AA Scaling

[Dimmi]

It was mentioned a few times in the necro/FC thread that some AA abilities become pretty well obsolete on several classes.

Would like to discuss this and bring up suggestions for possible things to make them do stuff again.

I don't know other classes very well, so I'm gonna go ahead and throw this out for the first pitch:

Rogue - Lethal Strike:

50 minute cooldown once applicable AAs are purchased and guarentees an assassination on the next valid assassination target (lvl 54 or below).

The only use I've seen out of this is turning 2-pulls into 1-pulls in low low low tier 65 xp zones, and for farming things like Coldstone in EW or names in Crystal Caverns. There are a few raid/6-man encounters where it could be used to kill one of many adds per rogue present. As memory serves these adds are otherwise ignored or they have wizard special things done to them anyway. Doesn't even work doing xp in Everchill (unless you want to smash a light blue pet). Assassination itself at higher tiers is marginally useful as most mobs are too high lvl to be assassinated, and in lower lvl mobs that CAN be, a normal backstab would probably kill them anyway.

My suggestion would be to make Lethal Strike guarentee a hit and critical backstab on the next non-valid assassination target when activated. Not game-breaking since it's only once an hour, but would be useful during curses on raids or for saving a healer's life in xp groups etc.

And a side-request for marza to laugh and redicule and call me names about: Could Escape be made to clear DoTs the rogue has put on mobs? I realize that FD doesn't do this but classes with FD can flop again, escape is 1/50 min at best.

OK DALAYA what AA abilities did you love the first time you bought them that you can't/don't get any use out of anymore?

 

[Silosobi]

I would really be in favor of changing AAs across the board to scale somewhat. Its fine to have AAs more powerful when you get them than way down the line, but the fact that 80% of activated AAs are obsolete by even mid raid tiers is really sad, and tends to make characters and the game less interactive.

eg: as a wizard it was cool that if I was attentive and clicked life fire right before I would otherwise died, it was a significant help to my raid and could actually make a difference. There is the payoff that maybe DI would go off or other things would save me, but it was worth if for that big chunk of instant damage. This was the case at t1, and by t3 I still wanted it to be useful but it hardly was. By t7-8 it was pretty much useless, and all my character has done since then is cast moon comet and concussion (obviously an oversimplification, but activated AAs DO add flavor and fun to the game)

Activated AAs really help make the game fun and interesting (especially for those classes that are otherwise really one dimensional).

Here are my suggestions for wizard AAs:

Life Fire:
Kills the wizard, doing PBAE damage equal to the wizard's total hit points. The PBAE is fire based with a -100 resist adjust, and benefits from everything a normal spell would, except that it cannot crit/ult/primal.

Fury of the Ashes:
Improves Life Fire, increasing its damage by 50% and making it unresistable (or up adjust to -200 if its hard to make a fire spell unresistable).

With both AAs done, a t1 wizard would do ~6k damage. Solosolki would do ~30k damage. 6k is actually a much larger chunk of a t1 mob's hp than 30k is to a t13 mob. I'm still not sure where I would use it, but with that much damage I would certainly look for places it might be useful, and I'm sure a lot more wizard's would find use for this spell through the raid tiers.


Mana Burn:
Lets just change this one, its really bad and not even used at low tiers except on select fights that are just silly to begin with.

Destructive Outburst:
Instant
15 min recast
Duration: 18sec
Places a 3 tic buff on the wizard which increases their spell crit rate to 100% for the duration. I actually tried to think of something that would benefit low tier wizards more than us at the top, since low tier wizards are underpowered. Maybe this sounds OP, but the fact of the matter is that on raids I have ~70% spell crit with AoD. An endgame wizard gets 18 sec of + ~30% damage, whereas a lower tier wizard would get 18 sec of + ~80% damage.

Optionally, just have it activate and guarantee the next spell is a crit or ult or primal depending on how powerful we want it.

 

[Dinadass]

Activated AAs really help make the game fun and interesting (especially for those classes that are otherwise really one dimensional).

Yeah monks are pretty lacking in the activated AA department, despite being a one dimensional class. Purify Body is the only activated ability we get at all, and it's fine for what it is but it definitely doesn't add anything fun or interesting to the class.

We do have Skill of Hand and Discipline of the Body that give our special attacks more damage and a higher chance of triggering their special effect, but it would be nice if those were changed somehow. 99% of the time, monks just mash Flying Kick when it's up because there's nothing else for us to do (despite how insignificant the actual damage is for most monks compared to their melee DPS). The ability of the attacks to occasionally interrupt/root/whatever sounds cool but in most situations is pretty useless. If you're fighting something that you know will need to be interrupted, most people will not be relying on a monk special attack that has a chance to do so, they'll find a much more reliable method.

If those AAs could be changed to an activated ability that greatly increased the effectiveness of our special attacks that would be pretty cool. Make them do a lot more damage for a while, greatly reduce their cooldown, allow them to hit multiple targets, whatever.

 

[Titanas]

Destructive Outburst:
Instant
15 min recast
Duration: 18sec
Places a 3 tic buff on the wizard which increases their spell crit rate to 100% for the duration. I actually tried to think of something that would benefit low tier wizards more than us at the top, since low tier wizards are underpowered. I know this sounds OP, but the fact of the matter is that on raids I have ~70% spell crit on raids with AoD. An endgame wizard gets 18 sec of + ~30% damage."
Solosolki

Make this Spell 100% to crit for 2 spells.
This would be less effective for a high level wiz considering they are more likely to have higher crit chance then a fresh 65.

 

[Silosobi]

That would be a fine option to me, it also equalizes the potential benefit of CSI between the tiers.

 

[jumbers]

If those AAs could be changed to an activated ability that greatly increased the effectiveness of our special attacks that would be pretty cool. Make them do a lot more damage for a while, greatly reduce their cooldown, allow them to hit multiple targets, whatever.

Unfortunately AAs can't be changed from passive to active or vice versa, just the underlying effects of the AAs can be changed.

 

[whelm]

Dimmi, good idea for Lethal Strike. I can't see any reason to not make it an assassination for mobs <54 and a guaranteed crit for >54. This seems like a good way to give rogues the ability to manage their damage a bit when needed and to give higher tiered rogues a reason to use this AA again.

 

[Silosobi]

Swarm pets are shared by a lot of classes, but they get pretty trivial pretty quick and also can cause lag issues when a bunch of people summon them at the same time.

What if we change the swarm pets to just summon 1 mob, unique to each class, having some special abilities besides or instead of meele damage, and have them scale in some way to the character.

Wizard:
Summons a small Dragon Shade (low hp, magic immune, low meele dps) which procs Conflagration. Rank two adds a Thunderclap proc. Rank three adds an Ice Shock proc. Spell damage scales with the wizard's focuses and tomes.

Shaman:
Summons a Spirit (low hp, magic immune, moderate meele dps) which procs Greater Circle of healing. Additional ranks give 30/50% overhaste. Healing scales with shaman's tomes/focuses/etc.

Necromancer:
Summons a Zombie (moderate hp, low resist, high meele dps) which explodes upon death, dealing 2000/3000/3500 PBAE disease damage. Damage scales with necro's tomes/focuses/etc

Mage:
Summons an earth elemental (high hp, high ac, high resists, high meele dps) which procs Patriarch's Wrath. Additional ranks double/tripple the proc rate. Pet has HP = mage+2000, AC = mage+500, and resists = mage+50/all

Those specific abilities came to mind, but it could really be anything. The idea is swarm pets with a bit more of a niche than meele dps, and just 1 for less lag.

 

[Zurkka1]

Swarm pets are shared by a lot of classes, but they get pretty trivial pretty quick and also can cause lag issues when a bunch of people summon them at the same time.

What if we change the swarm pets to just summon 1 mob, unique to each class, having some special abilities besides or instead of meele damage, and have them scale in some way to the character.

Wizard:
Summons a small Dragon Shade (low hp, magic immune, low meele dps) which procs Conflagration. Rank two adds a Thunderclap proc. Rank three adds an Ice Shock proc. Spell damage scales with the wizard's focuses and tomes.

Shaman:
Summons a Spirit (low hp, magic immune, moderate meele dps) which procs Greater Circle of healing. Additional ranks give 30/50% overhaste. Healing scales with shaman's tomes/focuses/etc.

Necromancer:
Summons a Zombie (moderate hp, low resist, high meele dps) which explodes upon death, dealing 2000/3000/3500 PBAE disease damage. Damage scales with necro's tomes/focuses/etc

Mage:
Summons an earth elemental (high hp, high ac, high resists, high meele dps) which procs Patriarch's Wrath. Additional ranks double/tripple the proc rate. Pet has HP = mage+2000, AC = mage+500, and resists = mage+50/all

Those specific abilities came to mind, but it could really be anything. The idea is swarm pets with a bit more of a niche than meele dps, and just 1 for less lag.

support this swarm pets are worthless and terrible

 

[Brimztone]

What Mage Host of the Elements is awesome megadeeps.

But yeah it would be really awesome if they scaled to the caster's DPS and were more like Mage Runic 1, but changed for each class.

 

[Draeos]

Rogue - Lethal Strike:

50 minute cooldown once applicable AAs are purchased and guarentees an assassination on the next valid assassination target (lvl 54 or below).

The only use I've seen out of this is turning 2-pulls into 1-pulls in low low low tier 65 xp zones, and for farming things like Coldstone in EW or names in Crystal Caverns. There are a few raid/6-man encounters where it could be used to kill one of many adds per rogue present. As memory serves these adds are otherwise ignored or they have wizard special things done to them anyway. Doesn't even work doing xp in Everchill (unless you want to smash a light blue pet). Assassination itself at higher tiers is marginally useful as most mobs are too high lvl to be assassinated, and in lower lvl mobs that CAN be, a normal backstab would probably kill them anyway.

My suggestion would be to make Lethal Strike guarentee a hit and critical backstab on the next non-valid assassination target when activated. Not game-breaking since it's only once an hour, but would be useful during curses on raids or for saving a healer's life in xp groups etc.

And a side-request for marza to laugh and redicule and call me names about: Could Escape be made to clear DoTs the rogue has put on mobs? I realize that FD doesn't do this but classes with FD can flop again, escape is 1/50 min at best.

yes please

 

[Otcho]

If you are going to remake lethal strike to have a more constant use I would like to see something like that guaranteed crit backstab. However the cooldown is atrociously long. Decreasing that and maybe giving it an effect like healing you for the damage done would give you options for the bad times where you are going to die and there is nothing you can do because your sraen banner is down and your healer is on a bacon quest.

Having no oh shit button on a rogue is awful.

 

[Boehm]

Dimmi, Zaela once mentioned doing something for rogues using a stamina mechanic. Maybe you could send her a tell about it.

 

[Zaela]

Considering all the resistance from Warriors and Beastlords toward losing whatever one or two genuinely useful styles they have in favor of a completely new endurance system, I don't have a whole lot of faith in the concept any more. Plus I couldn't think of anything good to do with it for rogues.

But that is for another thread, maybe.

 

[Draeos]

Keep some kind of form of stance 5 11 and 9, Being low aggro, Spell dodge, and nimble, (Spell dodge and nimble are nice but hell if it made things more fun whatever delete them but non aggro stance is kinda a must in some situations) I would support any change that would make the class more dynamic.

 

[Grizz]

I love the Rogue AA and Swarm pet's idea , would be awesome to see these implemented.

As it is Lethal strike stay's on my second page of my hotkey's never used 99% of the time unless like dimmi said your in some low tier zone, ex: mielc or something of the sort.

The swarm pet's, who wouldn't want something that doesn't die almost immediatly on something with a little challenge to it and less lag when activated.

Just my 2cp's.

 

[Otcho]

Considering all the resistance from Warriors and Beastlords toward losing whatever one or two genuinely useful styles they have in favor of a completely new endurance system, I don't have a whole lot of faith in the concept any more. Plus I couldn't think of anything good to do with it for rogues.

But that is for another thread, maybe.

As the only rogue who matters feel free to change this opinion because our class is currently terrible. We have a plethora of abilities which are basically useless, we have two buttons we push and basically 2 stances past a certain tier. Okay maybe we have 4 stances but NOAGGRO and spelldodge have stopped being relevant for a long time. We cannot do any frontal dps, we have the worst ability to solo of any class while having a restriction on what weapons we can use and we gain a small amount of dps for all these sacrifices. Reliance on positioning in fights fucks us more than any other class. Oh and we are still completely destroyed by any content that actually casts a slow.

I would love to have a stamina remake like warriors. Please.

 

[Malicre65]

Swarm pets are shared by a lot of classes, but they get pretty trivial pretty quick and also can cause lag issues when a bunch of people summon them at the same time.

What if we change the swarm pets to just summon 1 mob, unique to each class, having some special abilities besides or instead of meele damage, and have them scale in some way to the character.

Wizard:
Summons a small Dragon Shade (low hp, magic immune, low meele dps) which procs Conflagration. Rank two adds a Thunderclap proc. Rank three adds an Ice Shock proc. Spell damage scales with the wizard's focuses and tomes.

Shaman:
Summons a Spirit (low hp, magic immune, moderate meele dps) which procs Greater Circle of healing. Additional ranks give 30/50% overhaste. Healing scales with shaman's tomes/focuses/etc.

Necromancer:
Summons a Zombie (moderate hp, low resist, high meele dps) which explodes upon death, dealing 2000/3000/3500 PBAE disease damage. Damage scales with necro's tomes/focuses/etc

Mage:
Summons an earth elemental (high hp, high ac, high resists, high meele dps) which procs Patriarch's Wrath. Additional ranks double/tripple the proc rate. Pet has HP = mage+2000, AC = mage+500, and resists = mage+50/all

Those specific abilities came to mind, but it could really be anything. The idea is swarm pets with a bit more of a niche than meele dps, and just 1 for less lag.

A+ could not agree more, As a mage my AA pets with a 20 min cooldown end up going on trash mobs most of the time over bosses because they die in 2 secs to the AE's that 90% of higher end fights have.

 

[Dinadass]

Considering all the resistance from Warriors and Beastlords toward losing whatever one or two genuinely useful styles they have in favor of a completely new endurance system, I don't have a whole lot of faith in the concept any more. Plus I couldn't think of anything good to do with it for rogues.

But that is for another thread, maybe.

The overall reaction to the warrior changes has been extremely positive, hasn't it? Every single warrior I've talked to or played with has liked it, it was a very good thing.

Monks would love something similar. Half our stances are not used because they are worse than /s 2, and most combat is extremely boring just like it used to be for warriors.

Or are you referring to a completely different endurance revamp?

 

[Titanas]

Great I dea I like this However As you mentioned I think they should be really good aa's that do not scale as well. Giving lower end casters the bump in effectiveness.