sure what it is you don't understand, maybe state that? I know ur not a computer w/ limited responses TM ;).
 
I think TM means if you can find the ancient-dropping mobs up to Duo, lower tier raiders can kill those same mobs for their ancients.
 
There are quite a few NPCs that drop ancient scrolls already. Most, I find up anytime I look for them. (DFS, DHK drake/wyvern minis, etc)
 
Mythryn said:
There are quite a few NPCs that drop ancient scrolls already. Most, I find up anytime I look for them. (DFS, DHK drake/wyvern minis, etc)
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This can also be said about mobs that drop relics, but thats not the issue i'm getting at. Without getting into excessively complex and wordy explanations: these mobs are not very good targets for low end raiders and I'm comparing things as a ratio. Also keep in mind you know more about these things as you have been on the server longer then newbie raiders, so you know what all to look for, how to look for it, and can overcome some barriers the newer players struggle more with.

The ratio:
# of mobs that drop relics has be increased greatly. # of mobs that drop ancients from what i have seen has increased very minimally.

x= # of mobs that drop relics
y= # of mobs that drop ancients
z= spawn time

More content is released, increasing the number of mobs that drops relics by 50%.
x(new)=x(old) times 1.5

Too many mobs are up at a time due to the increase in # of mobs, so we increased spawn times by 50%.

z(new)=z(old) times 1.5

THEREFORE:
x(new) / z(new) = x(old) / z(old)
:toot:-----------------THIS IS STILL EVEN-------- :toot:

The effect on ancients:
2 new mobs that drop ancients are added, lets exaggerate and say this increased the number of mobs that drops ancients by 10% which it is likely less.

y(new)=y(old)x1.1

THEREFORE:
y(new) / z(new) IS NOT EQUAL TO y(old) / z(old) it instead is a lesser ratio.
:toot:--------------THIS IS NOT THE SAME-------------- :toot:
 
All I'm trying to do is look out for the little guys. Like i said, i have no personal gain in this matter. The balance is making it more difficult for the newer raiders to get their ancients. If this was an intended effect so be it. I honestly think this was overlooked when spawn times were increased.
 
Why the fuck did you bring my name into this silly thread?

You deserved the flaming you got on the other thread.....so what...you thought you would start a new one and just toss my name into it?

Thats really clever. :psyduck:


Jose is right anyway, a TON of easy ancient droppers are typically left all alone so I dont get why you made this post at all. To be a good Samaritan? Cause all the people having trouble getting ancients /tell you in game and dont post here and you just had to make it right? Did you even bother looking for ancient dropping mobs that were up before posting this bullshit? I can pretty much say with certainty, that you didnt. Cause you would notice...THERE IS ALOT UP.

You can throw all the x/y/z bullshit into this thread as you want, it dosent make you right.

Next time you make a dumb thread, leave my name the hell out of it ok.


PS. If you still need to know why a fast casting root with a nice resist mod may be useful on occasion, send me a tell in game so I can lol at you in private and we can keep this crap off the forums mmmmkay.
 
The low tiers have already had a lot of new content added, as well as current content's drops made NO DROP so they won't be farmed as much. Also I wouldn't put a lot of PoN and PoW at "mid-high end" either.

As nice as it is to "be the nice guy", if it means you don't know as much about the subject at hand you shouldn't attempt it. And that includes any reasons for extending raid timers.
 
Syalara said:
words words words
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There is no point in trying to reason with you. Learn to understand that some times people just disagree on things. Don't compulsively play the devils advocate on every issue.

P.S. Thats nice that you can think of when you'd use that spell in 2 situations. Does that make it a worthwhile spell? I don't think so. I will give it the benefit that you can make xp while obtaining the spell which does make the time spent obtaining it more worthwhile, but my stance is still that the spell is lack luster. If its not meant to be but something you will use in 1 or 2 situations, so be it. But even in these situations is it going to be that big a deal? I really doubt it.

Allielyn said:
The low tiers have already had a lot of new content added, as well as current content's drops made NO DROP so they won't be farmed as much. Also I wouldn't put a lot of PoN and PoW at "mid-high end" either.

As nice as it is to "be the nice guy", if it means you don't know as much about the subject at hand you shouldn't attempt it. And that includes any reasons for extending raid timers.
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I never said there wasn't new content, or a problem with high end farmers farming lower zones. I don't know where you got that from or why you thought that was my argument. As to where I put PoN/PoW as mid-high end, this was a blanket statement which is otherwise irrelevant. What is relevant is that the mobs drop relics and they are contributing to the larger amount of content put forth which was balanced by the longer respawn times.

I also don't know how you interpreted that I want to extend raid timers.

Re-read my post and maybe you will understand what I'm talking about. Its kind of hard to say someone doesn't know what they're talking about when your examples are non sequitur.
 
stope21 said:
Don't compulsively play the devils advocate on every issue.
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I do not disagree with you just to disagree with you. I disagree with you because I think you type new threads with only half a clue at best. This thread is a perfect example.

There is no shortage of ancient dropping mobs up at any time. You are not the spokesman for people without ancients.....were you, then i'd expect you to have dome more research in the area before letting your fingers get carried away on the keyboard.

And FYI, I most likely would not have bothered with you here if you just kept my name out of this thread. But you thought you would be kewl and try and toss a jibe my way. Good thinking. :toot:
 
I'm. . . . floored as to how you could completely misunderstand EVERY SINGLE POINT I made. And then dismiss them arbitrarily since in your weird interpretation they didn't make sense. But then, I HAVE been accused of failing at "communicative english" so I'll try again.

PoW and PoN were perfect examples of your flawed reasoning: they are not in fact mid-high tier content, they are actually included in the low tier content that you argue hasn't had a lot of love. The fact that they were included in your "blanket example" just shows how you are a) exaggerating and b) generalizing. And it hurts your argument and makes you look misinformed. Hardly "Irrelevant" to the argument at hand.

stope21 said:
I never said there wasn't new content, or a problem with high end farmers farming lower zones. I don't know where you got that from or why you thought that was my argument.
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I never said a thing about farming, nor did I accuse you of ignoring new content? :psyduck: I was indicating that you're missing/are unaware of additional content.
 
Allielyn said:
PoW and PoN were perfect examples of your flawed reasoning: they are not in fact mid-high tier content, they are actually included in the low tier content that you argue hasn't had a lot of love.
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This is about ancients, not about what zones qualify as what teir. What teir anything is has nothing to do with anything what so ever in this post. Please refer to the title of this post (Ancient drop rates and low-end respawn times). Wether you term some content low end, mid, high teir, whatever it does not matter.

The fact of the matter is I havn't seen a lot of mobs added that drop ancients, but the respawn time has gone up significantly for them. Its as simple as follows: Small increase in # of mobs that drop ancients, Large increase in respawn time of these mobs. With all other factors equal what does that equate? More difficulty for the lower end getting ancients.

Wether there are a certain number of mobs up or not is also irrelevant to the argument i'm making. If the devs feel there is still plenty opportunity for lower teir players to get ancients, then I support their decision. Like I said before, I'm bringing up the point that overall it has become harder to farm ancients.

If you don't agree with me, here is how you can prove me wrong!!!!!!!: You tell me how the # of mobs has increased by 50%, as spawn times have increased by 50%, that drop ancients. Do so, i'll admit defeat and you will have done a good job of educating me. (Also don't give me this crap that ED maps can drop ancients -- and this counts, or any other similiar grossly higher teir encounter that drops ancients that lil guys won't be able to defeat).

The fact of the matter is, ancients are harder for newer players to obtain. If this effect was intended then thats awsome, I support the decision. If not, then I think something should be done to help the lil guys out.
 
Spawn times for all ancient dropping mobs were not increased by 50%. You are not aware of the number of mobs that actually drop ancients. Though there were a few ancient dropping mobs whose timer WAS increased, there were also a number of ancient dropping mobs implemented newly, as well as some whose loot went NO DROP to facilitate lower guild farming of said content.

In addition, you are making the dubious assumption that the expansion of content available also increased the amount of relic dropping content. It might be news to you that not all raid zones have a good chance (or even a chance!) to drop relics. And that some entry level raid zones might have a chance to drop ancients (see PoT and PoN

If you want to prove a point, you need to give specifics. Give a comprehensive and educated list of ancient dropping mobs and show me how most if not all of them actually had their spawntimers extended. In that list you might also want to include mobs known to drop both relics and ancients. Note which ones are new or newly flagged [no drop]. I'm not saying there isn't at all a problem, but your reasoning and logic has been lacking.
 
So off the top of my head, ancient dropping mobs.

All WW dragons

Kloie

Coralsha guy in faentharc

Greyclaw

Ravenwing

Numerous stormkeep mobs. Including King's bodyguards, Kragos, etc

Gnokk (I seem to remember this, could be wrong)

Lasanth the alchemist

Assasin rat (zyk, forget his entire name)

Lenny

Lots of named in DFS

East side dhk dragons (at least 2, confirmed)

Lavascale? y/n?

Lotd? y/n?

Faded dragon shades (DN)
Dark boned dragons (DN)

Bladelord (MielC)

Feel free to add to this guys, I don't know all of them, just one's I've seen ancients dropping off of, and a few reasonable guesses.

The very big difference I notice between ancient and relic dropping mobs being Ancients have a chance of dropping off of fairly common mobs, such as the faded and dark boned dragons in dn. Which makes sense, though another set of mobs like that in another zone dropping them would be nice. Entry level there are plenty of places to get them IF you raid lower tiers. Without doing so they become rapidly less plentiful, and less realistic to do with a group. Pon having them is nice, as if you don't have one at that tier it may be difficult to go pick one up yourself still (one of the places I at least was unaware of). For example I would expect an entry level 65 group to have some difficulty with DHK, Greyclaw, DFS, etc, at least without 2 or 3 ringers. Dn dragons appear to be the best and easiest bet. Though purportedly they have a low droprate.
 
robopirateninja said:
You can get ancients from ED tmaps, which is kinda lol
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Hah! that is lol. They should drop relics, if anything. I wouldn't mind seeing ancients on VD tmaps though. They're certainly harder than a lot of ancient dropping mobs I know of.
 
Allielyn said:
Hah! that is lol. They should drop relics, if anything. I wouldn't mind seeing ancients on VD tmaps though. They're certainly harder than a lot of ancient dropping mobs I know of.
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ED's drop relics, saw that happen.
 
Yeah that is a good point not mentioned here, many of the low level relic dropping mobs have chances to drop ancients, too.

Also, Lord Ravenwing can drop ancients!
 
EDHK has three mobs that can drop ancients (confirmed), not sure about Firk.

Zaklash can drop them too.
 
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